This is absolutely a Danny Ainge kind of move.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/HoopsRumors/status/874035072684498945/actions

NardDogNation wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:5could we not just trade Melo to them for the first pick and Crowder amd whatever else it would take? I think the Knicks asked for that trade before the deadline?

Is that sarcasm?

The deep story behind Michael Jordan, Rod Higgins and Rich Cho is that Higgins was supposed to have an executive role above Cho, but under Jordan. Jordan and Higgins had a deep history spanning decades and a personal friendship. Also, at the time, there were a A LOT of former Don Nelson players or disciples in the league who were in key positions or had influence in key positions formerly ( Chris Mullin, Kevin Pritchard, Otis Smith, Poppovich, Donnie Nelson Jr, etc) Higgins had relationships with these guys as well.

Well, being the gigantic egomaniac that Jordan is/was, and that he's actually a proven pretty horrible talent evaluation as an exec and team runner, he'd tell Cho and Higgins to approach teams with bad offers. Just ugly offers that made no sense to the other team. Cho, after his experience in Portland under another psychotic egomaniac who has never heard the word No in the last few decades, Paul Allen, would say Sure, sure and then not actually do it. Higgins, however, did not have the deep training and scouting background of a Cho, and did what he as told. Eventually other teams froze him out. If they wanted to talk business, they talked to Cho. ( They don't want to deal with Jordan's ignorance of roster building and ego and Higgins had no real power)

Steve Phillips, the former Mets GM, who had that bizarre scandal where he was banging some bipolar intern, before it all blew up for him, talked about how some sports GMs basically hang their own careers. He was inferring I suspect the Baltimore Orioles at the time, where teams just didn't return the phone calls until after they actually did real business with other teams. Just a courtesy call with a soft excuse why the team went the other way, or sometimes no call back at all.

Phil Jackson came at the Timberwolves when Kevin Love was on the block. He offered STAT, Shumpert and a first round pick. Maybe something else small. Haha Phil, good one, we know you need to do your due diligence. Except, as the story goes, Jackson pressed it again, offering STAT as the centerpiece of the return. There's doing due diligence so you can say to your owner that you tried, to calm pissed off owners, then there's just being a jerk. Offering these kind of bad deals over and over is insulting to the other GMs. It's saying I think you are dumb and I don't care that I'm wasting your time and if you actually made this deal, you'd get fired for sure.

Ever have someone you know ONLY call you when they need something. And it's transparent otherwise?

Ever have someone you don't know, but are linked to someone you know, like their sibling or something, reach out to you for a favor, trying to broker that relationship into something for them?

At some point, you can't even be polite anymore, you just stop picking up the phone.

The REAL danger for the Knicks is when their team runner, Jackson, already unpopular with a lot of NBA people now and some sections of the media and some of the owners, keeps fireballing a bunch of clearly bad deals and bad offers at people. When you grind someone down to considering basic due diligence to talk to you, then you've burned out your rope with them. It's a bad look. It's bad for business.

I get people here want to talk about things, just stir up conversation, but if the Knicks actually started offering most things people here are suggesting all the time, they will get phased out. Just like Rod Higgins. People will not return their calls. They'll get that "reputation" as "that team" or "oh, that guy...."

Any closed off environment like the NBA marketplace, it does still come down to reputation and relationships. Just like real life outside the NBA. People are going to want to deal and help other teams who have established a positive win/win and respect and commonality in views. People are going to want to avoid a mentally and emotionally exhausting needler who doesn't understand the value structure lined up by everyone else in the group.

Let's just made a bad offer and see if it sticks. Sure, on a message board, who cares.

Do it in a real life, in a real pro sports marketplace, and you are writing your own punch out card. You are ending your own career.

The first overall pick in the NBA is rarely traded. But with the Kings, who generally make really poor marketplace decisions, anything is really possible. They might just overpay to keep the perpetually insane Vivek Ranadive happy.

TripleThreat wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:5could we not just trade Melo to them for the first pick and Crowder amd whatever else it would take? I think the Knicks asked for that trade before the deadline?

