EnySpree wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/

The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.

The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/

Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride mother****er

OK but we're not 4 years into Phil's rebuilding. We're 1 year into his fourth rebuild.

But that's not funny nor does it make any sense. Just more negativity. The truth is Phil is on the sane path. He gutted and tanked for KP... then in 2 years with kp he tried to get Melo help while still getting younger. Phil had been combing Europe and finding serviceable players to play for us. That's all one plan, one rebuild. Not everything is going to work but the method has been the same. Expect more of it... ask the good things we habe going on will only improve going forward as long as we stay consistent

More of the same? That means almost all our cap space will be used on guys like Rose, Melo, and Noah? The idea that that was part of a rebuilding plan doesn't pass the laugh test - at least not if it's a sensible rebuilding plan.

But Melo is a star player that wanted to be here. He took a chance on him to buy in. Melo didn't buy in... that didn't change what Phil iss doing. He's still finding young players and obscure talent.

Noah is a guy he wanted here mostly for his hard work and leadership. I could live with that. Noah is worth more than just his play on the court.

Rose is an expiring contract. It's not like he is on a 4 year deal. He was worth the look but he's gone now. Nothing to talk about.

Outside of those three you mentioned, we have been sensibly rebuilding. You choose to dwell on the negative. I feel sorry that you suffer. Stop suffering. Get help. See someone

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/

The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.

The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/

Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride mother****er

What bad draft picks have the Jazz made? Even their worst pick might be merely average.

So that's all you want to talk about? Just looking for something to argue about? Yes the Jazz have drafted players that didn't work out. It's typical that a passing comment would get a response.

Yeah because I disagree with the essence of your post. We're not nearly as competent as the Jazz have demonstrated to be. They've had a seasoned front office that has had a winning culture for more than two decades. We're a franchise that has changed our front office every 3-4 years, with the most recent iteration headed by a complete neophyte that has consistently made an ass out of himself, save for the Porzingis pick....which was probably made by an infrastructure that preceded him (we've been good at drafting international players since Gallo in 2008). There is no comparison between them and us.

Again you want to argue. I'm taking about their recent history. 5 years without being in the playoffs is not good. Don't talk to me about seasoning. We're not frying chicken. The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. The past is the past. Phil had only been here 3 years were on a rebuilding path. The comparison is valid.

It's insane how much fans want to fight for the right to be misersble.

The jazz missed the playoffs 5 straight seasons. They rebuilt their club and got back. The Knicks have been out the playoffs for 4 straight seasons... 3 under the current administration. They are on right path. Our worst problems well all be taken care of this summer. Noah getting healthy, Rose becoming a free agent and Melo being traded. We have a ton of young players and more to come... but this isn't similiar to the Jazz? The knicks are destined to be bad but the Jazz have this rich history? Yeah ok.

All I'm getting back is negativity. How miserable and disgusting are you? You cry about the bad things so much that you can't enjoy the good. You can't see the Knicks have a chance to get back in the playoffs in the next 2 years? You want to talk about old **** that has nothing to do with Phil? How lame and pathetic are you?

EnySpree wrote:Again...

The jazz missed the playoffs 5 straight seasons. They rebuilt their club and got back. The Knicks have been out the playoffs for 4 straight seasons... 3 under the current administration. They are on right path. Our worst problems well all be taken care of this summer. Noah getting healthy, Rose becoming a free agent and Melo being traded. We have a ton of young players and more to come... but this isn't similiar to the Jazz? The knicks are destined to be bad but the Jazz have this rich history? Yeah ok.

All I'm getting back is negativity. How miserable and disgusting are you? You cry about the bad things so much that you can't enjoy the good. You can't see the Knicks have a chance to get back in the playoffs in the next 2 years? You want to talk about old **** that has nothing to do with Phil? How lame and pathetic are you?

Go check the respective teams' overall record the past two decades....then get back to us.

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Again...

The jazz missed the playoffs 5 straight seasons. They rebuilt their club and got back. The Knicks have been out the playoffs for 4 straight seasons... 3 under the current administration. They are on right path. Our worst problems well all be taken care of this summer. Noah getting healthy, Rose becoming a free agent and Melo being traded. We have a ton of young players and more to come... but this isn't similiar to the Jazz? The knicks are destined to be bad but the Jazz have this rich history? Yeah ok.

All I'm getting back is negativity. How miserable and disgusting are you? You cry about the bad things so much that you can't enjoy the good. You can't see the Knicks have a chance to get back in the playoffs in the next 2 years? You want to talk about old **** that has nothing to do with Phil? How lame and pathetic are you?

Go check the respective teams' overall record the past two decades....then get back to us.

