Posted by crzymdups:

Say what you will about it being in a contract year, but 12, 12 and 2 is pretty damn good for centers these days. Damps always played well when he got playing time.

I still say Dallas is going to be great.

As for Craw vs. Daniels, Daniels plays much more defense and involves his teammates more. Jamal is the better scorer and shooter and dribbler, but Daniels is better in every other aspect (rebounding, defense, passing, basketball IQ). Daniels is better right now, Jamal can be better in the long run. But I guarantee you that NYK vs. DAL is going to get ugly from our side this year. Daniels is a better fit for the Mavs, he gives them the toughness and smarts they need. They're going to be very very very good.

Dampier averaged 12/12/2 and yet the warriors still went with foyle who avered what 4/4? or something like that? I think the warriors were not fooled by dampier either... as far as daniels is concerned what makes you think he has a better bball IQ and is a better passer?
Daniels averaged just a little over 2 boards and 2 assists a game, and that should be higher for daniels you would think especially with all the scorers on his team, crawford averaged 3.5 rebounds and 5.1 assists as well as doubling Daniels point production.. I just don't see where daniels is a better passer or rebounder.. I am confused... Crawford had a high in assists of 12 two times daniels was 9.. I just don't see your point... I think you are overrating dallas............

Posted by tkf:

Posted by crzymdups:

Say what you will about it being in a contract year, but 12, 12 and 2 is pretty damn good for centers these days. Damps always played well when he got playing time.

I still say Dallas is going to be great.

As for Craw vs. Daniels, Daniels plays much more defense and involves his teammates more. Jamal is the better scorer and shooter and dribbler, but Daniels is better in every other aspect (rebounding, defense, passing, basketball IQ). Daniels is better right now, Jamal can be better in the long run. But I guarantee you that NYK vs. DAL is going to get ugly from our side this year. Daniels is a better fit for the Mavs, he gives them the toughness and smarts they need. They're going to be very very very good.

Dampier averaged 12/12/2 and yet the warriors still went with foyle who avered what 4/4? or something like that? I think the warriors were not fooled by dampier either

Maybe dumb Mullin was fooled by Foyle

Posted by tkf:

Posted by crzymdups:

Say what you will about it being in a contract year, but 12, 12 and 2 is pretty damn good for centers these days. Damps always played well when he got playing time.

I still say Dallas is going to be great.

As for Craw vs. Daniels, Daniels plays much more defense and involves his teammates more. Jamal is the better scorer and shooter and dribbler, but Daniels is better in every other aspect (rebounding, defense, passing, basketball IQ). Daniels is better right now, Jamal can be better in the long run. But I guarantee you that NYK vs. DAL is going to get ugly from our side this year. Daniels is a better fit for the Mavs, he gives them the toughness and smarts they need. They're going to be very very very good.

Dampier averaged 12/12/2 and yet the warriors still went with foyle who avered what 4/4? or something like that? I think the warriors were not fooled by dampier either... as far as daniels is concerned what makes you think he has a better bball IQ and is a better passer?
Daniels averaged just a little over 2 boards and 2 assists a game, and that should be higher for daniels you would think especially with all the scorers on his team, crawford averaged 3.5 rebounds and 5.1 assists as well as doubling Daniels point production.. I just don't see where daniels is a better passer or rebounder.. I am confused... Crawford had a high in assists of 12 two times daniels was 9.. I just don't see your point... I think you are overrating dallas............

Fair enough. I was very impressed by Daniels and Howard last season, particularly in the playoffs against the Kings. Maybe I'm underrating Jamal, and I hope I am! I would love for Jamal to come out and be the perfect combo guard for this team.

But Daniels vs. Crawford aside, I still say Dallas is the deepest team in the West and one of the top 3 overall. I'd say San Antonio, Detroit and Dallas are the top teams in the league. Indiana, Denver, Minnie, Sacto and Houston are the next tier. Everyone else can keep dreaming or add more pieces. This includes Miami, Utah, Phoenix, Lakers and NYK.

i'd rather have a guy like Mark Blount or Marcus Camby at MLE or slightly above MLE type dollars than to overpay for a 31 year old C who had 1 good season in 8.

the only way i'd be able to justify overpaying like that for a C is if we were talking about a young, up & coming talent like a Samuel Dalembert or Jamaal Magloire (or Yao Ming obviously) who is already putting up good numbers & has more upside potential to go...i think Dampier has pretty much reached his peak potential to be honest, & at his age, there's not much more to hope for him to improve on...& i would be highly skeptical of him if it meant having to shell out those types of big dollars for him...the same would ring true for other C's in the league who got big contracts as well that aren't necessarily superstar calibre, unless we were talking about a candidate like Ilgauskas, who has an expiring deal where the risk in taking him on is minimized.


