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D Rose close to signing with the Cavs
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Welpee
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7/20/2017  3:18 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:I'll admit, the anti-D Rose people were right last year. He had his moments and considering it was a low risk/high reward move I was OK with deal. But they warned us he would not be good for us and they were right. However, we really couldn't go into last season with pretty much the same squad as the previous season.

It was a medium risk, no reward move. It lead to us signing Noah. Grant would be our top PG now and would fit nicely with our long-term plans.
Actually Lopez was the big loss. Grant showed no progress over his rookie season so if he would be our top PG we would be in big trouble. Phil didn't have to sign Noah just because we got Rose so I wouldn't attached that deal to getting Rose. There were other cheaper bigs we could've pursued. Phil just got suckered into signing Noah. THAT deal was high risk.
AUTOADVERT
JesseDark
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7/20/2017  3:54 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:D. Rose would actually be good there. He can really bolster that 2nd unit when Kyrie is on the bench

Still don't get how terrible defense doesn't matter.

That was my thought too, his strength is Driving to the basket and a below average defender. Don't see how he helps them defeat the Warriors.

Bring back dee-fense
knicks1248
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7/20/2017  4:26 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/20/2017  4:31 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:D. Rose would actually be good there. He can really bolster that 2nd unit when Kyrie is on the bench

Still don't get how terrible defense doesn't matter.

They have enough defenders to actually protect Rose

5-4 is 5 on 4, no matter how good your 4 are.

He's not that good of an offensive player anymore.

dude most NBA players are not greatd defenders, and the league has catered its rule to the offensive side of the ball. To me, it's all about the defensive system that matters more.

His individual negative effect on the Knicks, more pronounced than most of his teammates, suggests, even relatively, it matters.

The knick defense is bad as a team.

If ROSE is such a horrible defender, how come he was one some of the best defensive teams when he was with bulls and thibs was the coach?

the dude just avoids contact at all cost, that's why he goes under screens so much

ES
Welpee
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7/20/2017  4:35 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:D. Rose would actually be good there. He can really bolster that 2nd unit when Kyrie is on the bench

Still don't get how terrible defense doesn't matter.

They have enough defenders to actually protect Rose

5-4 is 5 on 4, no matter how good your 4 are.

He's not that good of an offensive player anymore.

dude most NBA players are not greatd defenders, and the league has catered its rule to the offensive side of the ball. To me, it's all about the defensive system that matters more.

His individual negative effect on the Knicks, more pronounced than most of his teammates, suggests, even relatively, it matters.

The knick defense is bad as a team.

If ROSE is such a horrible defender, how come he was one some of the best defensive teams when he was with bulls and thibs was the coach?

the dude just avoids contact at all cost, that's why he goes under screens so much

The Knicks had a rep for playing great defense and Allan Houston wasn't considered a good defender. Great defensive teams can cover for a weak link.
Knickoftime
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7/20/2017  4:46 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:D. Rose would actually be good there. He can really bolster that 2nd unit when Kyrie is on the bench

Still don't get how terrible defense doesn't matter.

They have enough defenders to actually protect Rose

5-4 is 5 on 4, no matter how good your 4 are.

He's not that good of an offensive player anymore.

dude most NBA players are not greatd defenders, and the league has catered its rule to the offensive side of the ball. To me, it's all about the defensive system that matters more.

His individual negative effect on the Knicks, more pronounced than most of his teammates, suggests, even relatively, it matters.

The knick defense is bad as a team.

If ROSE is such a horrible defender, how come he was one some of the best defensive teams when he was with bulls and thibs was the coach?

He always was one of the worst defenders on those teams... 2 major surgeries ago

the dude just avoids contact at all cost, that's why he goes under screens so much

Are you predicting the reason why he's so awful is changing?