Again you want to talk about a passing comment and dwell on negativity. Pathetic

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/

The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.

The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/

Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride mother****er

OK but we're not 4 years into Phil's rebuilding. We're 1 year into his fourth rebuild.

LMAO

Like why is that a lmao moment? Pathetic. You guys enjoy the futility. The type of people that find joy in negativity. You get energy from it. Nothing but vampires.

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Again...

The jazz missed the playoffs 5 straight seasons. They rebuilt their club and got back. The Knicks have been out the playoffs for 4 straight seasons... 3 under the current administration. They are on right path. Our worst problems well all be taken care of this summer. Noah getting healthy, Rose becoming a free agent and Melo being traded. We have a ton of young players and more to come... but this isn't similiar to the Jazz? The knicks are destined to be bad but the Jazz have this rich history? Yeah ok.

All I'm getting back is negativity. How miserable and disgusting are you? You cry about the bad things so much that you can't enjoy the good. You can't see the Knicks have a chance to get back in the playoffs in the next 2 years? You want to talk about old **** that has nothing to do with Phil? How lame and pathetic are you?

Go check the respective teams' overall record the past two decades....then get back to us.

Again you want to talk about a passing comment and dwell on negativity. Pathetic

Why are you always so emotional?

Your entire response was predicated on my side of the aisle being "negative" and unfairly crediting the Jazz. Well the Jazz have more than 20 years of evidence that shows they consistently make the right decision. We don't. And there is no evidence to suggest that Phil Jackson will buck that trend.

The Jazz have consistently made moves with an eye toward their future, even if it temporarily inconveniences their present ambitions e.g. trading Ronnie Brewer to MEM for a 1st, Deron Williams to the Nets, Tom Gugulitto for the pick that became our 2010 1st rounder (Gordon Hayward).

We, on the other hand have consistently made shortsighted moves that provide marginal utility in the present and royally screws our future e.g. trading an eventual lottery pick for Andrea Bargnani (which you were an adament supporter of). Phil has continued that culture and instead of trying to supplement our cache of draft picks/young players, made foolish moves in an attempt to win now e.g. trading Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon instead of picks or signing guys like Aaron Afflalo instead of using his cap space to take the Kings bad contracts for Nik Stauskaus, SAC 2019 1st round pick and a 2018 1st round pick swap. We got lucky with Porzingis but again, that is an abherration and not the norm in Phil's plan.

EnySpree wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/

The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.

The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/

Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride mother****er

OK but we're not 4 years into Phil's rebuilding. We're 1 year into his fourth rebuild.

But that's not funny nor does it make any sense. Just more negativity. The truth is Phil is on the sane path. He gutted and tanked for KP... then in 2 years with kp he tried to get Melo help while still getting younger. Phil had been combing Europe and finding serviceable players to play for us. That's all one plan, one rebuild. Not everything is going to work but the method has been the same. Expect more of it... ask the good things we habe going on will only improve going forward as long as we stay consistent

More of the same? That means almost all our cap space will be used on guys like Rose, Melo, and Noah? The idea that that was part of a rebuilding plan doesn't pass the laugh test - at least not if it's a sensible rebuilding plan.

But Melo is a star player that wanted to be here. He took a chance on him to buy in. Melo didn't buy in... that didn't change what Phil iss doing. He's still finding young players and obscure talent.

Noah is a guy he wanted here mostly for his hard work and leadership. I could live with that. Noah is worth more than just his play on the court.

Rose is an expiring contract. It's not like he is on a 4 year deal. He was worth the look but he's gone now. Nothing to talk about.

Outside of those three you mentioned, we have been sensibly rebuilding. You choose to dwell on the negative. I feel sorry that you suffer. Stop suffering. Get help. See someone

Oh those three were just the start. Suffer? I enjoy the critical analysis. It's much more fun than blind faith.

Critical analysis? Is that the same as alternative facts? You are basically admitting that you prefer to talk about the negativity rather than talk about forward movement. I can't respect that. Just more examples of how far fans will go just to fight for their right to be miserable

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/

The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.

The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/

Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride mother****er

What bad draft picks have the Jazz made? Even their worst pick might be merely average.

So that's all you want to talk about? Just looking for something to argue about? Yes the Jazz have drafted players that didn't work out. It's typical that a passing comment would get a response.

Yeah because I disagree with the essence of your post. We're not nearly as competent as the Jazz have demonstrated to be. They've had a seasoned front office that has had a winning culture for more than two decades. We're a franchise that has changed our front office every 3-4 years, with the most recent iteration headed by a complete neophyte that has consistently made an ass out of himself, save for the Porzingis pick....which was probably made by an infrastructure that preceded him (we've been good at drafting international players since Gallo in 2008). There is no comparison between them and us.

