Sinix wrote:

MS wrote:You just don't hear any GM's doing what Phil is doing.

He's right up there with George Karl. There seems to be an unspoken rule that things stay in house.

Phil, himself told Knicks fans that KP was 3-4 years away when he was drafted. If it's year two and he average 18pts and 7rbs perhaps we give him the benefit of the doubt before trashing him publically. Every person interviewed around the league has been unbelievably confused by Phil's behavior.

Derrick Rose was his point guard. Perhaps find pieces that fit before giving 70MM to a broken down center because you smoked a little peyote on your farm in Montana together. Perhaps Charlie Rosen should write an article about the ****ing center Phil signed in the offseason who played 20 games after missing a season and being ineffective and then suspended for using banned substances. I must have missed that article....

No GMs were doing what Hinkie was doing either. Now lots are and he is widely praised.

Doing things just because others are is never a good argument for anything. Always have an argument why or why not something works.

Is Phil not allowed to have flexibility in his thinking?

He made a judgement about KP at that time. A few years later he might have seen things that have changed his future projection of KP.

Explain to me what the Knicks are missing out on by having Noah on the books. Were we in the running for some talent that was going to push us into championship contender status? We're many many many years away.

is that what you tell you boss after a 100 fck ups,

contractor says he'll have your house built in 2 to 3 yrs, and by yr 4 he hasn't even build a frame..i guess you keep paying him to come up with nothing..

knicks1248 wrote:

Sinix wrote:

MS wrote:You just don't hear any GM's doing what Phil is doing.

He's right up there with George Karl. There seems to be an unspoken rule that things stay in house.

Phil, himself told Knicks fans that KP was 3-4 years away when he was drafted. If it's year two and he average 18pts and 7rbs perhaps we give him the benefit of the doubt before trashing him publically. Every person interviewed around the league has been unbelievably confused by Phil's behavior.

Derrick Rose was his point guard. Perhaps find pieces that fit before giving 70MM to a broken down center because you smoked a little peyote on your farm in Montana together. Perhaps Charlie Rosen should write an article about the ****ing center Phil signed in the offseason who played 20 games after missing a season and being ineffective and then suspended for using banned substances. I must have missed that article....

No GMs were doing what Hinkie was doing either. Now lots are and he is widely praised.

Doing things just because others are is never a good argument for anything. Always have an argument why or why not something works.

Is Phil not allowed to have flexibility in his thinking?

He made a judgement about KP at that time. A few years later he might have seen things that have changed his future projection of KP.

Explain to me what the Knicks are missing out on by having Noah on the books. Were we in the running for some talent that was going to push us into championship contender status? We're many many many years away.

is that what you tell you boss after a 100 fck ups,

The article was spot on. Its nothing more than a pro/con of trading KP and nothing was unfair or lacking substance.

knicks1248 wrote:

Sinix wrote:

MS wrote:You just don't hear any GM's doing what Phil is doing.

He's right up there with George Karl. There seems to be an unspoken rule that things stay in house.

Phil, himself told Knicks fans that KP was 3-4 years away when he was drafted. If it's year two and he average 18pts and 7rbs perhaps we give him the benefit of the doubt before trashing him publically. Every person interviewed around the league has been unbelievably confused by Phil's behavior.

Derrick Rose was his point guard. Perhaps find pieces that fit before giving 70MM to a broken down center because you smoked a little peyote on your farm in Montana together. Perhaps Charlie Rosen should write an article about the ****ing center Phil signed in the offseason who played 20 games after missing a season and being ineffective and then suspended for using banned substances. I must have missed that article....

No GMs were doing what Hinkie was doing either. Now lots are and he is widely praised.

Doing things just because others are is never a good argument for anything. Always have an argument why or why not something works.

Is Phil not allowed to have flexibility in his thinking?

He made a judgement about KP at that time. A few years later he might have seen things that have changed his future projection of KP.

Explain to me what the Knicks are missing out on by having Noah on the books. Were we in the running for some talent that was going to push us into championship contender status? We're many many many years away.

is that what you tell you boss after a 100 fck ups,

contractor says he'll have your house built in 2 to 3 yrs, and by yr 4 he hasn't even build a frame..i guess you keep paying him to come up with nothing..

Maybe 100 fk ups if you are trying to look for the most minuscule things you can get him on.

When it comes to the important things like not trading away draft picks or drafting well, Phil has done an A+ job and that's really all that's relevant when it comes to his job review.

Phil can be the most likable person in the world, players are not going to magically sign here until we have a good young team that we've built by drafting wise.

Should have shown up, stated his grievances and listened to their side of the story. It was his opportunity to have a captive audience with team officials. He didn't deliver ANY message other than that he's unprofessional.

Now... it's possible that he made an error in judgment (people young and old do that all the time, so I hesitate to call it immaturity). But it seems as if he's getting poor advice from his entourage (ie his brothers) if he actually wants to stay a Knick. It's no good for his brand too - future employers will reference this and think twice, and as a parent, I'd be wary of this being a pattern of behavior as a role model.