Is that sarcasm?

The deep story behind Michael Jordan, Rod Higgins and Rich Cho is that Higgins was supposed to have an executive role above Cho, but under Jordan. Jordan and Higgins had a deep history spanning decades and a personal friendship. Also, at the time, there were a A LOT of former Don Nelson players or disciples in the league who were in key positions or had influence in key positions formerly ( Chris Mullin, Kevin Pritchard, Otis Smith, Poppovich, Donnie Nelson Jr, etc) Higgins had relationships with these guys as well.

Well, being the gigantic egomaniac that Jordan is/was, and that he's actually a proven pretty horrible talent evaluation as an exec and team runner, he'd tell Cho and Higgins to approach teams with bad offers. Just ugly offers that made no sense to the other team. Cho, after his experience in Portland under another psychotic egomaniac who has never heard the word No in the last few decades, Paul Allen, would say Sure, sure and then not actually do it. Higgins, however, did not have the deep training and scouting background of a Cho, and did what he as told. Eventually other teams froze him out. If they wanted to talk business, they talked to Cho. ( They don't want to deal with Jordan's ignorance of roster building and ego and Higgins had no real power)

Steve Phillips, the former Mets GM, who had that bizarre scandal where he was banging some bipolar intern, before it all blew up for him, talked about how some sports GMs basically hang their own careers. He was inferring I suspect the Baltimore Orioles at the time, where teams just didn't return the phone calls until after they actually did real business with other teams. Just a courtesy call with a soft excuse why the team went the other way, or sometimes no call back at all.

Phil Jackson came at the Timberwolves when Kevin Love was on the block. He offered STAT, Shumpert and a first round pick. Maybe something else small. Haha Phil, good one, we know you need to do your due diligence. Except, as the story goes, Jackson pressed it again, offering STAT as the centerpiece of the return. There's doing due diligence so you can say to your owner that you tried, to calm pissed off owners, then there's just being a jerk. Offering these kind of bad deals over and over is insulting to the other GMs. It's saying I think you are dumb and I don't care that I'm wasting your time and if you actually made this deal, you'd get fired for sure.

Ever have someone you know ONLY call you when they need something. And it's transparent otherwise?

Ever have someone you don't know, but are linked to someone you know, like their sibling or something, reach out to you for a favor, trying to broker that relationship into something for them?

At some point, you can't even be polite anymore, you just stop picking up the phone.

The REAL danger for the Knicks is when their team runner, Jackson, already unpopular with a lot of NBA people now and some sections of the media and some of the owners, keeps fireballing a bunch of clearly bad deals and bad offers at people. When you grind someone down to considering basic due diligence to talk to you, then you've burned out your rope with them. It's a bad look. It's bad for business.

I get people here want to talk about things, just stir up conversation, but if the Knicks actually started offering most things people here are suggesting all the time, they will get phased out. Just like Rod Higgins. People will not return their calls. They'll get that "reputation" as "that team" or "oh, that guy...."

Any closed off environment like the NBA marketplace, it does still come down to reputation and relationships. Just like real life outside the NBA. People are going to want to deal and help other teams who have established a positive win/win and respect and commonality in views. People are going to want to avoid a mentally and emotionally exhausting needler who doesn't understand the value structure lined up by everyone else in the group.

Let's just made a bad offer and see if it sticks. Sure, on a message board, who cares.

Do it in a real life, in a real pro sports marketplace, and you are writing your own punch out card. You are ending your own career.

The first overall pick in the NBA is rarely traded. But with the Kings, who generally make really poor marketplace decisions, anything is really possible. They might just overpay to keep the perpetually insane Vivek Ranadive happy.

And that has been my primary concern with a Phil Jackson regime since he's got here. He'a cultivated such bad relationshipa over the years that it has made me wonder how effective he'd be in a capacity that requires a degree of smoozing. And when you combine that with no professional experience, I think you get the horrible trades we have made or possibly been excluded from entertaining. I hate being the guy that constantly is calling for management's head but I think we need to move on from Phil.

