Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:The thing with the triangle is that it is based on series of reads. The process can also be sped up. The triangle can never be out dated it works based on execution of the reads.

It's a great system, if you got the right talent and coaching staff, running it without that, your a joke

The system has been around nearly 80 yrs! It has been run by all kinds of rosters and different coaches. So you're mistaken in your assessment of the Triangle.

when you talk about any of the other 29 team do you mention or hear anything about the triangle.

Did you hear toronto say anything about Lowry not being able to commit to the triangle, or the the thunder wanting westbrook back to play in their triangle sets, or Aldridge is a perfect fit for the spurs triangle, or Curry runs the triangle for GSW like no other.

Only when it comes to knicks. One thing is for certain, you will not master the fundamentals of the system if your not 100% vested in it across the boards. That means a excellent teacher who knows the ins and outs(when to get in and when to get out), and how to communicate it to the players. Do we have that?

The Triangle has been taught and coached by many different coaches from High School to College to the NBA! We have enough coaching to get the job done! Phil said the kids were starting to get the hang of Jeff's version of the Triangle which is a blend of his Early Offense schemes and some Triangle!

If you watched all of the games then you would know that the team was getting the hang of Jeff's Triangle Offense. There was resistance to learning the Triangle portion of the offense but by the end of the season that wasn't a problem anymore.

Nix you can keep telling him until your blue in the face. The man isn't gonna change his opinion. Honestly it's not gonna work. He has made up his mind about everything Phil Jackson.

That's not true, and when your saying end of the bench guys were getting it around the last 6 games and still losing, then you know you have to upgrade the talent, which is what he said he was going to do. Rose, melo, kp, lance, noah barely played at all, and that was suppose to be the core of the roster, if holiday walks, and lance gets traded, it's going to be a learning curve for who you bring in AGAIN.

Upgrading the roster means a new set of players, if phil could get better talent than baker, randle and Kuz, what does it mean for that group that was getting it..BYE Bye or a major reduce role, and now you have new set of players that's going to need a ton of time to get it.

The only way that system works is if you keep the same 7 to 8 core guys and keep working at it every dam minute of the day.

NIX, jeffs version of the TRIANGLE was the first 2 months of the season(when where winning)and i loved it, when that wasn't working consistently they went back to phils full version of the basic triangle fundamentals.

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:The thing with the triangle is that it is based on series of reads. The process can also be sped up. The triangle can never be out dated it works based on execution of the reads.

It's a great system, if you got the right talent and coaching staff, running it without that, your a joke

The system has been around nearly 80 yrs! It has been run by all kinds of rosters and different coaches. So you're mistaken in your assessment of the Triangle.

when you talk about any of the other 29 team do you mention or hear anything about the triangle.

Did you hear toronto say anything about Lowry not being able to commit to the triangle, or the the thunder wanting westbrook back to play in their triangle sets, or Aldridge is a perfect fit for the spurs triangle, or Curry runs the triangle for GSW like no other.

Only when it comes to knicks. One thing is for certain, you will not master the fundamentals of the system if your not 100% vested in it across the boards. That means a excellent teacher who knows the ins and outs(when to get in and when to get out), and how to communicate it to the players. Do we have that?

The Triangle has been taught and coached by many different coaches from High School to College to the NBA! We have enough coaching to get the job done! Phil said the kids were starting to get the hang of Jeff's version of the Triangle which is a blend of his Early Offense schemes and some Triangle!

If you watched all of the games then you would know that the team was getting the hang of Jeff's Triangle Offense. There was resistance to learning the Triangle portion of the offense but by the end of the season that wasn't a problem anymore.

Nix you can keep telling him until your blue in the face. The man isn't gonna change his opinion. Honestly it's not gonna work. He has made up his mind about everything Phil Jackson.

That's not true, and when your saying end of the bench guys were getting it around the last 6 games and still losing, then you know you have to upgrade the talent, which is what he said he was going to do. Rose, melo, kp, lance, noah barely played at all, and that was suppose to be the core of the roster, if holiday walks, and lance gets traded, it's going to be a learning curve for who you bring in AGAIN.

Upgrading the roster means a new set of players, if phil could get better talent than baker, randle and Kuz, what does it mean for that group that was getting it..BYE Bye or a major reduce role, and now you have new set of players that's going to need a ton of time to get it.