Bonn1997
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7/20/2017  4:53 PM
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:I'll admit, the anti-D Rose people were right last year. He had his moments and considering it was a low risk/high reward move I was OK with deal. But they warned us he would not be good for us and they were right. However, we really couldn't go into last season with pretty much the same squad as the previous season.

It was a medium risk, no reward move. It lead to us signing Noah. Grant would be our top PG now and would fit nicely with our long-term plans.
Actually Lopez was the big loss. Grant showed no progress over his rookie season so if he would be our top PG we would be in big trouble. Phil didn't have to sign Noah just because we got Rose so I wouldn't attached that deal to getting Rose. There were other cheaper bigs we could've pursued. Phil just got suckered into signing Noah. THAT deal was high risk.

No progress? He doesn't play much but he went from 22 to 37% 3 point shooting and 78 to 89% from the line.
knicks1248
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7/20/2017  5:02 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:D. Rose would actually be good there. He can really bolster that 2nd unit when Kyrie is on the bench

Still don't get how terrible defense doesn't matter.

They have enough defenders to actually protect Rose

5-4 is 5 on 4, no matter how good your 4 are.

He's not that good of an offensive player anymore.

dude most NBA players are not greatd defenders, and the league has catered its rule to the offensive side of the ball. To me, it's all about the defensive system that matters more.

His individual negative effect on the Knicks, more pronounced than most of his teammates, suggests, even relatively, it matters.

The knick defense is bad as a team.

If ROSE is such a horrible defender, how come he was one some of the best defensive teams when he was with bulls and thibs was the coach?

He always was one of the worst defenders on those teams... 2 major surgeries ago

the dude just avoids contact at all cost, that's why he goes under screens so much

Are you predicting the reason why he's so awful is changing?


Hellllll no, he avoids contact now more then ever before, and that's for fear of getting hurt. But most players with a scoring mentality hardly played hard defensively.

steph curry is not and will never be considered a good defender, despite getting a few steals here and there.

the knicks last season had no solid defenders other than lee, KP gets a few blocks, but he falls for pump fakes far to often.

ES
meloshouldgo
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7/20/2017  5:41 PM
Lakers and Cavs in a bidding was for D Rose. Acc. to Cornheiser on sports center.
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Welpee
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7/20/2017  6:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/20/2017  6:31 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:I'll admit, the anti-D Rose people were right last year. He had his moments and considering it was a low risk/high reward move I was OK with deal. But they warned us he would not be good for us and they were right. However, we really couldn't go into last season with pretty much the same squad as the previous season.

It was a medium risk, no reward move. It lead to us signing Noah. Grant would be our top PG now and would fit nicely with our long-term plans.
Actually Lopez was the big loss. Grant showed no progress over his rookie season so if he would be our top PG we would be in big trouble. Phil didn't have to sign Noah just because we got Rose so I wouldn't attached that deal to getting Rose. There were other cheaper bigs we could've pursued. Phil just got suckered into signing Noah. THAT deal was high risk.

No progress? He doesn't play much but he went from 22 to 37% 3 point shooting and 78 to 89% from the line.
Wow, hitting .5 more 3 pointers per game is huge! He should've received votes for most improved player based on that!
Bonn1997
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7/20/2017  6:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/20/2017  6:33 PM
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:I'll admit, the anti-D Rose people were right last year. He had his moments and considering it was a low risk/high reward move I was OK with deal. But they warned us he would not be good for us and they were right. However, we really couldn't go into last season with pretty much the same squad as the previous season.

It was a medium risk, no reward move. It lead to us signing Noah. Grant would be our top PG now and would fit nicely with our long-term plans.
Actually Lopez was the big loss. Grant showed no progress over his rookie season so if he would be our top PG we would be in big trouble. Phil didn't have to sign Noah just because we got Rose so I wouldn't attached that deal to getting Rose. There were other cheaper bigs we could've pursued. Phil just got suckered into signing Noah. THAT deal was high risk.