TripleThreat wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:5could we not just trade Melo to them for the first pick and Crowder amd whatever else it would take? I think the Knicks asked for that trade before the deadline?

Is that sarcasm?

The deep story behind Michael Jordan, Rod Higgins and Rich Cho is that Higgins was supposed to have an executive role above Cho, but under Jordan. Jordan and Higgins had a deep history spanning decades and a personal friendship. Also, at the time, there were a A LOT of former Don Nelson players or disciples in the league who were in key positions or had influence in key positions formerly ( Chris Mullin, Kevin Pritchard, Otis Smith, Poppovich, Donnie Nelson Jr, etc) Higgins had relationships with these guys as well.

Well, being the gigantic egomaniac that Jordan is/was, and that he's actually a proven pretty horrible talent evaluation as an exec and team runner, he'd tell Cho and Higgins to approach teams with bad offers. Just ugly offers that made no sense to the other team. Cho, after his experience in Portland under another psychotic egomaniac who has never heard the word No in the last few decades, Paul Allen, would say Sure, sure and then not actually do it. Higgins, however, did not have the deep training and scouting background of a Cho, and did what he as told. Eventually other teams froze him out. If they wanted to talk business, they talked to Cho. ( They don't want to deal with Jordan's ignorance of roster building and ego and Higgins had no real power)

Steve Phillips, the former Mets GM, who had that bizarre scandal where he was banging some bipolar intern, before it all blew up for him, talked about how some sports GMs basically hang their own careers. He was inferring I suspect the Baltimore Orioles at the time, where teams just didn't return the phone calls until after they actually did real business with other teams. Just a courtesy call with a soft excuse why the team went the other way, or sometimes no call back at all.

Phil Jackson came at the Timberwolves when Kevin Love was on the block. He offered STAT, Shumpert and a first round pick. Maybe something else small. Haha Phil, good one, we know you need to do your due diligence. Except, as the story goes, Jackson pressed it again, offering STAT as the centerpiece of the return. There's doing due diligence so you can say to your owner that you tried, to calm pissed off owners, then there's just being a jerk. Offering these kind of bad deals over and over is insulting to the other GMs. It's saying I think you are dumb and I don't care that I'm wasting your time and if you actually made this deal, you'd get fired for sure.

Ever have someone you know ONLY call you when they need something. And it's transparent otherwise?

Ever have someone you don't know, but are linked to someone you know, like their sibling or something, reach out to you for a favor, trying to broker that relationship into something for them?

At some point, you can't even be polite anymore, you just stop picking up the phone.

The REAL danger for the Knicks is when their team runner, Jackson, already unpopular with a lot of NBA people now and some sections of the media and some of the owners, keeps fireballing a bunch of clearly bad deals and bad offers at people. When you grind someone down to considering basic due diligence to talk to you, then you've burned out your rope with them. It's a bad look. It's bad for business.

I get people here want to talk about things, just stir up conversation, but if the Knicks actually started offering most things people here are suggesting all the time, they will get phased out. Just like Rod Higgins. People will not return their calls. They'll get that "reputation" as "that team" or "oh, that guy...."

Any closed off environment like the NBA marketplace, it does still come down to reputation and relationships. Just like real life outside the NBA. People are going to want to deal and help other teams who have established a positive win/win and respect and commonality in views. People are going to want to avoid a mentally and emotionally exhausting needler who doesn't understand the value structure lined up by everyone else in the group.

Let's just made a bad offer and see if it sticks. Sure, on a message board, who cares.

Do it in a real life, in a real pro sports marketplace, and you are writing your own punch out card. You are ending your own career.

The first overall pick in the NBA is rarely traded. But with the Kings, who generally make really poor marketplace decisions, anything is really possible. They might just overpay to keep the perpetually insane Vivek Ranadive happy.

Lovely. Who can say no to a sweet little conspiracy theory.

SupremeCommander wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

wargames wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Philly/Sac s the rumor I keep seeing.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/HoopsRumors/status/874035072684498945/actions

Its a great look for Philly. They could still get a great prospect at #5 and then grab a shooter at #10 like Kennard

Giving away two lottery picks to move up two spots does not seem to be a good idea.