I'd like KP to be my fave Knick for the next decade, but in his first press conference back I'd hope the first question is about this topic - and that he owns up to this and say that he and Phil spoke, they had a private conversation and that they're on the same page.

Otherwise, we might be better off with, let's say De'Aaron Fox (2nd coming of John Wall?) and another player. We like to talk about KP's massive potential, but I worry that he'll level off as a Brook Lopez type (20ppg/7rpg, solid stat machine when healthy, but unable to carry a team) rather than a transcendent player that could really be the centerpiece of a winning team.

Poor, poor poor judgment

If KP is traded (I hope not -- I do think we will regret it big time), my bigger hope is that such is an impetus for Melo to leave too. No hard feelings or hate towards him, but he doesn't fit what we're trying to do and that's on him -- he's been begged to pass and defend

jrodmc wrote:

Sinix wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Clean wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Clean wrote:Phil has some major problems but I think the root of a lot of this is melo. We should have just let him go to the Bulls. We should have remembered how he killed Linsanity because he could not stand Lin being the man in NY and tanked a season to get Dantoni fired. Melo might have turned KP into a Diva and he was the best thing to happen to the Knicks since linsanity.

Oh my god, my theory on replacement Melo hate theology is true and real! The 15 minutes of Jeremy lives on!

All we need now for the circle of life is a straight up Melo trade with Brooklyn for the Real Saviour to Come Home!

If you want to ignore history then that's on you. There is 2 ways a franchise player can react when a new basketball system is implemented. They can take the Melo route or the James Harden route. Harden bought in and look where its got him. Melo only does what Melo thinks is good for Melo. He is a nice guy but not a team player unless he is playing on the Olympic team.

Ignore history? Tell me what our record was the first three seasons Melo came here again? Tell me who led the team in assists for a whole season. Tell me what team player organized off season workouts with the team? Tell me how winning the division was only good for Melo? Tell me how dragging a pile of one season, no show wonders to the second round of the playoffs is only about a nice guy who scored 36 points and at least tried to cram a jam down someone's throat instead of hiding in a corner?

You're worldview of history is very easily discerned by your fanboy view of 2 whole weeks of Linsanity that equated to exactly what in the playoffs? Nothing.

Next.

Melo's crowing achievment as a Knick is making the second round once with a fraudulent team. This is what a 6-7 year tenure we've had him for?

Yes, I know, you much prefer winning 29 games a season and circle jerking yourself into oblivion on draft night.

Sinix wrote:
This is the guy that made it so the Knicks had to trade 3/4 of their valuable assets to get him and he was okay with that because he's got a big ego and thought he could still win. Oops.

Yes, I know, and Denver went on to win how many chips and get how many HOF players with those valuable assets? Yes indeedy, Moz got a ring right? Oops.

Sinix wrote:Melo had us drain our assets for him because of his big ego and we never recovered.

Ummmm, we never recovered from what? Not being in the playoffs and watching Marbles eat vaseline? Did mommy drop you on your head alot?

Sinix wrote:Every year he's stayed out of shape and not worked on his game.

Right, except those years he led the team in assists, and rebounding and hit all those clutch shots at the end of games. Ooops, I think you forgot that all the Fat Melo threads with the pics from the guy named Splat are about 3 years old.

Sinix wrote:When we started having ball movement and team philosophy, Melo put the kibach on that quickly by running D'antoni and Lin out of town.

Lin? You still talking about the 2 weeks of Lin? You don't think the second round of the playoffs is anything, but a documented one hit wonder who NEVER played in a playoff game for us is worth mentioning to you? Psssst, try to pay attention to your own posts.

Sinix wrote:Melo has had teams catered to him in NY for years and his results have been utterly embarrassing.

Riiiight, playing with Toney Dougless and Fishlips and Lou Amundson and Chris Smith is the type of catering that all NBA HOF players crave and desire. Are you really this simple?

Sinix wrote:I would of rather been in the lottery than spinning the wheels with fat chucking Melo who loves NY.

Yes, again, I suggest you try UltimateSixers.com, they could probably use your boost of enthusiam for "the process"... you could make all sorts of interesting, up beat threads about Simmons' rehab and how MCW is doing on some other team and what Noel is actually worth now on the open market...and.. go have fun!

Sinix wrote:Now he's going to screw us again by not waiving his NTC and making it so we have to buy him out instead of getting assets for him..... That was a courtesy he did for the Nuggets he will not do for us.

Ummmm, I'm not sure if you need to, but check your meds. Melo didn't have an NTC in Denver. And maybe you might want to stop sucking face with your Phil doll long enough to realize that Melo didn't give himself the NTC.

Sinix wrote:He took a Denver team to the WCF and left them with assets. He took us to the second round once and bled us dry financially and asset wise. Thanks Melo.

Psssst-- last I checked, those "assets" never took Denver anywhere near the WCF, and Melo wasn't the one who decided to resign Melo, rather than trade his own useless azz. But thanks for playing.

Think about this.
If Phil really though KP was that much trouble.
Wouldn't he give him to Boston for JJ straight up?
Boston was willing to offer #3, and another player (starter) or pick. Phil wanted more.