No progress? He doesn't play much but he went from 22 to 37% 3 point shooting and 78 to 89% from the line.
Wow, hitting .5 more 3 pointers per game is huge! He should've received votes for most improved player based on that!

Having limited PT and few possessions is not the same thing as making no progress. They're two entirely different issues. Grant would be a nice piece to have moving forward.
And for the record, how can you dismiss 0.5 3s? How many games are decided by 1 to 2 points?
Welpee
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7/20/2017  6:31 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:I'll admit, the anti-D Rose people were right last year. He had his moments and considering it was a low risk/high reward move I was OK with deal. But they warned us he would not be good for us and they were right. However, we really couldn't go into last season with pretty much the same squad as the previous season.

It was a medium risk, no reward move. It lead to us signing Noah. Grant would be our top PG now and would fit nicely with our long-term plans.
Actually Lopez was the big loss. Grant showed no progress over his rookie season so if he would be our top PG we would be in big trouble. Phil didn't have to sign Noah just because we got Rose so I wouldn't attached that deal to getting Rose. There were other cheaper bigs we could've pursued. Phil just got suckered into signing Noah. THAT deal was high risk.

No progress? He doesn't play much but he went from 22 to 37% 3 point shooting and 78 to 89% from the line.
Wow, hitting .5 more 3 pointers per game is huge! He should've received votes for most improved player based on that!

Having limited PT and few possessions is not the same thing as making no progress. They're two entirely different issues. Grant would be a nice piece to have moving forward.
His ppg, assists, rebs, steals, and minutes were virtually identical to his rookie season. I'm sure the next post will be some advanced stat showing his productivity is similar to Westbrook's.
Bonn1997
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7/20/2017  6:41 PM
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:I'll admit, the anti-D Rose people were right last year. He had his moments and considering it was a low risk/high reward move I was OK with deal. But they warned us he would not be good for us and they were right. However, we really couldn't go into last season with pretty much the same squad as the previous season.

It was a medium risk, no reward move. It lead to us signing Noah. Grant would be our top PG now and would fit nicely with our long-term plans.
Actually Lopez was the big loss. Grant showed no progress over his rookie season so if he would be our top PG we would be in big trouble. Phil didn't have to sign Noah just because we got Rose so I wouldn't attached that deal to getting Rose. There were other cheaper bigs we could've pursued. Phil just got suckered into signing Noah. THAT deal was high risk.

No progress? He doesn't play much but he went from 22 to 37% 3 point shooting and 78 to 89% from the line.
Wow, hitting .5 more 3 pointers per game is huge! He should've received votes for most improved player based on that!

Having limited PT and few possessions is not the same thing as making no progress. They're two entirely different issues. Grant would be a nice piece to have moving forward.
His ppg, assists, rebs, steals, and minutes were virtually identical to his rookie season. I'm sure the next post will be some advanced stat showing his productivity is similar to Westbrook's.

Come on. You're not even trying to be serious. Grant is on a low cost rookie contract and would be a nice piece. You don't want players who have potential and are on rookie contracts on our roster?
And I don't know how you can dismiss 0.5 more 3s. How many games are decided by 1 to 2 points? Becoming a 3 point threat will impact the offense the entire game even if you're not shooting the ball too obviously.
Grant showed meaningful improvements in 3 point shooting, FT shooting, and turnovers. That's enough that cumulatively it had a large impact and there was a night and day difference in his advanced stats. Again, he had only a small sample of playing time and we wouldn't really know what we were getting if he had a bigger role. He's just a low cost player with significant potential. We need as many of that type as possible.
Welpee
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7/20/2017  6:49 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:I'll admit, the anti-D Rose people were right last year. He had his moments and considering it was a low risk/high reward move I was OK with deal. But they warned us he would not be good for us and they were right. However, we really couldn't go into last season with pretty much the same squad as the previous season.