I think it ultimately boils down to how teams and the Sixers view Monk... he's the perfect fit for their team. They don't need a guard who needs the ball, as Ben Simmons is going to have it a lot. Personally, I think they should draft BPA at 5 and Kennard at 10 but I keep hearing that there are a handful of teams that are super high on Monk

I think it makes great sense for the Sixers. I think it makes none, at all, for the Kings....but the Kings are idiots, so...

SupremeCommander wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

wargames wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Philly/Sac s the rumor I keep seeing.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/HoopsRumors/status/874035072684498945/actions

Its a great look for Philly. They could still get a great prospect at #5 and then grab a shooter at #10 like Kennard

Giving away two lottery picks to move up two spots does not seem to be a good idea.

I think it ultimately boils down to how teams and the Sixers view Monk... he's the perfect fit for their team. They don't need a guard who needs the ball, as Ben Simmons is going to have it a lot. Personally, I think they should draft BPA at 5 and Kennard at 10 but I keep hearing that there are a handful of teams that are super high on Monk

I am really getting drawn into this choice of guards. Not because I have strong opinions... I dont. I think of Monk/NTilikina/Smith/Mitchell all have all star potential and are totally different types of players. Ntilikina and Mitchell immediately boost defense and give us a true potential stopper on the wing. Frank at 6'6 with his 7 foot plus wingspan is the most tantalizing. Equally appealing is the idea of a PG who can work at will in the paint off dribble penetration (Smith). I wouldnt call Smith a pass first PG but he is surely the best playmaker of this bunch. Monk is a fearless firecracker but can run a team? Play any defense?

Crazy tough choices. All 4 of these players would be looked at as top picks in the KP draft. Russell may yet be really good, but in terms of ceiling etc these guys are right there. Exciting choices! I feel like this group has scouted and drafted well. They have a good group of talent to choose from IMO. I think we get a heck of a player at #8 (assuming plan is to stay there)

GustavBahler wrote:I would be surprised if Boston traded the pick unless they had reservations about Fultz and Ball. I doubt they will get the number one pick again soon. Its a great opportunity to possibly be set at PG (one way or another) for the next decade, or more. You don't pass up an opportunity like that IMO.

I'd also be surprised if Boston believes they can still get the player they might want at 5. Maybe 2 or 3.

I'm pretty sure they'll have a good chance at getting the #1 pick again next year because they have the Nets 1st rounder again.

NardDogNation wrote:

wargames wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Philly/Sac s the rumor I keep seeing.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/HoopsRumors/status/874035072684498945/actions

Its a great look for Philly. They could still get a great prospect at #5 and then grab a shooter at #10 like Kennard

Giving away two lottery picks to move up two spots does not seem to be a good idea.

Thank u .. So True!
I wish the Knicks had ....
The 5 spot (DSJ) and 10 spot (Isaac)

Speaking of the Celtics, Hayward's wife tweeted and deleted a pic that one could describe as celticish, lol. LeBron should be trying to bring Hayward to Cleveland, if anything as a defensive measure.

Love has had his moments, but they need another starter the other team has to expend energy chasing around. You would have three starters who are among the best at taking it to the rim, among other talents. They would match up better against speedier GS. If Hayward goes to the Celtics, LeBron is probably going to have to find somewhere else to play when his deal is up. That is unless he lands another Amigo.

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

wargames wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Philly/Sac s the rumor I keep seeing.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/HoopsRumors/status/874035072684498945/actions

Its a great look for Philly. They could still get a great prospect at #5 and then grab a shooter at #10 like Kennard

Giving away two lottery picks to move up two spots does not seem to be a good idea.

Hell no it doesn't. This lottery is too strong to trade two picks away for one.

Agreed. The only way I see it having legs is if Boston wants to move back off the 1st pick. The Kings have sucked in the draft and I can see how the certainty of a Markelle Fultz would appeal to them