The only way that system works is if you keep the same 7 to 8 core guys and keep working at it every dam minute of the day.

NIX, jeffs version of the TRIANGLE was the first 2 months of the season(when where winning)and i loved it, when that wasn't working consistently they went back to phils full version of the basic triangle fundamentals.

Obviously you fail to accept that the Knicks are building a NEW CORE of young players for the long term! Clearly those 20 something players will play together for a long period of time as they grow together. The Knicks will have some continuity going into next season as well but this is a LONG TERM PROCESS and so there's no rush.

Don't you see the logic of rebuilding with young players in their early 20's and developing them in this system for the long term?

As for Jeff's version of the Triangle the Knicks Jeff decided not to install as much Triangle early because of Rose missing time due to his trial.

NY Daily News- For the last week and for an indefinite period moving forward, the Knicks are trying to teach an offense without their point guard. It’s not as though Derrick Rose is on the sideline injured and still capable of absorbing these lessons — he’s sitting 2,500 miles away preoccupied with a civil trial. The balance of preparing his team and not wanting Rose to fall too far behind has prompted coach Jeff Hornacek to “stall” the installation of his offense. “So we don’t go over it again when he’s here,” the coach said.

To compensate for his absence, Hornacek has worked on other aspects of the game – timeout plays, end-of-game plays, rotation combinations, defense. It further complicates things that Rose will command the ball when he returns, directing the offense and distributing. More than anybody, he needs a strong understanding of Hornacek’s “Triangle Aspects” system. “As the point guard, you’re going to have to be the guy who sees everything, you’re the one who is going to have to make a decision,” Hornacek said.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:The thing with the triangle is that it is based on series of reads. The process can also be sped up. The triangle can never be out dated it works based on execution of the reads.

It's a great system, if you got the right talent and coaching staff, running it without that, your a joke

The system has been around nearly 80 yrs! It has been run by all kinds of rosters and different coaches. So you're mistaken in your assessment of the Triangle.

when you talk about any of the other 29 team do you mention or hear anything about the triangle.

Did you hear toronto say anything about Lowry not being able to commit to the triangle, or the the thunder wanting westbrook back to play in their triangle sets, or Aldridge is a perfect fit for the spurs triangle, or Curry runs the triangle for GSW like no other.

Only when it comes to knicks. One thing is for certain, you will not master the fundamentals of the system if your not 100% vested in it across the boards. That means a excellent teacher who knows the ins and outs(when to get in and when to get out), and how to communicate it to the players. Do we have that?

The Triangle has been taught and coached by many different coaches from High School to College to the NBA! We have enough coaching to get the job done! Phil said the kids were starting to get the hang of Jeff's version of the Triangle which is a blend of his Early Offense schemes and some Triangle!

If you watched all of the games then you would know that the team was getting the hang of Jeff's Triangle Offense. There was resistance to learning the Triangle portion of the offense but by the end of the season that wasn't a problem anymore.

Nix you can keep telling him until your blue in the face. The man isn't gonna change his opinion. Honestly it's not gonna work. He has made up his mind about everything Phil Jackson.

That's not true, and when your saying end of the bench guys were getting it around the last 6 games and still losing, then you know you have to upgrade the talent, which is what he said he was going to do. Rose, melo, kp, lance, noah barely played at all, and that was suppose to be the core of the roster, if holiday walks, and lance gets traded, it's going to be a learning curve for who you bring in AGAIN.

Upgrading the roster means a new set of players, if phil could get better talent than baker, randle and Kuz, what does it mean for that group that was getting it..BYE Bye or a major reduce role, and now you have new set of players that's going to need a ton of time to get it.

The only way that system works is if you keep the same 7 to 8 core guys and keep working at it every dam minute of the day.

NIX, jeffs version of the TRIANGLE was the first 2 months of the season(when where winning)and i loved it, when that wasn't working consistently they went back to phils full version of the basic triangle fundamentals.

Obviously you fail to accept that the Knicks are building a NEW CORE of young players for the long term! Clearly those 20 something players will play together for a long period of time as they grow together. The Knicks will have some continuity going into next season as well but this is a LONG TERM PROCESS and so there's no rush.

Don't you see the logic of rebuilding with young players in their early 20's and developing them in this system for the long term?

As for Jeff's version of the Triangle the Knicks Jeff decided not to install as much Triangle early because of Rose missing time due to his trial.

