newyorknewyork wrote:

wargames wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nixluva wrote:Seems like a viable option if Chicago gets creative and works a 3 team deal.

Chicago will have a ton of cap space. I'm not positive, but they can probably resign Wade and trade Rondo, Valentine, and the 16th pick for Melo if they renounce some of their lesser cap hold free agents. They have a ton of flexibility. That deal would be fair for both teams. Rondo would be cut. Valentine and #16 is a solid return.

I'd love that trade and it is very reasonable for both sides but the Bulls are betting against themselves in this scenario. What is the market for Melo that would force them to surrender assets?

I could see the Clippers moving a couple of their assets for Melo to try and encourage CP3 to stay but what would motivate the Bulls to do the same in absence of a competitor?

They want Butler to stay there and he wants to be competitive. I don't know if it's more complicated than that.

Its a no brainer for both teams. Bulls have Wade and Butler. If they can get a player like Melo for Valentine and #16 then they should do it. Odds are high that Valentine and #16 don't become more than quality role players who may even take 2-3 years until they are consistent contributors to a wining team. They go into next season probably win 47-50 games. Have all their future draft picks going forward. Still have a Bobby Portis who may be ready for the next step. Or maybe they package Portis and Grant for an upgrade at PG. Makes perfect sense for them given their situation.

The only question would be if Melo would be willing to waive his NTC for Chi.

I like it. Pick #16 might get us Kennard, Giles, Justin Jackson, TJ Leaf.

newyorknewyork wrote:Within this scenario though. Say the deal did go through. Giving us 8, 16 and now 40mil in space. I would look to eat Harkless and Aminu's contracts even without draft picks back. Or even use 16 for Harkless, Aminu and #20 if not #20 & #26. With the cap space freed up from the Melo deal we can go after FA Jrue Holiday. Draft Franky at 8. And an athletic, agile, defensive 4/5 at #16 or #20. Or trade #16 or #20 for future pick and right to swap another future pick. Then target the 4/5 in the 2nd rd. In the off season loom to move KOQ and Kuz for future asset.

New core
Noah/Willie/Pummlee
KP/Aminu/Draft pick
Harkless/Valinetine/Lance
Lee/Franky/Holiday
Holiday/Baker/Randle

That line up has the ability to switch on defense and multiple players can guard multiple positions. They all can shoot the 3. The ball movement from guys like Holiday, Franky, Valintine, Baker, Noah would be real. The defense at the 3-4 would be much improved. I really like the potential of Franky and Valinetine off the bench with Baker sprinkled in. That's 3 guys with the potential to give you 5 rebs, 5ast from the 1-3.

If you do the trade of #16 or #20 for future picks and right to swap. Plus moving KOQ and Kuz for,future assets. You may be able to have enough assets to create a package for a stud to be added to that core. Or maybe you land a lotto pick down the road.

I might bite at Harry Giles at #16 in your scenario. Why not shoot for the stars?

reub wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Within this scenario though. Say the deal did go through. Giving us 8, 16 and now 40mil in space. I would look to eat Harkless and Aminu's contracts even without draft picks back. Or even use 16 for Harkless, Aminu and #20 if not #20 & #26. With the cap space freed up from the Melo deal we can go after FA Jrue Holiday. Draft Franky at 8. And an athletic, agile, defensive 4/5 at #16 or #20. Or trade #16 or #20 for future pick and right to swap another future pick. Then target the 4/5 in the 2nd rd. In the off season loom to move KOQ and Kuz for future asset.

New core
Noah/Willie/Pummlee
KP/Aminu/Draft pick
Harkless/Valinetine/Lance
Lee/Franky/Holiday
Holiday/Baker/Randle

That line up has the ability to switch on defense and multiple players can guard multiple positions. They all can shoot the 3. The ball movement from guys like Holiday, Franky, Valintine, Baker, Noah would be real. The defense at the 3-4 would be much improved. I really like the potential of Franky and Valinetine off the bench with Baker sprinkled in. That's 3 guys with the potential to give you 5 rebs, 5ast from the 1-3.