It was a medium risk, no reward move. It lead to us signing Noah. Grant would be our top PG now and would fit nicely with our long-term plans.
Actually Lopez was the big loss. Grant showed no progress over his rookie season so if he would be our top PG we would be in big trouble. Phil didn't have to sign Noah just because we got Rose so I wouldn't attached that deal to getting Rose. There were other cheaper bigs we could've pursued. Phil just got suckered into signing Noah. THAT deal was high risk.

No progress? He doesn't play much but he went from 22 to 37% 3 point shooting and 78 to 89% from the line.
Wow, hitting .5 more 3 pointers per game is huge! He should've received votes for most improved player based on that!

Having limited PT and few possessions is not the same thing as making no progress. They're two entirely different issues. Grant would be a nice piece to have moving forward.
His ppg, assists, rebs, steals, and minutes were virtually identical to his rookie season. I'm sure the next post will be some advanced stat showing his productivity is similar to Westbrook's.

Come on. You're not even trying to be serious. Grant is on a low cost rookie contract and would be a nice piece. You don't want players who have potential and are on rookie contracts on our roster?
And I don't know how you can dismiss 0.5 more 3s. How many games are decided by 1 to 2 points? Becoming a 3 point threat will impact the offense the entire game even if you're not shooting the ball too obviously.
Grant showed meaningful improvements in 3 point shooting, FT shooting, and turnovers. That's enough that cumulatively it had a large impact and there was a night and day difference in his advanced stats. Again, he had only a small sample of playing time and we wouldn't really know what we were getting if he had a bigger role. He's just a low cost player with significant potential. We need as many of that type as possible.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having Grant. But he has shown nothing to indicate he is worthy of being the starting PG on any team in the NBA yet. If he were here and he's our best options at that position, we are in major trouble.
Bonn1997
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7/20/2017  7:10 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/20/2017  7:11 PM
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:I'll admit, the anti-D Rose people were right last year. He had his moments and considering it was a low risk/high reward move I was OK with deal. But they warned us he would not be good for us and they were right. However, we really couldn't go into last season with pretty much the same squad as the previous season.

It was a medium risk, no reward move. It lead to us signing Noah. Grant would be our top PG now and would fit nicely with our long-term plans.
Actually Lopez was the big loss. Grant showed no progress over his rookie season so if he would be our top PG we would be in big trouble. Phil didn't have to sign Noah just because we got Rose so I wouldn't attached that deal to getting Rose. There were other cheaper bigs we could've pursued. Phil just got suckered into signing Noah. THAT deal was high risk.

No progress? He doesn't play much but he went from 22 to 37% 3 point shooting and 78 to 89% from the line.
Wow, hitting .5 more 3 pointers per game is huge! He should've received votes for most improved player based on that!

Having limited PT and few possessions is not the same thing as making no progress. They're two entirely different issues. Grant would be a nice piece to have moving forward.
His ppg, assists, rebs, steals, and minutes were virtually identical to his rookie season. I'm sure the next post will be some advanced stat showing his productivity is similar to Westbrook's.

Come on. You're not even trying to be serious. Grant is on a low cost rookie contract and would be a nice piece. You don't want players who have potential and are on rookie contracts on our roster?
And I don't know how you can dismiss 0.5 more 3s. How many games are decided by 1 to 2 points? Becoming a 3 point threat will impact the offense the entire game even if you're not shooting the ball too obviously.
Grant showed meaningful improvements in 3 point shooting, FT shooting, and turnovers. That's enough that cumulatively it had a large impact and there was a night and day difference in his advanced stats. Again, he had only a small sample of playing time and we wouldn't really know what we were getting if he had a bigger role. He's just a low cost player with significant potential. We need as many of that type as possible.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having Grant. But he has shown nothing to indicate he is worthy of being the starting PG on any team in the NBA yet. If he were here and he's our best options at that position, we are in major trouble.