NY Daily News- For the last week and for an indefinite period moving forward, the Knicks are trying to teach an offense without their point guard. It’s not as though Derrick Rose is on the sideline injured and still capable of absorbing these lessons — he’s sitting 2,500 miles away preoccupied with a civil trial. The balance of preparing his team and not wanting Rose to fall too far behind has prompted coach Jeff Hornacek to “stall” the installation of his offense. “So we don’t go over it again when he’s here,” the coach said.

To compensate for his absence, Hornacek has worked on other aspects of the game – timeout plays, end-of-game plays, rotation combinations, defense. It further complicates things that Rose will command the ball when he returns, directing the offense and distributing. More than anybody, he needs a strong understanding of Hornacek’s “Triangle Aspects” system. “As the point guard, you’re going to have to be the guy who sees everything, you’re the one who is going to have to make a decision,” Hornacek said.

http://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/jeff-hornacek-waiting-to-install-the-knicks-offense-until-derrick-rose-returns-from-his-trial-seems-like-a-bad-idea-no/

I don't care how you rebuild, as long as you're winning doing it, and in order to do that you have to have a balance roster, not like phili (20 yr olds) and not like the clippers (30 yrs old). If you're not winning with the players you have, you're going to trade them or let them walk, or else we would be standing Pat this offseason and building on what we have. I should not hear the president of the franchise say, anyone on the roster can be traded.

At the end of the day, we all want the knicks to win, you just have a different approach, and you hope for the best. The triangle has not been working for any roster we put on the floor with or without melo, and I need more than a 2 week garbage time from end of the bench players to be convinced that it's going to work.

Would you be happy with 2 more 30 win seasons, and no melo?

and im not saying that to suggest keeping him is a better option.

knickscity wrote:Three years isn't even a long time for a rebuild, especially for a team with only one draft pick. fans have no patience, that's a big issue.

It isnt a rebuild until you start getting better.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knickscity wrote:Three years isn't even a long time for a rebuild, especially for a team with only one draft pick. fans have no patience, that's a big issue.

It isnt a rebuild until you start getting better.

WHAT? That's a twisted way to quantify a rebuild. When you just start to build your new core why are you focused on the W/L record? Sure in time you want to have a winning record but the Knicks are adding going to add more rookies this summer. The focus is on the development of these 20 yr olds!!!

One of the highest roster turnovers in the league since Phil got here, mostly because of the system, not the lack of draft picks. Nothing has been built.

Draft picks or not, we should be seeing progress on the court by now. If the Knicks werent married to this one system, Im pretty sure the record would reflect it. Its hard enough building a team to be competitive against the Cavs and GS, let alone the Celtics and the Wiz. Just want to see more flexibility from mgmt. If something isnt working, try something else. This system hasnt worked well enough in NY to engender such loyalty to it, by anyone.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knickscity wrote:Three years isn't even a long time for a rebuild, especially for a team with only one draft pick. fans have no patience, that's a big issue.

It isnt a rebuild until you start getting better.

WHAT? That's a twisted way to quantify a rebuild. When you just start to build your new core why are you focused on the W/L record? Sure in time you want to have a winning record but the Knicks are adding going to add more rookies this summer. The focus is on the development of these 20 yr olds!!!

One of the highest roster turnovers in the league since Phil got here, mostly because of the system, not the lack of draft picks. Nothing has been built.

Draft picks or not, we should be seeing progress on the court by now. If the Knicks werent married to this one system, Im pretty sure the record would reflect it. Its hard enough building a team to be competitive against the Cavs and GS, let alone the Celtics and the Wiz. Just want to see more flexibility from mgmt. If something isnt working, try something else. This system hasnt worked well enough in NY to engender such loyalty to it, by anyone.

This team is being built around kids in their EARLY 20's. That's simply the reality of the situation. This isn't really about the Cavs and Warriors. This is about a team that is being built to play into the future.

Now it's about KP and the young players we'll be building with. The system is now decided and there will be no more waffling to try and cater to Lazy Ass Vets. The kids adapted well to the offense so it's clear that is the direction we need to go. There's NOTHING wrong with the system. Uptempo, Early Offense, Spread PnR with some Triangle is something TALENTED, High IQ players should be able to play well in.