If you do the trade of #16 or #20 for future picks and right to swap. Plus moving KOQ and Kuz for,future assets. You may be able to have enough assets to create a package for a stud to be added to that core. Or maybe you land a lotto pick down the road.

I might bite at Harry Giles at #16 in your scenario. Why not shoot for the stars?

What I would really like to do in that scenario is try and package Lee with #16 or #20 to target Mitchell (maybe Dertroit at #12 bites)as a backup to Holiday. Holiday, Franky, Harkless, KP, Noah. With Mitchell, Justin Holiday, Valentine, Aminu, Willie off the bench.

CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The Bulls would need Melo to get a buyout, Chris Paul to take a pay cut, and Wade to take a $5-10m to leave some money on the table to get a FA or two just to have a real chance at making a real run.

If I am a suitor for Melo, I wait to see if he is bought out. There are hardly any trade options that work with his salary, trade kicker and ntc. If I am Melo and I want out, I sit tight and wait to see if a buyout is offered. I also can't imagine Melo helping Phil out financially after the press conference.

When has Melo ever left money on the table? ( the few bucks he didn't take when Jackson challenged him to do so was a PR move at best, not a real sacrifice of dollars, the trade kicker essentially bought that money back for Melo)

A buyout is supposed to work both ways. The team saves on a cash hit. The player gets his freedom to sign with the team of his choice. Since he can then sign for the vet minimum on a new team, he can literally pick any contender and not gut their roster.

Freedom versus no freedom, who said it would come at no cost to Melo?

Melo WANTS IT ALL. He wants to go to a contender where he has a clear and important role. He wants max money and all his cash locked in. He wants to go to a big market for his "branding" He wants to go to a team that isn't gutted on the way in so it can contend.

When Kobe Bryant tried to force his way to Chicago, finally Charles Barkley said the truth. He said Kobe has to stop being an idiot. You can't have it all. Kobe wanted to go to the Bulls, with a roster the way he wanted it, getting every last single dollar and have the Lakers be OK with whatever was left in trade spare parts to make the deal. Barkley said, you gotta give up something, you can't demand every single thing and have it all your way if you want to go where you want to go.

Then again, Melo was dumb enough to go to Chris Pauls wedding and insult Pauls then current owner and family by toasting about a new "Big 3" to rival the Heat. He thought after gutting the Knicks assets to get every last single dollar, that a Landry Fields package would make a trade happen and somehow Chris Paul would leave tens of millions on the table to play with two no defense chuckers in Stat and Melo who played the exact same position.

In the sports media, on a slow day, they just create stories out of thin air. Someone sticks a mic in Butlers face, do you think Melo is a great player, would he be great to play with? What is he supposed to say? What else is supposed to say except Melo is wonderful and I love him and he's a great choice for a teammate? Reporter either gets his story that Butler wants Melo ( as Leon Rose demands and set up here) or Butler hesitates and now there's a new story that Butler hates Melo and doesn't want him. Either way, it's a headline.

Your boss calls you into his office. His boss is there as well. The guy's nephew works in your division. How is the kid doing, is he doing great?

Uh... sure... he's DOING GREAT! ( What else are you supposed to say?)

Your wife doesn't look fat in that dress!

Your buddies ugly kid is a stunner and could be a model for a Target ad!

Your mother in laws cooking is great!

Wow, your neighbors 10 year old daughter who wants to be a pop star, you think her voice is fantastic, even if the cat is screaming and begging to be shot in the face from the wailing.

People say things to avoid conflict.

Let's try it, right now.

- Briggs, you are right, everyone else here is wrong. Nate Wolters could change the tide of any team, if Christian Wood was with him.

- Nixluva, you have a point. There's no need to consult any part of current NBA draft or trade history ever. Dude, you are NOT the most passive aggressive troll on this board.

- EnySpree, I'm asking myself, why aren't you starting your 7th post of the day. The first 6 are groundbreaking thoughts. Like let's make a trade that gets the other teams front office fired. Why not do it twice!

