newyorknewyork wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I dont like 8. Id like to see us offer Portland 8 for 15-20-26

Reminds me of the 1996 draft. If the Knicks had the 8th pick they would've had access to Kobe Bryant, Peja Stojakovic, Steve Nash or Jermaine O'Neal. They did have picks 18, 19, and 21 and ended up with John Wallace, Walter McCarty, and Dontae Jones, meaning they pretty much ended up with nothing.

I'll take one high pick over a quantity of low first round picks every single time.

This isn't the NFL. Trading down rarely works out in the NBA. I still wouldn't have too much a problem, but it's to far out to forecast who will be available. I'd keep the lines of communication open and see if such a trade makes sense on draft night.

Nets traded down from #7 (Eddie Griffin) for #13(Richard Jefferson), #18(Jason Collins), #23(Brandon Armstrong)

Jefferson proved to be the better NBA player alone. But other players available for Nets to draft around 13-23 = Zach Randolph, Brendon Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert, Jamal Tinsley, Toney Parker, Gilbert Arenas.

That's one instance in which trading down worked out, with no proven veteran players involved. Sure, it can work, but the odds aren't in our favor. I'm not completely against the idea. But it's tough for me to say trading down is the right move this far out from draft day.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I dont like 8. Id like to see us offer Portland 8 for 15-20-26

Briggs, multiple picks means you can spread risk and take some chances. Also increases the odds of finding something.
But at no. 8 you have a real chance. Khawai, Lillard.........etc type of chance.

This is where all your talents come together Briggs. Its easy to spread it out, but now you have to make a pick soon.

Whose your guy? Just one. One guy to say "Told you so"!!
or......
one guy we can forever call you out on!!

Nobody said this was an easy job. One guy, one pick.

have you looked at the last 10players taking at number 8

2016-marquess chriss - very good player
2015-stanley Johnson - Very good player. Myles Turner also available.
2014-nic stauskus - weak draft but Saric was still available
2013-terrence ross - Drummond was on board and picked next
2012-cadwell pope - CJ McCollum was picked 10. He's a stud. Giannis Adetokoubo was available. Hear of him? Steve Adams...
2011-brandon McKnight - Klay Thompson and Kawhi Leonard were on the board. Heard of them?
2010-Al-forouq Amniu---haywood and Paul G 9th and 10th
2009-Jordan Hill- demarcus Rozen came 9th

8th has produce role players for the most part

Im sorry but this post proves what? So far in those drafts you listed there has been all star talent in almost every draft. If the 8th pick stunk it was because the team picked wrong, NOT because "8th has produce role players for the most part"

Its on the Knicks to pick the right player. They have drafted well. This should be a good addition.

I didn't say there were no good players after or before 8th, I don't have any remote reason why that happens, but you can't argue what's been proven. Can that change, of course it can, anything can happen. But if im looking at 8 and not at least take into consideration it really hasn't produce any all stars for what ever reason, im not doing my due diligence.

The only due diligence that has any relevence is what level of talent is available at 8. Who was picked there in the past doesnt factor in team's drafting history (are they any good?), doesnt factor in team needs (did a team pass a on more talented player because of their roster fit?)... I mean just looking at who was taking at 8 doesnt accomplish much. You need to look at what level of talent is there.

The eighth pick is hit or miss. I might consider packaging Melo and the pick for another player. Here's a historical list of player's picked 8 by draft express:

Highest PER: 20.2 Brandan Wright, 17.4 Andre Miller, 16.6 Rudy Gay, 16.2 Jordan Hill, 15.6 Chris Wilcox

Median PER 12.5 Al-Farouq Aminu, 12.4 Adonal Foyle, 12.3 Marquese Chriss, 12.0 Terrence Ross, 11.6 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Lowest PER 5.2 Shawn Respert, 1.4 Todd Day, 0.0 Bo Kimble, 0.0 Randy White, 0.0 Mark Macon

HALL OF FAMERS: Robert Parish (2003) Thomas Sanders (2011) Sam Jones (1984)

ALL STARS Vin Baker x4, Detlef Schrempf x3, Tom Chambers x4, Andrew Toney x2, Calvin Natt x1, Jack Sikma x7, Robert Parish x9, Campy Russell x1, Geoff Petrie x2