The team needs an upgrade in talent. 2 Way players with Frontline Talent is what this team needs. They can work on improving the defense and team chemistry but this isn't a quick fix situation so it's going to require patience. There's no rush.

I felt that the team was on the right track until Rose and Noah were brought in, and Rolo was shipped out. That was not long term thinking, and you didn't have to be Jerry West to predict how that was going to turn out. It isnt my patience thats an issue, its Phil's. Two broken down vets, regardless of their skill sets cant be associated with long term thinking.

After three years, my impatience as a fan stems from a lack of a coherent plan. Thats why KP and mgmt are at odds, as I predicted well in advance. If Phil can avoid trying to hit home run trades, give the coach more flexibility as far as the offense, I believe the future could be bright for the Knicks. Right now I see dogmatic thinking hamstringing this franchise.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knickscity wrote:Three years isn't even a long time for a rebuild, especially for a team with only one draft pick. fans have no patience, that's a big issue.

It isnt a rebuild until you start getting better.

WHAT? That's a twisted way to quantify a rebuild. When you just start to build your new core why are you focused on the W/L record? Sure in time you want to have a winning record but the Knicks are adding going to add more rookies this summer. The focus is on the development of these 20 yr olds!!!

One of the highest roster turnovers in the league since Phil got here, mostly because of the system, not the lack of draft picks. Nothing has been built.

Draft picks or not, we should be seeing progress on the court by now. If the Knicks werent married to this one system, Im pretty sure the record would reflect it. Its hard enough building a team to be competitive against the Cavs and GS, let alone the Celtics and the Wiz. Just want to see more flexibility from mgmt. If something isnt working, try something else. This system hasnt worked well enough in NY to engender such loyalty to it, by anyone.

This team is being built around kids in their EARLY 20's. That's simply the reality of the situation. This isn't really about the Cavs and Warriors. This is about a team that is being built to play into the future.

Now it's about KP and the young players we'll be building with. The system is now decided and there will be no more waffling to try and cater to Lazy Ass Vets. The kids adapted well to the offense so it's clear that is the direction we need to go. There's NOTHING wrong with the system. Uptempo, Early Offense, Spread PnR with some Triangle is something TALENTED, High IQ players should be able to play well in.

The team needs an upgrade in talent. 2 Way players with Frontline Talent is what this team needs. They can work on improving the defense and team chemistry but this isn't a quick fix situation so it's going to require patience. There's no rush.

I felt that the team was on the right track until Rose and Noah were brought in, and Rolo was shipped out. That was not long term thinking, and you didn't have to be Jerry West to predict how that was going to turn out. It isnt my patience thats an issue, its Phil's. Two broken down vets, regardless of their skill sets cant be associated with long term thinking.

After three years, my impatience as a fan stems from a lack of a coherent plan. Thats why KP and mgmt are at odds, as I predicted well in advance. If Phil can avoid trying to hit home run trades, give the coach more flexibility as far as the offense, I believe the future could be bright for the Knicks. Right now I see dogmatic thinking hamstringing this franchise.

Can we please stop rehashing the fact that he brought in Noah and Rose etc? We all know why Phil did that. He also didn't lock the Knicks into that direction. So now this is where we're at. We have something to build upon. Who the F cares about the failed Melo-centric rosters now? This is quite clearly the BEST situation we've had in terms of being able to build a roster thru the draft. THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS NOW!

Sorry Nixola, but if you're going to talk about Phil's long term plans, you cant blame me for bringing up his short term thinking. We don't know what Phil is going to do in the future. We only have the moves he's made in the past to go on. It hasn't been pretty.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knickscity wrote:Three years isn't even a long time for a rebuild, especially for a team with only one draft pick. fans have no patience, that's a big issue.

It isnt a rebuild until you start getting better.

WHAT? That's a twisted way to quantify a rebuild. When you just start to build your new core why are you focused on the W/L record? Sure in time you want to have a winning record but the Knicks are adding going to add more rookies this summer. The focus is on the development of these 20 yr olds!!!

One of the highest roster turnovers in the league since Phil got here, mostly because of the system, not the lack of draft picks. Nothing has been built.

Draft picks or not, we should be seeing progress on the court by now. If the Knicks werent married to this one system, Im pretty sure the record would reflect it. Its hard enough building a team to be competitive against the Cavs and GS, let alone the Celtics and the Wiz. Just want to see more flexibility from mgmt. If something isnt working, try something else. This system hasnt worked well enough in NY to engender such loyalty to it, by anyone.