- blkexec, yes, you could have maybe played in the NBA. You do know EXACTLY what NBA veterans are going through even though you have never played in the NBA. I think blaming the fans is a fantastic way to show it's not all about you. No, your narcissism does not make a Cluster B woman with Borderline Personality Disorder seem almost rational when she's chasing someone with a fire axe in contrast. Let's take you to the Home Depot, in the section where they sell bathroom mirrors, so you can really enjoy yourself. I can take a four hour nap and get some real rest. When I wake up, you'll still be staring at yourself, cooing and chanting "You are the best. You are the best. Damn, you are straight up sexy. Sexy and you know it!"

Yes, every NBA player with a mic shoved in his face is going to say exactly what he means and exactly what he thinks without considering the kind of blowup that can happen if he just said what he really thought.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ThomasCDee/status/871004134119530498

wargames wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nixluva wrote:Seems like a viable option if Chicago gets creative and works a 3 team deal.

Chicago will have a ton of cap space. I'm not positive, but they can probably resign Wade and trade Rondo, Valentine, and the 16th pick for Melo if they renounce some of their lesser cap hold free agents. They have a ton of flexibility. That deal would be fair for both teams. Rondo would be cut. Valentine and #16 is a solid return.

I'd love that trade and it is very reasonable for both sides but the Bulls are betting against themselves in this scenario. What is the market for Melo that would force them to surrender assets?

I could see the Clippers moving a couple of their assets for Melo to try and encourage CP3 to stay but what would motivate the Bulls to do the same in absence of a competitor?

They want Butler to stay there and he wants to be competitive. I don't know if it's more complicated than that.

Butler's still under contract for 3 more seasons. They are under no real obligation to placate him. That's not to say that I don't think the Bulls would have interest in Melo because I think they would. I just don't see them giving up blue chip assets like the 16th pick in a deep draft to get the deal done. Why would they? What other teams are out there that Melo really wants to go to and who are willing to drive up the price for his services? The Bulls are in a unique position, where they could simply absorb his contract and not have to send anything back to make the deal work financially. Because of that, I don't see us getting anything of substantive value in return like we would in a potential Clippers deal.

After all, we've just seen DeMarcus Cousins get traded for a previously overrrated rookie (Buddy Hield) and the 10th pick in this draft, as one of the best players in the league. It's clear that trades are not formulated based on talent alone; leverage plays a big factor. And in this scenario with the Bulls, we'd have no leverage.

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The Bulls would need Melo to get a buyout, Chris Paul to take a pay cut, and Wade to take a $5-10m to leave some money on the table to get a FA or two just to have a real chance at making a real run.

If I am a suitor for Melo, I wait to see if he is bought out. There are hardly any trade options that work with his salary, trade kicker and ntc. If I am Melo and I want out, I sit tight and wait to see if a buyout is offered. I also can't imagine Melo helping Phil out financially after the press conference.

When has Melo ever left money on the table? ( the few bucks he didn't take when Jackson challenged him to do so was a PR move at best, not a real sacrifice of dollars, the trade kicker essentially bought that money back for Melo)

A buyout is supposed to work both ways. The team saves on a cash hit. The player gets his freedom to sign with the team of his choice. Since he can then sign for the vet minimum on a new team, he can literally pick any contender and not gut their roster.

Freedom versus no freedom, who said it would come at no cost to Melo?

Melo WANTS IT ALL. He wants to go to a contender where he has a clear and important role. He wants max money and all his cash locked in. He wants to go to a big market for his "branding" He wants to go to a team that isn't gutted on the way in so it can contend.

When Kobe Bryant tried to force his way to Chicago, finally Charles Barkley said the truth. He said Kobe has to stop being an idiot. You can't have it all. Kobe wanted to go to the Bulls, with a roster the way he wanted it, getting every last single dollar and have the Lakers be OK with whatever was left in trade spare parts to make the deal. Barkley said, you gotta give up something, you can't demand every single thing and have it all your way if you want to go where you want to go.