Oh OK. Fair enough. PG is our weakest position though. We weren't going to go from where we were to having a legit starter at every position. At PG, the team just needs to be sure it can get by (which we don't know we can right now)
BRIGGS
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7/20/2017  8:36 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:D. Rose would actually be good there. He can really bolster that 2nd unit when Kyrie is on the bench

Still don't get how terrible defense doesn't matter.

They have enough defenders to actually protect Rose

5-4 is 5 on 4, no matter how good your 4 are.

He's not that good of an offensive player anymore.

dude most NBA players are not greatd defenders, and the league has catered its rule to the offensive side of the ball. To me, it's all about the defensive system that matters more.

His individual negative effect on the Knicks, more pronounced than most of his teammates, suggests, even relatively, it matters.

The knick defense is bad as a team.

If ROSE is such a horrible defender, how come he was one some of the best defensive teams when he was with bulls and thibs was the coach?

He always was one of the worst defenders on those teams... 2 major surgeries ago

the dude just avoids contact at all cost, that's why he goes under screens so much

Are you predicting the reason why he's so awful is changing?

He's so bad on d? If derrick Rose drove to the basket 100 times Frank N would stop him 0/100 way way way to strong and fast. Who stopped Rose last year? While he wasn't gRy Payton he wasn't a sieve. Now add in guys like Lbj shumpert etc... Behind him rather than the porous frontline the Knicks had?

RIP Crushalot😞
Knickoftime
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7/20/2017  9:09 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:D. Rose would actually be good there. He can really bolster that 2nd unit when Kyrie is on the bench

Still don't get how terrible defense doesn't matter.

They have enough defenders to actually protect Rose

5-4 is 5 on 4, no matter how good your 4 are.

He's not that good of an offensive player anymore.

dude most NBA players are not greatd defenders, and the league has catered its rule to the offensive side of the ball. To me, it's all about the defensive system that matters more.

His individual negative effect on the Knicks, more pronounced than most of his teammates, suggests, even relatively, it matters.

The knick defense is bad as a team.

If ROSE is such a horrible defender, how come he was one some of the best defensive teams when he was with bulls and thibs was the coach?

He always was one of the worst defenders on those teams... 2 major surgeries ago

the dude just avoids contact at all cost, that's why he goes under screens so much

Are you predicting the reason why he's so awful is changing?

He's so bad on d? If derrick Rose drove to the basket 100 times Frank N would stop him 0/100 way way way to strong and fast. Who stopped Rose last year?

Since you asked, Derrick Rose did.

While he wasn't gRy Payton he wasn't a sieve.

Yeah, actually he was. one of the worst point guards in the NBA. Worst guard among the Knicks by a significant margin.

yellowboy90
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7/20/2017  9:24 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:I'll admit, the anti-D Rose people were right last year. He had his moments and considering it was a low risk/high reward move I was OK with deal. But they warned us he would not be good for us and they were right. However, we really couldn't go into last season with pretty much the same squad as the previous season.

It was a medium risk, no reward move. It lead to us signing Noah. Grant would be our top PG now and would fit nicely with our long-term plans.
Actually Lopez was the big loss. Grant showed no progress over his rookie season so if he would be our top PG we would be in big trouble. Phil didn't have to sign Noah just because we got Rose so I wouldn't attached that deal to getting Rose. There were other cheaper bigs we could've pursued. Phil just got suckered into signing Noah. THAT deal was high risk.

No progress? He doesn't play much but he went from 22 to 37% 3 point shooting and 78 to 89% from the line.
Wow, hitting .5 more 3 pointers per game is huge! He should've received votes for most improved player based on that!

Having limited PT and few possessions is not the same thing as making no progress. They're two entirely different issues. Grant would be a nice piece to have moving forward.
His ppg, assists, rebs, steals, and minutes were virtually identical to his rookie season. I'm sure the next post will be some advanced stat showing his productivity is similar to Westbrook's.

