Bonn1997 wrote:

Sinix wrote:I'm convinced a lot of posters here weren't around for that youthful team Isiah originally brought in. This team follows the same exact outline.

You seem to think you know a lot about us. Surprising coming from a guy who's been here 6 weeks.

If you've been on one basketball forum you've been on them all. I used to post on gfaqs NBA for years, realgm for years and other places that have basketball discussion. Believe me, don't believe me, doesn't matter to me.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Sinix wrote:I'm convinced a lot of posters here weren't around for that youthful team Isiah originally brought in. This team follows the same exact outline.

You seem to think you know a lot about us. Surprising coming from a guy who's been here 6 weeks.

If we overpay a player, then his trade value will be negative. Sometimes we want to trade away even though it works out.

For example, THj could be totally okay, like 15mil player ok, but Damyean Dotson is turning out to be next Kobe. Then we would want to make space but we couldn't. we are struck because THj is okay but not 21mil okay.

25 yr is fine until we realize a lot of G-league players are young too. Youth is only a factor, and capable is another one. I don't think THj is bad, but I do think we overpay him. We have to because he is RFA. But the problem is that 1.his trade value is negative 2.Even it is positive, the gain will be very small.

For example, if it turns out THj is super good, like all-star good. Then what is the market value? Maybe 25? or 27? The gain is modest but the risk is very high. I'd rather go low and have a bunch of high character role players and wait for a star who wants to take a pay cut because he likes our team environment.

Phil and Rose, you have to have some evidence to claim he would sign Rose 71/4 since it didn't happen in real life. I know he obviously wanted to sign him but he also wanted to get a bargain (He said we are listening) If you assume he is insane or something, it is totally reasonable to think he would cut Holiday and Ndour and Plumlee, the players he actually loved, and go to sign Rose with 71/4. However, I don't believe it because in my mind he is little bit less insane.

We never knew what he would do because history can only run once, but he always were very safe with his cap. Signing Noah (I know I have to mention him) took away a lot of cap, but he did that with the assumption Rose was expiring. The year before he signed Afflalo and Williams with 1+1, and I think he knew they would opt-out for the reason players signing this kind of contract is to opt-out. He signed Séraphin for 1 year, right? He protected the cap flexibility. It was his main theme.

So, if you think he would go 71/4 on Rose, then probably we could assume he traded someone away without taking player back before that. Noah was not possible because no one wanted him. Lee was someone he obviously liked and wanted to teach personally. He valued Lance highly so the possibility is not high.

Then it means it would be only possible if he traded away Melo. I assume buyout would stay on the cap, right? Without trading away Melo and not taking back a lot of salaries, I don't think he would sign Rose with 71/4 because it would ruin the cap flexibility. Sure it is possible at 71yr he would suddenly change and say "Fck you, cap flexibility" but I don't think the chance is high.

So I wrote a lot of words and hopefully the idea is sent. Mills is doing something Phil would not do with Rose, especially he just got burned by a injured player before. The chance is low he would do the same with another injured player next year.

CrushAlot wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:I am afraid it is just the first step.

Mills is signing him not for the rebuilding, but competing. It means he really wants to do something now and is willing to spend some resources to accomplish it. Salary cap is the most moveable resource, and when it dries up (it means we are in cap hell) but we are still sub-par, then we have to do more.

Next sensible choice is to move players for another one. But since we overpay our players to get them here in the first place, we cannot trade them away. For example, THj is 18mil player, but with 15% trade bonus it will be 20.7mil, right? I am not sure we can trade him away like a 21 mil player. It will be too hard. It requires him to be a superstar.

That means we are struck with the players and we have no way to go out. You don't have cap and you cannot trade away your players to go rebuild. You only choice is double down and win now.

I think we all know too well what the third step is.

Trading away our first round picks to get more help, hopefully we can go over the top.

Knicks didn't trade away the picks immediately. We did it because we didn't have any major asset we wanted to trade away at the time.

If we start to trade away picks, I think we can safely assume we finally undone every "damage" Phil has done.

