meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:That has always been speculated but when the new gm hires his college roommate to be the associate head coach in charge of defense, amnesties your point guard, signs a marquee traditional center and gives you Toney Douglas to run your system for the last year of the deal the writing is on the wall.

Imcredible addition to a thread on Melo.

Yeah sometimes the details around the situation are important. But who needs details if it doesn't fit with what you hope happened.

LOL - your denial is about as pathetic as your weak attemlts at deflection.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Paris907 wrote:http://www.slamonline.com/nba/carmelo-anthony-ultimatum-knicks-mike-dantoni/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral#YjwFOJ1uZApq0RgQ.97

What else is new. Ultimatum by Melo - these are the tricks he's teaching KP.

Similar conversation on other thread. But okay...Whats wrong with the lesson? If your coach goes 121 and 167 and then gives a D league caliber PG the reins, he has clearly lost all credibility and needs to go. KP should be taught not to accept losing. So when is a good time for players to force a change?

Hard to argue that Melo was wrong as he won 54 games the following year and had his best year as a Knick. Why exactly did we need to stick with Dantoni? He had a terrible record. Negative player sentiment. And no defensive structure. Think most that argue in favor of MDA and Lin seem to have trouble giving valid reasons. Except for their blind belief that they would have magically taken us to the finals.

Glad he is past his failure here. And cant trash him for winning the inaugural NBCA award, which takes community service into account. But as for coaching merit alone, keep in mind that Houston has this years MVP, great 3pt shooters and a bench that makes our 54 win team look like a bunch of back ups. And lets not forget he did not exactly kill it, after being forced out, until he was handed his current roster. But hope they dont give Coach of the year to Lue or Kerr. Think they give it to Stevens or Snyder.

Houstan has this years MVP? Yes, with MDA, coach of the year. Harden was an all-star. Nash was an all star, then comes MDA and he a two time MVP enroute to HOF. Harden hell of a player, but they don't win 54 games prior.
Give the man his due.

Paris907 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:We are still talking about this s***. Melo wasnt the first or last player that wanted his coach removed. Magic got westhead fired....The problem with MDA is he can only run his system. He couldnt adapt to his roster and that was his downfall. When Riley joined the Knicks, he didnt force Ewing and Oak to play in the showtime system. He built a system that fit the roster he had...

Not every coach is the same! Many of the MOST SUCCESSFUL coaches in sports have been System coaches. There's nothing inherently wrong with it if you know who you've hired and what he's about. Knicks failed to support MDA knowing he's a system coach.

System coaches are fine if you have the right pieces...If you have a roster and or your best player that doesn't fit your system, you adjust accordingly.

I love Don Nelson and his innovated rosters and line ups. He was ahead of his time; one of the first coaches to play position-less basketball, particularly with that 1987 and 88 Bucks team which is what most teams are doing in today's games. However, I didn't believe he had the right roster to play the system he wanted with Ewing, Oak etc. He should have adjusted to the roster...With that said, lets not pretend Ewing didn't have a hand in firing Nelson.

Ewing wanted Nelson gone because Nelson wanted the offense to run through Mason

Thats when we fired coaches for being just 7 games above .500, now w'ere pulling for coaches who who win 30 games..The Bar has sunk to embarrassing levels

arkrud wrote:Melo and MDA are both victims of the dysfunctional organization led by inept mindless owner and Gulag-like bureaucracy.
But both of them choose money over winning and greatness. Both of them shoot themselves in the foot and wasted years of their life for nothing but $$$.
MDA moved on and he has long way to go but Melo stuck and his time with bbal is coming to the end.
Knicks fans get nothing but frustration and broken promises.
Still many are fixated on looking for scapegoat in Melo, MDA, or whatever even if it is painfully clear whom to blame.
And the real reason of all this past, current, and future sucking is not going anywhere.

knicks1248 wrote:

Paris907 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:We are still talking about this s***. Melo wasnt the first or last player that wanted his coach removed. Magic got westhead fired....The problem with MDA is he can only run his system. He couldnt adapt to his roster and that was his downfall. When Riley joined the Knicks, he didnt force Ewing and Oak to play in the showtime system. He built a system that fit the roster he had...

Not every coach is the same! Many of the MOST SUCCESSFUL coaches in sports have been System coaches. There's nothing inherently wrong with it if you know who you've hired and what he's about. Knicks failed to support MDA knowing he's a system coach.