Come on. You're not even trying to be serious. Grant is on a low cost rookie contract and would be a nice piece. You don't want players who have potential and are on rookie contracts on our roster?
And I don't know how you can dismiss 0.5 more 3s. How many games are decided by 1 to 2 points? Becoming a 3 point threat will impact the offense the entire game even if you're not shooting the ball too obviously.
Grant showed meaningful improvements in 3 point shooting, FT shooting, and turnovers. That's enough that cumulatively it had a large impact and there was a night and day difference in his advanced stats. Again, he had only a small sample of playing time and we wouldn't really know what we were getting if he had a bigger role. He's just a low cost player with significant potential. We need as many of that type as possible.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having Grant. But he has shown nothing to indicate he is worthy of being the starting PG on any team in the NBA yet. If he were here and he's our best options at that position, we are in major trouble.

Oh OK. Fair enough. PG is our weakest position though. We weren't going to go from where we were to having a legit starter at every position. At PG, the team just needs to be sure it can get by (which we don't know we can right now)

Ron Baker showed less as a rookie than Grant and he just got paid. Plus, people on this board have Baker penciled in as the starting pg. If my memory is correct Grant had a nice close to the season and I believe they were a few threads posted to show how he was improving.

Welpee
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7/20/2017  9:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/20/2017  10:39 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Welpee wrote:I'll admit, the anti-D Rose people were right last year. He had his moments and considering it was a low risk/high reward move I was OK with deal. But they warned us he would not be good for us and they were right. However, we really couldn't go into last season with pretty much the same squad as the previous season.

It was a medium risk, no reward move. It lead to us signing Noah. Grant would be our top PG now and would fit nicely with our long-term plans.
Actually Lopez was the big loss. Grant showed no progress over his rookie season so if he would be our top PG we would be in big trouble. Phil didn't have to sign Noah just because we got Rose so I wouldn't attached that deal to getting Rose. There were other cheaper bigs we could've pursued. Phil just got suckered into signing Noah. THAT deal was high risk.

No progress? He doesn't play much but he went from 22 to 37% 3 point shooting and 78 to 89% from the line.
Wow, hitting .5 more 3 pointers per game is huge! He should've received votes for most improved player based on that!

Having limited PT and few possessions is not the same thing as making no progress. They're two entirely different issues. Grant would be a nice piece to have moving forward.
His ppg, assists, rebs, steals, and minutes were virtually identical to his rookie season. I'm sure the next post will be some advanced stat showing his productivity is similar to Westbrook's.

Come on. You're not even trying to be serious. Grant is on a low cost rookie contract and would be a nice piece. You don't want players who have potential and are on rookie contracts on our roster?
And I don't know how you can dismiss 0.5 more 3s. How many games are decided by 1 to 2 points? Becoming a 3 point threat will impact the offense the entire game even if you're not shooting the ball too obviously.
Grant showed meaningful improvements in 3 point shooting, FT shooting, and turnovers. That's enough that cumulatively it had a large impact and there was a night and day difference in his advanced stats. Again, he had only a small sample of playing time and we wouldn't really know what we were getting if he had a bigger role. He's just a low cost player with significant potential. We need as many of that type as possible.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having Grant. But he has shown nothing to indicate he is worthy of being the starting PG on any team in the NBA yet. If he were here and he's our best options at that position, we are in major trouble.

Oh OK. Fair enough. PG is our weakest position though. We weren't going to go from where we were to having a legit starter at every position. At PG, the team just needs to be sure it can get by (which we don't know we can right now)

Ron Baker showed less as a rookie than Grant and he just got paid. Plus, people on this board have Baker penciled in as the starting pg. If my memory is correct Grant had a nice close to the season and I believe they were a few threads posted to show how he was improving.