This team is being built around kids in their EARLY 20's. That's simply the reality of the situation. This isn't really about the Cavs and Warriors. This is about a team that is being built to play into the future.

Now it's about KP and the young players we'll be building with. The system is now decided and there will be no more waffling to try and cater to Lazy Ass Vets. The kids adapted well to the offense so it's clear that is the direction we need to go. There's NOTHING wrong with the system. Uptempo, Early Offense, Spread PnR with some Triangle is something TALENTED, High IQ players should be able to play well in.

The team needs an upgrade in talent. 2 Way players with Frontline Talent is what this team needs. They can work on improving the defense and team chemistry but this isn't a quick fix situation so it's going to require patience. There's no rush.

I felt that the team was on the right track until Rose and Noah were brought in, and Rolo was shipped out. That was not long term thinking, and you didn't have to be Jerry West to predict how that was going to turn out. It isnt my patience thats an issue, its Phil's. Two broken down vets, regardless of their skill sets cant be associated with long term thinking.

After three years, my impatience as a fan stems from a lack of a coherent plan. Thats why KP and mgmt are at odds, as I predicted well in advance. If Phil can avoid trying to hit home run trades, give the coach more flexibility as far as the offense, I believe the future could be bright for the Knicks. Right now I see dogmatic thinking hamstringing this franchise.

Can we please stop rehashing the fact that he brought in Noah and Rose etc? We all know why Phil did that. He also didn't lock the Knicks into that direction. So now this is where we're at. We have something to build upon. Who the F cares about the failed Melo-centric rosters now? This is quite clearly the BEST situation we've had in terms of being able to build a roster thru the draft. THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS NOW!

Sorry Nixola, but if you're going to talk about Phil's long term plans, you cant blame me for bringing up his short term thinking. We don't know what Phil is going to do in the future. We only have the moves he's made in the past to go on. It hasn't been pretty.

True the short term Melo-centric moves all flopped but that's not all Phil's been doing. It's just the most obvious part of what he's done. He's going to be able to build on some of the good things he's done and that's more important than focusing on the other stuff.

There has to be a foundation on which to build. This team has tried to patch a team together and for the first time in a long time we can have a team built in a logical manner. It's already underway. Phil isn't going to be starting from scratch because he's actually been adding youth under the radar.

Youth without talent is still a waste and talent without development is also a waste. Why you think KP is throwing out messages via Janis about wanting a stable environment so he can grow and develop?
He had time to make logical moves and build but he didn't. He failed to evaluate talent and lacked the ability to build a quality team. You give him a pass but others are skeptical about his ability to assess the players he has and pick out players that can work with them to find some cohesion. The guy is already talking about making the playoffs next year.

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knickscity wrote:Three years isn't even a long time for a rebuild, especially for a team with only one draft pick. fans have no patience, that's a big issue.

It isnt a rebuild until you start getting better.

WHAT? That's a twisted way to quantify a rebuild. When you just start to build your new core why are you focused on the W/L record? Sure in time you want to have a winning record but the Knicks are adding going to add more rookies this summer. The focus is on the development of these 20 yr olds!!!

One of the highest roster turnovers in the league since Phil got here, mostly because of the system, not the lack of draft picks. Nothing has been built.

Draft picks or not, we should be seeing progress on the court by now. If the Knicks werent married to this one system, Im pretty sure the record would reflect it. Its hard enough building a team to be competitive against the Cavs and GS, let alone the Celtics and the Wiz. Just want to see more flexibility from mgmt. If something isnt working, try something else. This system hasnt worked well enough in NY to engender such loyalty to it, by anyone.

This team is being built around kids in their EARLY 20's. That's simply the reality of the situation. This isn't really about the Cavs and Warriors. This is about a team that is being built to play into the future.

Now it's about KP and the young players we'll be building with. The system is now decided and there will be no more waffling to try and cater to Lazy Ass Vets. The kids adapted well to the offense so it's clear that is the direction we need to go. There's NOTHING wrong with the system. Uptempo, Early Offense, Spread PnR with some Triangle is something TALENTED, High IQ players should be able to play well in.

The team needs an upgrade in talent. 2 Way players with Frontline Talent is what this team needs. They can work on improving the defense and team chemistry but this isn't a quick fix situation so it's going to require patience. There's no rush.