[Edited by - TMS on 08/25/2004 12:48:34]

Posted by tkf:

Posted by Bonn1997:

The Mavs downgraded at PG from like the 8th best PG to the maybe the 14th best PG. By upgrading from Chubby Fortson and Shawn Bradley at C to Erick Dampier, they've upgraded at C from about the 40th best C in the league to about the 5th best. That's why the upgrade at C is much bigger than the downgrade at PG and I expect the team to be significantly better than last year.

you really think there are a 8 better PG's than nash.. I can name only a few... Steph, francis, kidd, bibby, and that is about it.......You can't just rate players like that and use that to determine how good the team will be, if that is the case then why weren't the warriors any better? if that is the case then the Rockets should be title contenders because they went from a top 20 player in the league in Francis to a top 5 players in Mcgrady? see my point? doesn't make much sense.... Dampier has not made anyone better, so what the mavs will be a few games better but that does not erase the fact that there are 4 teams that are clearly better than they are, so spending that much money on him IMO will backfire on the mavs, Dampier is not going to transform that tream into a title contender....

Clearly, you have to construct a team as far as putting players together whose skills complement one another and whose personalities don't clash too badly. But Avery Johnson highly recommended Damps to the Mavs, which has to count for something.

I think the problem in GSW is the management, the environment, the selfishness of JRich, the green-ness of Dunleavy, the injuries to Troy, the lack of solid PG play and a histroy of losing. That's a lot to ask Damps to make up for.

Look at Sheed. Sheed wasn't a great TEAM player in the acidic atmosphere of Portland, but in Detroit he immediately bought into the system and made them the best team in the league. I think Damps will be able to fit in similarly in Dallas. He doesn't have to worry about money or PT anymore, he can focus on rebounding and winning.

I think Dallas is a very well contructed team with veteran leadership in Finley, active youngsters in Howard and Daniels, a rebounding defensive pressence in Damps and a superstar scorer/shooter in Dirk. They have talent and depth. Whether they can come together defensively well be decided in the months to come.

Posted by TMS:

i'd rather have a guy like Mark Blount or Marcus Camby at MLE or slightly above MLE type dollars than to overpay for a 31 year old C who had 1 good season in 8.

the only way i'd be able to justify overpaying like that for a C is if we were talking about a young, up & coming talent like a Samuel Dalembert or Jamaal Magloire (or Yao Ming obviously) who is already putting up good numbers & has more upside potential to go...i think Dampier has pretty much reached his peak potential to be honest, & at his age, there's not much more to hope for him to improve on...& i would be highly skeptical of him if it meant having to shell out those types of big dollars for him...the same would ring true for other C's in the league who got big contracts as well that aren't necessarily superstar calibre, unless we were talking about a candidate like Ilgauskas, who has an expiring deal where the risk in taking him on is minimized.


[Edited by - TMS on 08/25/2004 12:48:34]

Dampier just turned 29 in July. Check Hoopshype.

One thing for sure is that the Mavericks sure wasted a whole amount of money on dampier.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by TMS:

i'd rather have a guy like Mark Blount or Marcus Camby at MLE or slightly above MLE type dollars than to overpay for a 31 year old C who had 1 good season in 8.

the only way i'd be able to justify overpaying like that for a C is if we were talking about a young, up & coming talent like a Samuel Dalembert or Jamaal Magloire (or Yao Ming obviously) who is already putting up good numbers & has more upside potential to go...i think Dampier has pretty much reached his peak potential to be honest, & at his age, there's not much more to hope for him to improve on...& i would be highly skeptical of him if it meant having to shell out those types of big dollars for him...the same would ring true for other C's in the league who got big contracts as well that aren't necessarily superstar calibre, unless we were talking about a candidate like Ilgauskas, who has an expiring deal where the risk in taking him on is minimized.


[Edited by - TMS on 08/25/2004 12:48:34]

Dampier just turned 29 in July. Check Hoopshype.

i checked ESPN..."Born: July 14, 1974, Jackson, MS"...that makes him 30 (i was off by a year), & after 8 seasons in the NBA, you don't give the guy a big contract for extended years after posting only 1 impressive year...you give that type of contract to a young up & comer who's on the cusp of breaking out as a legitimate star if not 1 already...Dalembert, Magloire & obviously Yao quality (i'd be talking about max dollars in Yao's case)...

for a guy like Dampier, a 5 year, $55 million dollar contract is the deal i would have offered, & i never wavered from that...even when the Knicks were rumored to be mulling a 6 year deal, i was concerned about the longterm ramifications & the thought of having a 36 year old C making near max dollars taking up cap space way past his prime...we've all seen how fast a decline much better players like Dikembe Mutombo, Shawn Kemp & Vin Baker have had in their later years after signing big contracts, & those guys were verified star bigmen in their hayday coming off multiple allstar calibre seasons before they were signed to their deals.