Yeah, still don't understand why they paid Ron Baker like that.
TripleThreat
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Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/24/2012
Member: #3997

7/21/2017  12:07 AM
Welpee wrote:His ppg, assists, rebs, steals, and minutes were virtually identical to his rookie season. I'm sure the next post will be some advanced stat showing his productivity is similar to Westbrook's.


Whether or not Jerian Grant pans out, is, IMHO, irrelevant to the "principle" of the issue in any NBA rebuild.

You take the high percentage decision based on current market forces. You assess what league trends are and you adjust for current market expectations and realities.

As a matter of "principle", even if you draft five guys like Grant who never pan out, the base methodology is still the "correct" market based decision. Grant had the potential to enter into his prime on a cost controlled deal. If he could provide value exponential to his rookie contract, this is a boon to the roster and franchise. Rose was being paid over market to his current production, with a hope he'd rebound. He was aging, in decline, had injury history, had off the court history and didn't provide a basic level of defense needed by the roster.

Don Nelson went over this years and years ago, in his RUN TMC days, in an interview, and much of this was from Red Auerbach's philosophy on team building

- Never trade big for small.
- Never trade injury prone for healthy
- Never trade a player in decline for a player with a chance to enter his prime ( i.e. the Bill Walsh Maxim - Better to cut loose of a guy a year too soon than a year too late)
- Never trade a good locker room guy for a bad locker room guy ( which applies also to off the court, never push out a solid citizen for a guy with a shaky past or character or history of off the court problems)
- Never trade young for old, unless you are paying 3 quarters for a dollar in value ( i.e. Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang for Charles Barkley)

The discussion was really about making the best market based decision, even if it doesn't pan out, because staying true to this course will eventually create a net positive for your franchise.

You build and rebuild through the draft in the NBA. You have to give times for your guys to possibly develop. You have to accept there will be some misses as well as some hits in the process.

Signing Robin Lopez was an EXCELLENT market based decision. ( Wanted to be here, had positional value, had no real horrible weakness though he didn't do anything elite either, contract would not carry deeply into his decline phase, he'd hold near term retrade value, he'd hold longer term retrade value, he'd help the team now, he'd possibly help the team in the future, the contract would represent a value to market shifts in the near future)

Trading him for an aging injury prone PG who didn't play defense nor had a three point shot with off the court woes was a HORRIBLE market based decision.

Taking in Noah and not letting Grant have enough room to possibly develop, if at all, only doubled and tripled down on the madness in place.

Again, I've said this all before - An early stage NBA rebuild literally writes its own script. There are literally no other mechanisms for teams to get better. And that the Knicks still screw it up is mind boggling. You could literally get an executive from ANOTHER SPORT, and the NBA current structure is so simple in nature, even they wouldn't screw it up.

Jerian Grant should be on this roster right now. Whether he pans or panned out or not doesn't change that his being on the roster signifies a METHODOLOGY IN PLACE that shows awareness of the current market structure around the Knicks.

Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
7/21/2017  6:36 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
Welpee wrote:His ppg, assists, rebs, steals, and minutes were virtually identical to his rookie season. I'm sure the next post will be some advanced stat showing his productivity is similar to Westbrook's.


Whether or not Jerian Grant pans out, is, IMHO, irrelevant to the "principle" of the issue in any NBA rebuild.

You take the high percentage decision based on current market forces. You assess what league trends are and you adjust for current market expectations and realities.

As a matter of "principle", even if you draft five guys like Grant who never pan out, the base methodology is still the "correct" market based decision. Grant had the potential to enter into his prime on a cost controlled deal. If he could provide value exponential to his rookie contract, this is a boon to the roster and franchise. Rose was being paid over market to his current production, with a hope he'd rebound. He was aging, in decline, had injury history, had off the court history and didn't provide a basic level of defense needed by the roster.


Exactly. Phil didn't seem to understand this stuff about cost control or really anything about the importance of value *relative to cost*
I know, he didn't trade our picks (or at least not until after the guys played a year or two for us!)
D Rose close to signing with the Cavs

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