System coaches are fine if you have the right pieces...If you have a roster and or your best player that doesn't fit your system, you adjust accordingly.

I love Don Nelson and his innovated rosters and line ups. He was ahead of his time; one of the first coaches to play position-less basketball, particularly with that 1987 and 88 Bucks team which is what most teams are doing in today's games. However, I didn't believe he had the right roster to play the system he wanted with Ewing, Oak etc. He should have adjusted to the roster...With that said, lets not pretend Ewing didn't have a hand in firing Nelson.

Ewing wanted Nelson gone because Nelson wanted the offense to run through Mason

Thats when we fired coaches for being just 7 games above .500, now w'ere pulling for coaches who who win 30 games..The Bar has sunk to embarrassing levels

Your right.
I do recall Ewing going into that season and as a fan hated his potential free agency and losing him. What I thought was a starphuch hiring of Nelson was in fact a move from slow ball and changing ahead of the curve. Not sure if Nelson would have lead us to the promise land or Spree ends up in NY, but at some point we made the transition from Ewing/Oak as clumsy as possible. Keeping Ewing was about keeping the cash flow going.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:It's not just MDA. It's Karl, Hornacek, Jackson, Rambis.

Melo was only happy under Woodson.

He is not a team guy. He is a ME guy.

MDA TeamSnap played no D but the offense struggled until they discovered LIn.

Then Melo sulked.

I dis-agree with anybody that says Melo is not a team guy. The problem is Melo's game doesn't compliment the team or players around him, if he's the main scorer. As he's getting older, the issue gets worse, because he's becoming more of a shooter than attacker (aka Iverson).

So I believe in his heart, it's all about the team. The problem is he only knows how to impact the game one way.....And thats how he gets paid. If he plays any other way, he's in the average to slightly above average group of nba players. And average nba players don't cost max dollars.

MDA's system works with attacking guards, which is why Linsanity was born. Melo is not a full court attacking guard, so it didn't work with Melo running the point. And it didn't work with Melo as the second option to a player like Lin that wasn't drafted and nobody knew. That hurts Melo's value.

Basically Melo missed the super friends bandwagon opportunity in Miami. And he only has a few more opportunities to do the super friends strategy in LA or Cleveland. Thats when Melo will shine....Playing Love's roll or Chris Bosh roll, as the 3rd option on a loaded team.

Its time to have one vision.

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:We are still talking about this s***. Melo wasnt the first or last player that wanted his coach removed. Magic got westhead fired....The problem with MDA is he can only run his system. He couldnt adapt to his roster and that was his downfall. When Riley joined the Knicks, he didnt force Ewing and Oak to play in the showtime system. He built a system that fit the roster he had...

Not every coach is the same! Many of the MOST SUCCESSFUL coaches in sports have been System coaches. There's nothing inherently wrong with it if you know who you've hired and what he's about. Knicks failed to support MDA knowing he's a system coach.

D'Antoni's offense needed Melo to play off the ball more and to run fast spot up.
Same with Hornachek's initial offense.
Triangle requires lots of off the ball work and movemement.

Melo is interested in an offense that caters to his isolation skills and a coach that allows him to focus there while the coach focuses on D. The worst thing is Rose is the same way in a different manner. Rose wants Thibs. He wants a coach that focuses on D and runs the ball through Rose in pick and rolls or isolations up high so Rose can drive to the basket.

It's pretty crap how neither Rose or Melo adjusted but it is what it is. We got a top 7 pick in the process and avoided paying Rose big money this summer.

As far the whole "teaching KP tricks" stuff, nah. BS. Can't put that on Melo. Melo's a good guy, he's just not a good fit for the team or to play on a rebuilding team. If KP is an immature brat or acting like one, that's on KP. I know losing piles on KP and he hates to lose, but he went about it all wrong and that's all on KP, not on Melo at all.

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Paris907 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:We are still talking about this s***. Melo wasnt the first or last player that wanted his coach removed. Magic got westhead fired....The problem with MDA is he can only run his system. He couldnt adapt to his roster and that was his downfall. When Riley joined the Knicks, he didnt force Ewing and Oak to play in the showtime system. He built a system that fit the roster he had...

Not every coach is the same! Many of the MOST SUCCESSFUL coaches in sports have been System coaches. There's nothing inherently wrong with it if you know who you've hired and what he's about. Knicks failed to support MDA knowing he's a system coach.