2016 Suns Marquese Chriss too early to tell
2015 Pistons Stanley Johnson too early to tell
2014 Kings Nik Stauskas too early to tell
2013 Pistons Kentavious Caldwell-Pope too early to tell
2012 Raptors Terrence Ross backup
2011 Pistons Brandon Knight starter
2010 Clippers Al-Farouq Aminu starter
2009 Knicks Jordan Hill backup
2008 Bucks Joe Alexander end of bench
2007 Warriors Brandan Wright backup
2006 Grizzlies Rudy Gay starter
2005 Knicks Channing Frye starter
2004 Raptors Rafael Araujo end of bench
2003 Bucks T.J. Ford starter
2002 Clippers Chris Wilcox backup
2001 Cavaliers Desagana Diop backup
2000 Bulls Jamal Crawford starter
1999 Cavaliers Andre Miller starter
1998 76ers Larry Hughes starter
1997 Warriors Adonal Foyle backup
1996 Nets Kerry Kittles starter
1995 Bucks Shawn Respert end of bench
1994 Kings Brian Grant starter
1993 Bucks Vin Baker all star

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I dont like 8. Id like to see us offer Portland 8 for 15-20-26

Briggs, multiple picks means you can spread risk and take some chances. Also increases the odds of finding something.
But at no. 8 you have a real chance. Khawai, Lillard.........etc type of chance.

This is where all your talents come together Briggs. Its easy to spread it out, but now you have to make a pick soon.

Whose your guy? Just one. One guy to say "Told you so"!!
or......
one guy we can forever call you out on!!

Nobody said this was an easy job. One guy, one pick.

have you looked at the last 10players taking at number 8

2016-marquess chriss - very good player
2015-stanley Johnson - Very good player. Myles Turner also available.
2014-nic stauskus - weak draft but Saric was still available
2013-terrence ross - Drummond was on board and picked next
2012-cadwell pope - CJ McCollum was picked 10. He's a stud. Giannis Adetokoubo was available. Hear of him? Steve Adams...
2011-brandon McKnight - Klay Thompson and Kawhi Leonard were on the board. Heard of them?
2010-Al-forouq Amniu---haywood and Paul G 9th and 10th
2009-Jordan Hill- demarcus Rozen came 9th

8th has produce role players for the most part

Im sorry but this post proves what? So far in those drafts you listed there has been all star talent in almost every draft. If the 8th pick stunk it was because the team picked wrong, NOT because "8th has produce role players for the most part"

Its on the Knicks to pick the right player. They have drafted well. This should be a good addition.

+1

Doesn't the draft create mostly busts and role players? I would think that the lottery itself creates mostly role players.

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I dont like 8. Id like to see us offer Portland 8 for 15-20-26

Briggs, multiple picks means you can spread risk and take some chances. Also increases the odds of finding something.
But at no. 8 you have a real chance. Khawai, Lillard.........etc type of chance.

This is where all your talents come together Briggs. Its easy to spread it out, but now you have to make a pick soon.

Whose your guy? Just one. One guy to say "Told you so"!!
or......
one guy we can forever call you out on!!

Nobody said this was an easy job. One guy, one pick.

have you looked at the last 10players taking at number 8

2016-marquess chriss - very good player
2015-stanley Johnson - Very good player. Myles Turner also available.
2014-nic stauskus - weak draft but Saric was still available
2013-terrence ross - Drummond was on board and picked next
2012-cadwell pope - CJ McCollum was picked 10. He's a stud. Giannis Adetokoubo was available. Hear of him? Steve Adams...
2011-brandon McKnight - Klay Thompson and Kawhi Leonard were on the board. Heard of them?
2010-Al-forouq Amniu---haywood and Paul G 9th and 10th
2009-Jordan Hill- demarcus Rozen came 9th

8th has produce role players for the most part

Im sorry but this post proves what? So far in those drafts you listed there has been all star talent in almost every draft. If the 8th pick stunk it was because the team picked wrong, NOT because "8th has produce role players for the most part"

Its on the Knicks to pick the right player. They have drafted well. This should be a good addition.

I didn't say there were no good players after or before 8th, I don't have any remote reason why that happens, but you can't argue what's been proven. Can that change, of course it can, anything can happen. But if im looking at 8 and not at least take into consideration it really hasn't produce any all stars for what ever reason, im not doing my due diligence.

The only due diligence that has any relevence is what level of talent is available at 8. Who was picked there in the past doesnt factor in team's drafting history (are they any good?), doesnt factor in team needs (did a team pass a on more talented player because of their roster fit?)... I mean just looking at who was taking at 8 doesnt accomplish much. You need to look at what level of talent is there.