If Phil wanted Melo gone so bad, then why hasn't he already agreed to a bad Clipper deal?
The Clips would have done Rivers, Crawford for Melo at deadline. Phil said no.

Rosen will always critique players it's what he does. Especially Phil's players. If you are mentally weak like Melo it makes you pout and complain. If you're mentally strong and a winner like Kobe you respond with better play.

I don't know which one KP is, but my gut says he's got more of Kobe's tougher mindset than Melo's chillax one.

arkrud wrote:Phil gave Melo benefits of the doubt and Melo failed.
In a way Melo showed that he is not interested in big things outside of Melo.
This is all he cares about. He is just a regular person so whats new.
He can make buckets and this how he will be remembered.
Time to move on. It is nothing there to hold on to.
Phil gave KP benefits of the doubt and... now we are going to see what the young fella is made of.
And pretty soon. Why fool yourself about assets you have?
Want to fool around and rip somebody? Is NBA front offices stacked with idiots?
If they are it does not matter what Phil did with player perception.
They will still take him regardless...

Melo is what he's always been. An important piece on a good team but incapable of really helping us very much. Phil made the same Dolan/Layden esque mistake thinking that by giving a richer contract with an NTC, Melo would raise his game another dimension. Much like Dolan and Layden did with Allan Houston. Melo took the terms as anyone would do.

The Knicks need KP more than Phil and more than KP needs the Knicks. The question is if Phil is going to continue to hammer at KP and try to embarrass him. If there's an attitude or behavior issue, it's really the coach's job to address it in private. Unfortunately, the power structure Phil has in place is a real mess and Hornacek is really just a puppet. Having Phil run running the day to day via Rambis is and will continue to be a disaster. He really should have let Hornacek pick his staff. If we have 2 more bad dysfunctional seasons, I could see KP taking the QO and moving on.

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Rosen writes these type of things on all of Phil's players not just Melo/KP.
The difference is because they are stars when he writes something criticizing what they do it becomes bigger news.

Think about this.
If Phil really though KP was that much trouble.
Wouldn't he give him to Boston for JJ straight up?
Boston was willing to offer #3, and another player (starter) or pick. Phil wanted more.

If Phil wanted Melo gone so bad, then why hasn't he already agreed to a bad Clipper deal?
The Clips would have done Rivers, Crawford for Melo at deadline. Phil said no.

Rosen will always critique players it's what he does. Especially Phil's players. If you are mentally weak like Melo it makes you pout and complain. If you're mentally strong and a winner like Kobe you respond with better play.

I don't know which one KP is, but my gut says he's got more of Kobe's tougher mindset than Melo's chillax one.

He did the Phil Files and has done some recap/summary stuff but he his individual player articles have been limited to the guys Phil is angry with. Did you notice Ramona Shelbourne writes about the Knicks when Phil is clashing with his best players?

Phil knows Melo is a HOF player.
Phil knows KP is a franchise level talent with athletic Dirk potential.

But Phil has been around the greats and made very good players play like champions. If he sees KP and Melo settle for bad shots, play weak on defense and show a bad attitude, he should be on them. If he's relaying this information to Rosen, so be it.

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Rosen writes these type of things on all of Phil's players not just Melo/KP.
The difference is because they are stars when he writes something criticizing what they do it becomes bigger news.

Think about this.
If Phil really though KP was that much trouble.
Wouldn't he give him to Boston for JJ straight up?
Boston was willing to offer #3, and another player (starter) or pick. Phil wanted more.

If Phil wanted Melo gone so bad, then why hasn't he already agreed to a bad Clipper deal?
The Clips would have done Rivers, Crawford for Melo at deadline. Phil said no.

Rosen will always critique players it's what he does. Especially Phil's players. If you are mentally weak like Melo it makes you pout and complain. If you're mentally strong and a winner like Kobe you respond with better play.

I don't know which one KP is, but my gut says he's got more of Kobe's tougher mindset than Melo's chillax one.

He did the Phil Files and has done some recap/summary stuff but he his individual player articles have been limited to the guys Phil is angry with. Did you notice Ramona Shelbourne writes about the Knicks when Phil is clashing with his best players?

Think about it this way.
If Phil hatees these guys, why doesn't he just trade him for best offer available?
KP at worst would have gotten us JJ or Tatum, a Boston starter and maybe a future pick. Phil wanted more.
Melo would have gotten us a draft pick, Austin Rivers and Jamal. No agreement.

Phil knows Melo is a HOF player.
Phil knows KP is a franchise level talent with athletic Dirk potential.

But Phil has been around the greats and made very good players play like champions. If he sees KP and Melo settle for bad shots, play weak on defense and show a bad attitude, he should be on them. If he's relaying this information to Rosen, so bet it.

Phil's job isn't to make players play like champions anymore. His job is to assemble a roster that his coach can make play like champions. He has struggled being competent in most aspects of his new job. He had an unique approach to reach players when he was a coach and interacted with them on a daily basis. The success of tha approach has not transferred and is not a part of his new role as an executive.