[Edited by - TMS on 08/25/2004 13:26:57]

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by Bonn1997:

The Mavs downgraded at PG from like the 8th best PG to the maybe the 14th best PG. By upgrading from Chubby Fortson and Shawn Bradley at C to Erick Dampier, they've upgraded at C from about the 40th best C in the league to about the 5th best. That's why the upgrade at C is much bigger than the downgrade at PG and I expect the team to be significantly better than last year.

you really think there are a 8 better PG's than nash.. I can name only a few... Steph, francis, kidd, bibby, and that is about it.......You can't just rate players like that and use that to determine how good the team will be, if that is the case then why weren't the warriors any better? if that is the case then the Rockets should be title contenders because they went from a top 20 player in the league in Francis to a top 5 players in Mcgrady? see my point? doesn't make much sense.... Dampier has not made anyone better, so what the mavs will be a few games better but that does not erase the fact that there are 4 teams that are clearly better than they are, so spending that much money on him IMO will backfire on the mavs, Dampier is not going to transform that tream into a title contender....

Clearly, you have to construct a team as far as putting players together whose skills complement one another and whose personalities don't clash too badly. But Avery Johnson highly recommended Damps to the Mavs, which has to count for something.

I think the problem in GSW is the management, the environment, the selfishness of JRich, the green-ness of Dunleavy, the injuries to Troy, the lack of solid PG play and a histroy of losing. That's a lot to ask Damps to make up for.

Look at Sheed. Sheed wasn't a great TEAM player in the acidic atmosphere of Portland, but in Detroit he immediately bought into the system and made them the best team in the league. I think Damps will be able to fit in similarly in Dallas. He doesn't have to worry about money or PT anymore, he can focus on rebounding and winning.

I think Dallas is a very well contructed team with veteran leadership in Finley, active youngsters in Howard and Daniels, a rebounding defensive pressence in Damps and a superstar scorer/shooter in Dirk. They have talent and depth. Whether they can come together defensively well be decided in the months to come.

the thing with sheed is that he was always a team player in portland, his teamates loved him there, all this media crap about him being a cancer is just garbage... Sheed helped portland become a solid playoff team but to go to the next level he needed to be on a team where he would not be expected to carry that team, and detroit was that fit.. Dampier wasn't even asked to carry the warriors and yet he never helped that team excell in any area, that is what concerns me, dampier will come in early grab a few boards, get a few dunks, but when it came to winning time to scoring big in times of the games that win games this guy was no where to be found, he never added that extra element to his team, to expect him to do so after 8 years in another place, just isn't logical to me....

Posted by TMS:

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by TMS:

i'd rather have a guy like Mark Blount or Marcus Camby at MLE or slightly above MLE type dollars than to overpay for a 31 year old C who had 1 good season in 8.

the only way i'd be able to justify overpaying like that for a C is if we were talking about a young, up & coming talent like a Samuel Dalembert or Jamaal Magloire (or Yao Ming obviously) who is already putting up good numbers & has more upside potential to go...i think Dampier has pretty much reached his peak potential to be honest, & at his age, there's not much more to hope for him to improve on...& i would be highly skeptical of him if it meant having to shell out those types of big dollars for him...the same would ring true for other C's in the league who got big contracts as well that aren't necessarily superstar calibre, unless we were talking about a candidate like Ilgauskas, who has an expiring deal where the risk in taking him on is minimized.


[Edited by - TMS on 08/25/2004 12:48:34]

Dampier just turned 29 in July. Check Hoopshype.

i checked ESPN..."Born: July 14, 1974, Jackson, MS"...that makes him 30 (i was off by a year), & after 8 seasons in the NBA, you don't give the guy a big contract for extended years after posting only 1 impressive year...you give that type of contract to a young up & comer who's on the cusp of breaking out as a legitimate star if not 1 already...Dalembert, Magloire & obviously Yao quality (i'd be talking about max dollars in Yao's case)...

for a guy like Dampier, a 5 year, $55 million dollar contract is the deal i would have offered, & i never wavered from that...even when the Knicks were rumored to be mulling a 6 year deal, i was concerned about the longterm ramifications & the thought of having a 36 year old C making near max dollars taking up cap space way past his prime...we've all seen how fast a decline much better players like Dikembe Mutombo, Shawn Kemp & Vin Baker have had in their later years after signing big contracts, & those guys were verified star bigmen in their hayday coming off multiple allstar calibre seasons before they were signed to their deals.

[Edited by - TMS on 08/25/2004 13:26:57]

This is why I said to check Hoopshype. They have a link from a story in the Dallas morning news (which you have to register for an I didn't want to) saying that Dampier was actually born in 1975 and that the league's records were inaccurate. According to NBA rules, you can't give a player over 30 a 7 year contract, so I'd love to hear your explanation as to how Dampier got this 7 year deal if he isn't 29.

well guys...this changes EVERYTHING...how stupid of me to say Dampier wasn't worth a 7 year $73 million dollar deal...the thought of a 36 year old C making near max dollars at the end of his contract after he's had 1 impressive season in the NBA out of 8 is perfectly fine w/me now! i've seen the light!