My initial reaction to this move was that it was a sign that the team was being led in a bad direction. I don't see it that way at all now. In fact I am starting to like the move. Tim is only 25 so he fits with getting younger. Mills has let it be known that he wants young players so I don't think picks are going to be moved. (I.e. no Marcus Smart trade). This move also means DRose will not be resigned. He might have gotten Tim's deal if Phil was here.

smackeddog wrote:

Sinix wrote:I'm convinced a lot of posters here weren't around for that youthful team Isiah originally brought in. This team follows the same exact outline.

The problem with IT was the trading of unprotected draft picks. now even if this is the worst season ever, we still have our pick so could land the top spot in the draft.

Sinix wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Sinix wrote:I'm convinced a lot of posters here weren't around for that youthful team Isiah originally brought in. This team follows the same exact outline.

The problem with IT was the trading of unprotected draft picks. now even if this is the worst season ever, we still have our pick so could land the top spot in the draft.

That wasn't even close to the only problem and to bog it down to that is blinding yourself towards things that will just come back again until you actually start admitting the problems exist.

Isiah brought in a lot of great players that were super talented.

Marbury had an epic career.
Zach Randolph recovered and went to like 10 ASGs after his terrible knicks stint
David Lee had a real solid, productive career
Stevie Francis was a top talent before the Knicks
Eddy Curry was supposed to be the next Shaq

Matt Barnes, Jamal Crawford.... We had them all when they were young.

Knicks had young talented drafted players too. Trevor Ariza, Sweeney.

The leadership and culture wasn't there to develop them whenever we had the young picks. Doesn't matter if we had more or less. They weren't going to amount to anything under the Knicks culture just like we've had countless amounts of talented players that can never put together under Dolan's leadership.

Zach played for 8 years with Memphis. He went to 2 AS games. You said 10. That discrepancy is right in line with how out of whack everything else you are saying is.

Sinix wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Sinix wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Sinix wrote:I'm convinced a lot of posters here weren't around for that youthful team Isiah originally brought in. This team follows the same exact outline.

The problem with IT was the trading of unprotected draft picks. now even if this is the worst season ever, we still have our pick so could land the top spot in the draft.

That wasn't even close to the only problem and to bog it down to that is blinding yourself towards things that will just come back again until you actually start admitting the problems exist.

Isiah brought in a lot of great players that were super talented.

Marbury had an epic career.
Zach Randolph recovered and went to like 10 ASGs after his terrible knicks stint
David Lee had a real solid, productive career
Stevie Francis was a top talent before the Knicks
Eddy Curry was supposed to be the next Shaq

Matt Barnes, Jamal Crawford.... We had them all when they were young.

Knicks had young talented drafted players too. Trevor Ariza, Sweeney.

The leadership and culture wasn't there to develop them whenever we had the young picks. Doesn't matter if we had more or less. They weren't going to amount to anything under the Knicks culture just like we've had countless amounts of talented players that can never put together under Dolan's leadership.

OK so know we know you have zero knowledge of what actually happens.

Zach played for 8 years with Memphis. He went to 2 AS games. You said 10. That discrepancy is right in line with how out of whack everything else you are saying is.

You're missing the point. He obviously didn't go to 10 ASGs but the point is he had an incredibly productive career after it looked like he was done on the Knicks. A common theme for Knicks players- either have a great career before or after the Knicks and face the valleys of your career while being a Knick. Almost every Knick follows that trajectory and it isn't a grass is greener case.

knicks1248 wrote:No triangle = 10 more winns

Sinix wrote:

mlby1215 wrote: Really? 41 win with this team? I trust you and bet my house on it now.

The best season the knicks could possibly have is landing in a top 3 pick territory with young talent developing.

A championship is obviously out of the question.

The worst position the knicks could be is around the 8-10 seeding. This is where I currently see the Knicks. Horrendously ugly basketball playstyle and 8-10 seeding. Enough to be out of the running to draft a future meaningful player. THjr and Melo have done a number of us before when we tried to tank games at the end of the season, they will do it again.

THjr would not be good enough to ruin the tank, but if we sign him it means Knicks doesn't plan to tank. It is going to be very dangerous. After we used up our cap, we probably would trade away our players. If all of them are overpaid thus having negative trade value, then probably we start to trade away picks.

THjr alone is not important. The problem is that we finally have a clue what Knicks is going to do. Phil wanted to win but he was very careful. Mills wants to win too but he is obviously a much bigger risk taker.