I felt that the team was on the right track until Rose and Noah were brought in, and Rolo was shipped out. That was not long term thinking, and you didn't have to be Jerry West to predict how that was going to turn out. It isnt my patience thats an issue, its Phil's. Two broken down vets, regardless of their skill sets cant be associated with long term thinking.

After three years, my impatience as a fan stems from a lack of a coherent plan. Thats why KP and mgmt are at odds, as I predicted well in advance. If Phil can avoid trying to hit home run trades, give the coach more flexibility as far as the offense, I believe the future could be bright for the Knicks. Right now I see dogmatic thinking hamstringing this franchise.

I felt that too but then I realize the roster turnover was more he results of trying to build around Melo. Once the Noah and Rose experiment failed there was no choice but to go full rebuild.

This is the beginning of the full rebuild process. For it to be realized as a full rebuild Melo has to be shipped out.

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knickscity wrote:Three years isn't even a long time for a rebuild, especially for a team with only one draft pick. fans have no patience, that's a big issue.

It isnt a rebuild until you start getting better.

WHAT? That's a twisted way to quantify a rebuild. When you just start to build your new core why are you focused on the W/L record? Sure in time you want to have a winning record but the Knicks are adding going to add more rookies this summer. The focus is on the development of these 20 yr olds!!!

One of the highest roster turnovers in the league since Phil got here, mostly because of the system, not the lack of draft picks. Nothing has been built.

Draft picks or not, we should be seeing progress on the court by now. If the Knicks werent married to this one system, Im pretty sure the record would reflect it. Its hard enough building a team to be competitive against the Cavs and GS, let alone the Celtics and the Wiz. Just want to see more flexibility from mgmt. If something isnt working, try something else. This system hasnt worked well enough in NY to engender such loyalty to it, by anyone.

This team is being built around kids in their EARLY 20's. That's simply the reality of the situation. This isn't really about the Cavs and Warriors. This is about a team that is being built to play into the future.

Now it's about KP and the young players we'll be building with. The system is now decided and there will be no more waffling to try and cater to Lazy Ass Vets. The kids adapted well to the offense so it's clear that is the direction we need to go. There's NOTHING wrong with the system. Uptempo, Early Offense, Spread PnR with some Triangle is something TALENTED, High IQ players should be able to play well in.

The team needs an upgrade in talent. 2 Way players with Frontline Talent is what this team needs. They can work on improving the defense and team chemistry but this isn't a quick fix situation so it's going to require patience. There's no rush.

I felt that the team was on the right track until Rose and Noah were brought in, and Rolo was shipped out. That was not long term thinking, and you didn't have to be Jerry West to predict how that was going to turn out. It isnt my patience thats an issue, its Phil's. Two broken down vets, regardless of their skill sets cant be associated with long term thinking.

After three years, my impatience as a fan stems from a lack of a coherent plan. Thats why KP and mgmt are at odds, as I predicted well in advance. If Phil can avoid trying to hit home run trades, give the coach more flexibility as far as the offense, I believe the future could be bright for the Knicks. Right now I see dogmatic thinking hamstringing this franchise.

I felt that too but then I realize the roster turnover was more he results of trying to build around Melo. Once the Noah and Rose experiment failed there was no choice but to go full rebuild.

This is the beginning of the full rebuild process. For it to be realized as a full rebuild Melo has to be shipped out.

I don't get the roster building around Melo statement. The Knicks had 5 undrafted rookies on the roster and 6 rookies overall Phil majorly messed up when he signed Noah and I think that signing had a lot more to do with Phil feeling simpatico with Noah then Phil getting Noah for Melo. That leaves the Rose trade and the Lee signing. I wouldn't call that building around Melo and it also didn't help with the development of Porzingis. Also, there is already a template in place for how to build around Melo. Phil certainly didn't follow it.

Phil was putting some players around Melo but not going ALL IN on it because that would've been a tragic mistake. Phil said from day one that he would protect the team's future and despite the Noah signing Phil has kept the rebuilding on track at the same time. This was his stated approach. Go back and read things Phil has been saying and he's pretty much done what he said.

The Melo-centric looked good early but crashed and burned. So now Phil gets to draft some more young talent and look to build a New Core. This is a good opportunity to try and do that. Let's hope we get some good luck.