System coaches are fine if you have the right pieces...If you have a roster and or your best player that doesn't fit your system, you adjust accordingly.

I love Don Nelson and his innovated rosters and line ups. He was ahead of his time; one of the first coaches to play position-less basketball, particularly with that 1987 and 88 Bucks team which is what most teams are doing in today's games. However, I didn't believe he had the right roster to play the system he wanted with Ewing, Oak etc. He should have adjusted to the roster...With that said, lets not pretend Ewing didn't have a hand in firing Nelson.

Ewing wanted Nelson gone because Nelson wanted the offense to run through Mason

Thats when we fired coaches for being just 7 games above .500, now w'ere pulling for coaches who who win 30 games..The Bar has sunk to embarrassing levels

know your history. Nelson lobbied for the Knicks to trade Ewing for Shaq. Shaq was leaving as a FA and Orlando would have accepted the trade as it was their only chance to get value. Ewing heard about it and pretty much quit on Nelson resulting in his termination.

Can we trade Melo for Shaq?

Honestly, I typically pride myself for basketball history, but didn't know (or forgot) the above.

Paris907 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:We are still talking about this s***. Melo wasnt the first or last player that wanted his coach removed. Magic got westhead fired....The problem with MDA is he can only run his system. He couldnt adapt to his roster and that was his downfall. When Riley joined the Knicks, he didnt force Ewing and Oak to play in the showtime system. He built a system that fit the roster he had...

Not every coach is the same! Many of the MOST SUCCESSFUL coaches in sports have been System coaches. There's nothing inherently wrong with it if you know who you've hired and what he's about. Knicks failed to support MDA knowing he's a system coach.

System coaches are fine if you have the right pieces...If you have a roster and or your best player that doesn't fit your system, you adjust accordingly.

I love Don Nelson and his innovated rosters and line ups. He was ahead of his time; one of the first coaches to play position-less basketball, particularly with that 1987 and 88 Bucks team which is what most teams are doing in today's games. However, I didn't believe he had the right roster to play the system he wanted with Ewing, Oak etc. He should have adjusted to the roster...With that said, lets not pretend Ewing didn't have a hand in firing Nelson.

Ewing wanted Nelson gone because Nelson wanted the offense to run through Mason

Melo gets people traded, canned and does nothing. IMO, this year, Phil tried to accomodate him with geting Rose and Noah and they stunk.....He does not lead. He cannot carry a team.

Nalod wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Paris907 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:We are still talking about this s***. Melo wasnt the first or last player that wanted his coach removed. Magic got westhead fired....The problem with MDA is he can only run his system. He couldnt adapt to his roster and that was his downfall. When Riley joined the Knicks, he didnt force Ewing and Oak to play in the showtime system. He built a system that fit the roster he had...

Not every coach is the same! Many of the MOST SUCCESSFUL coaches in sports have been System coaches. There's nothing inherently wrong with it if you know who you've hired and what he's about. Knicks failed to support MDA knowing he's a system coach.

System coaches are fine if you have the right pieces...If you have a roster and or your best player that doesn't fit your system, you adjust accordingly.

I love Don Nelson and his innovated rosters and line ups. He was ahead of his time; one of the first coaches to play position-less basketball, particularly with that 1987 and 88 Bucks team which is what most teams are doing in today's games. However, I didn't believe he had the right roster to play the system he wanted with Ewing, Oak etc. He should have adjusted to the roster...With that said, lets not pretend Ewing didn't have a hand in firing Nelson.

Ewing wanted Nelson gone because Nelson wanted the offense to run through Mason

Thats when we fired coaches for being just 7 games above .500, now w'ere pulling for coaches who who win 30 games..The Bar has sunk to embarrassing levels

know your history. Nelson lobbied for the Knicks to trade Ewing for Shaq. Shaq was leaving as a FA and Orlando would have accepted the trade as it was their only chance to get value. Ewing heard about it and pretty much quit on Nelson resulting in his termination.

Can we trade Melo for Shaq?

Honestly, I typically pride myself for basketball history, but didn't know (or forgot) the above.

whats amazing is Nellie was spot on. Imagine how the course of the Knicks change if we had Shaq? I love Ewing and always will but man...

while many things could have been different, Shaq and Camby with Mase. Would have to think the Trade for LJ would not have been done. Not sure about Spree either.
I thought I recall Shaq saying he would not have been down to play in NYC. He was set on going to LA.