Then again, Melo was dumb enough to go to Chris Pauls wedding and insult Pauls then current owner and family by toasting about a new "Big 3" to rival the Heat. He thought after gutting the Knicks assets to get every last single dollar, that a Landry Fields package would make a trade happen and somehow Chris Paul would leave tens of millions on the table to play with two no defense chuckers in Stat and Melo who played the exact same position.

In the sports media, on a slow day, they just create stories out of thin air. Someone sticks a mic in Butlers face, do you think Melo is a great player, would he be great to play with? What is he supposed to say? What else is supposed to say except Melo is wonderful and I love him and he's a great choice for a teammate? Reporter either gets his story that Butler wants Melo ( as Leon Rose demands and set up here) or Butler hesitates and now there's a new story that Butler hates Melo and doesn't want him. Either way, it's a headline.

Your boss calls you into his office. His boss is there as well. The guy's nephew works in your division. How is the kid doing, is he doing great?

Uh... sure... he's DOING GREAT! ( What else are you supposed to say?)

Your wife doesn't look fat in that dress!

Your buddies ugly kid is a stunner and could be a model for a Target ad!

Your mother in laws cooking is great!

Wow, your neighbors 10 year old daughter who wants to be a pop star, you think her voice is fantastic, even if the cat is screaming and begging to be shot in the face from the wailing.

People say things to avoid conflict.

Let's try it, right now.

- Briggs, you are right, everyone else here is wrong. Nate Wolters could change the tide of any team, if Christian Wood was with him.

- Nixluva, you have a point. There's no need to consult any part of current NBA draft or trade history ever. Dude, you are NOT the most passive aggressive troll on this board.

- EnySpree, I'm asking myself, why aren't you starting your 7th post of the day. The first 6 are groundbreaking thoughts. Like let's make a trade that gets the other teams front office fired. Why not do it twice!

- blkexec, yes, you could have maybe played in the NBA. You do know EXACTLY what NBA veterans are going through even though you have never played in the NBA. I think blaming the fans is a fantastic way to show it's not all about you. No, your narcissism does not make a Cluster B woman with Borderline Personality Disorder seem almost rational when she's chasing someone with a fire axe in contrast. Let's take you to the Home Depot, in the section where they sell bathroom mirrors, so you can really enjoy yourself. I can take a four hour nap and get some real rest. When I wake up, you'll still be staring at yourself, cooing and chanting "You are the best. You are the best. Damn, you are straight up sexy. Sexy and you know it!"

Yes, every NBA player with a mic shoved in his face is going to say exactly what he means and exactly what he thinks without considering the kind of blowup that can happen if he just said what he really thought.

-- Hey Triplethreat, wow, I really am the only one reading all this shit!

The will to win. If Melo wants to win, he can get bought out and be free. If he wants his money, he can stay, or try to get a mutually beneficial trade.
He can accept perhaps a city not so grand, but what is the benefit? Money, Nope, he will have his contract. Lifestyle? Cleveland? Minneapolis? Milwaukee? Why go there? Winning.
Phil basically shamed him into "Winning".

Buy out makes him a free agent. What is his worth as a free agent now? Knicks should only offer to make up the difference. That benefits knicks, and benefits Melo. Win-win.
Again, Wade got 42 mil over two years and Melo is a better player currently. Knicks owe 56mil over two years.

Knicks can spread that over 5 years. Bascially if melo can get 20mil for two years somewhere, knicks owe 16 mil, divided by 5, thats $3.2mil a year on our cap. Win.
Thats just me throwing out numbers, not making a prediction or setting his value. I don't know.
Im not as smart as most of you.
Why wouldn't a team wait for this? A trade. Basically teams still have contracts they want to move and can be of value to us. Some teams don't have cap space for him, and there might be some competition for his services. Can't just wait on it.

Melo holds all the cards until the coach decides who plays and who does not. It makes no sense or logic for either to get into a standoff were Melo holds his ground and team plays him off the bench. That should be on a contending team. Most players are happy to move on when rebuilding. Pierce and Garnett im sure did not really care about draft picks Boston received, they cared about continuing a career being relevant and contending. Pierce moved twice to continue. Melo is still very relevant but its all about "Winning" vs. living in NYC.