The eighth pick is hit or miss. I might consider packaging Melo and the pick for another player. Here's a historical list of player's picked 8 by draft express:

Highest PER: 20.2 Brandan Wright, 17.4 Andre Miller, 16.6 Rudy Gay, 16.2 Jordan Hill, 15.6 Chris Wilcox

Median PER 12.5 Al-Farouq Aminu, 12.4 Adonal Foyle, 12.3 Marquese Chriss, 12.0 Terrence Ross, 11.6 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Lowest PER 5.2 Shawn Respert, 1.4 Todd Day, 0.0 Bo Kimble, 0.0 Randy White, 0.0 Mark Macon

HALL OF FAMERS: Robert Parish (2003) Thomas Sanders (2011) Sam Jones (1984)

ALL STARS Vin Baker x4, Detlef Schrempf x3, Tom Chambers x4, Andrew Toney x2, Calvin Natt x1, Jack Sikma x7, Robert Parish x9, Campy Russell x1, Geoff Petrie x2

2016 Suns Marquese Chriss too early to tell
2015 Pistons Stanley Johnson too early to tell
2014 Kings Nik Stauskas too early to tell
2013 Pistons Kentavious Caldwell-Pope too early to tell
2012 Raptors Terrence Ross backup
2011 Pistons Brandon Knight starter
2010 Clippers Al-Farouq Aminu starter
2009 Knicks Jordan Hill backup
2008 Bucks Joe Alexander end of bench
2007 Warriors Brandan Wright backup
2006 Grizzlies Rudy Gay starter
2005 Knicks Channing Frye starter
2004 Raptors Rafael Araujo end of bench
2003 Bucks T.J. Ford starter
2002 Clippers Chris Wilcox backup
2001 Cavaliers Desagana Diop backup
2000 Bulls Jamal Crawford starter
1999 Cavaliers Andre Miller starter
1998 76ers Larry Hughes starter
1997 Warriors Adonal Foyle backup
1996 Nets Kerry Kittles starter
1995 Bucks Shawn Respert end of bench
1994 Kings Brian Grant starter
1993 Bucks Vin Baker all star

If you want to gauge the "value" of the pick based on history here is what you need to look at:
http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

If you look at the actual data you can see picks 6,7,8,9 and 10 are almost identical in value. What happens is the scouting gets tougher and teams simply make more mistakes in this range.

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I dont like 8. Id like to see us offer Portland 8 for 15-20-26

Reminds me of the 1996 draft. If the Knicks had the 8th pick they would've had access to Kobe Bryant, Peja Stojakovic, Steve Nash or Jermaine O'Neal. They did have picks 18, 19, and 21 and ended up with John Wallace, Walter McCarty, and Dontae Jones, meaning they pretty much ended up with nothing.

I'll take one high pick over a quantity of low first round picks every single time.

This isn't the NFL. Trading down rarely works out in the NBA. I still wouldn't have too much a problem, but it's to far out to forecast who will be available. I'd keep the lines of communication open and see if such a trade makes sense on draft night.

Nets traded down from #7 (Eddie Griffin) for #13(Richard Jefferson), #18(Jason Collins), #23(Brandon Armstrong)

Jefferson proved to be the better NBA player alone. But other players available for Nets to draft around 13-23 = Zach Randolph, Brendon Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert, Jamal Tinsley, Toney Parker, Gilbert Arenas.

That's one instance in which trading down worked out, with no proven veteran players involved. Sure, it can work, but the odds aren't in our favor. I'm not completely against the idea. But it's tough for me to say trading down is the right move this far out from draft day.

You provided one instance, so I provided one instance. There have been plenty of players take late in the draft that have turn out to be studs that if a team traded down would have been able to land them and more. Today with all the one and done players and way more international prospects a draft board talent has fluctuated way more then in the past.

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I dont like 8. Id like to see us offer Portland 8 for 15-20-26

Reminds me of the 1996 draft. If the Knicks had the 8th pick they would've had access to Kobe Bryant, Peja Stojakovic, Steve Nash or Jermaine O'Neal. They did have picks 18, 19, and 21 and ended up with John Wallace, Walter McCarty, and Dontae Jones, meaning they pretty much ended up with nothing.

I'll take one high pick over a quantity of low first round picks every single time.

This isn't the NFL. Trading down rarely works out in the NBA. I still wouldn't have too much a problem, but it's to far out to forecast who will be available. I'd keep the lines of communication open and see if such a trade makes sense on draft night.

Nets traded down from #7 (Eddie Griffin) for #13(Richard Jefferson), #18(Jason Collins), #23(Brandon Armstrong)

Jefferson proved to be the better NBA player alone. But other players available for Nets to draft around 13-23 = Zach Randolph, Brendon Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert, Jamal Tinsley, Toney Parker, Gilbert Arenas.

That's one instance in which trading down worked out, with no proven veteran players involved. Sure, it can work, but the odds aren't in our favor. I'm not completely against the idea. But it's tough for me to say trading down is the right move this far out from draft day.

You provided one instance, so I provided one instance. There have been plenty of players take late in the draft that have turn out to be studs that if a team traded down would have been able to land them and more. Today with all the one and done players and way more international prospects a draft board talent has fluctuated way more then in the past.

Not saying it's not possible. But it would be too early in the game for me to sign off on something like that. I'm not even sure who will be available for us at 8, forget about the later part of the draft. Has the staff even worked out half the players their interested in?

That I agree with. I dont want to trade down at this moment either.