Again you want to argue. I'm taking about their recent history. 5 years without being in the playoffs is not good. Don't talk to me about seasoning. We're not frying chicken. The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. The past is the past. Phil had only been here 3 years were on a rebuilding path. The comparison is valid.

It's insane how much fans want to fight for the right to be misersble.

It's not a matter of fighting to be miserable. It's a matter of coming to grips with reality.

And the reality is that there has been very little during Phil's tenure here to demonstrate that he is effective in his capacity as Team President. The Porzingis selection is very much his only saving grace and is an aberration to a series of inept decisions he has made (or did not make). Porzingis aside, name me two moves he has done that have actually made this team more valuable or placed us in a better position for the future.

3 seasons... first season was sacrificed to get KP. We also got Willy the same year. In between he found Lance and KOQ. Ndour, Kuz, Holiday, Lance Thomas, Baker, Randle, Lee.... all positive players. Plenty of other guys that didn't workout but they are no longer here. Every year we get better. Every year someone else sticks. This off season we will get more of these players from a Melo trade, draft and free agency.... it's positive and it's forward building. Its going to take a while... just like it took the Jazz 5 years to get back. Phil hasn't had 5 years yet.

Please. All you smucks were hyping Jose Calderon and how that trade would get us back into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed, which we'd continue to build on. The intent was never to "sacrifice" the season; we just happened to be terrible by accident. If Phil's agenda were to truely rebuild, he would have never traded Tyson Chandler for anything short of a mid-1st round pick (which is what the Rockets got for career malcontent and backup Omer Asik that same season). If his agenda were to truely rebuild, he never would have allowed Melo to have a NTC in his contract. If his agenda were to truely rebuild, he never would have blown cap space on win-now veterans, rather than for draft picks that teams like the Kings and Cavs gave up to shed bad contracts. That's because Phil never intended to rebuild, he intended to retool with big ticket free agent signings.

And the players you think Phil has "found", have all be rethreads from other teams that have been disposed of save for Mindaugas Kuzminskaus....who is 27 years old, going on 28. Best case scenario is that they are inconsequential 2nd unit players on a winning team. More likely than not, they end up out of the league like all the other hyped bench players we were developing that were someday going to make it e.g. Jeremy Tyler, Andy Rautins, Jerome Jordan, Josh Harrellson, Toure Murry....

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/

The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.

The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/

Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride mother****er

What bad draft picks have the Jazz made? Even their worst pick might be merely average.

So that's all you want to talk about? Just looking for something to argue about? Yes the Jazz have drafted players that didn't work out. It's typical that a passing comment would get a response.

Yeah because I disagree with the essence of your post. We're not nearly as competent as the Jazz have demonstrated to be. They've had a seasoned front office that has had a winning culture for more than two decades. We're a franchise that has changed our front office every 3-4 years, with the most recent iteration headed by a complete neophyte that has consistently made an ass out of himself, save for the Porzingis pick....which was probably made by an infrastructure that preceded him (we've been good at drafting international players since Gallo in 2008). There is no comparison between them and us.

Again you want to argue. I'm taking about their recent history. 5 years without being in the playoffs is not good. Don't talk to me about seasoning. We're not frying chicken. The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. The past is the past. Phil had only been here 3 years were on a rebuilding path. The comparison is valid.

It's insane how much fans want to fight for the right to be misersble.

It's not a matter of fighting to be miserable. It's a matter of coming to grips with reality.

And the reality is that there has been very little during Phil's tenure here to demonstrate that he is effective in his capacity as Team President. The Porzingis selection is very much his only saving grace and is an aberration to a series of inept decisions he has made (or did not make). Porzingis aside, name me two moves he has done that have actually made this team more valuable or placed us in a better position for the future.

3 seasons... first season was sacrificed to get KP. We also got Willy the same year. In between he found Lance and KOQ. Ndour, Kuz, Holiday, Lance Thomas, Baker, Randle, Lee.... all positive players. Plenty of other guys that didn't workout but they are no longer here. Every year we get better. Every year someone else sticks. This off season we will get more of these players from a Melo trade, draft and free agency.... it's positive and it's forward building. Its going to take a while... just like it took the Jazz 5 years to get back. Phil hasn't had 5 years yet.

Please. All you smucks were hyping Jose Calderon and how that trade would get us back into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed, which we'd continue to build on. The intent was never to "sacrifice" the season; we just happened to be terrible by accident. If Phil's agenda were to truely rebuild, he would have never traded Tyson Chandler for anything short of a mid-1st round pick (which is what the Rockets got for career malcontent and backup Omer Asik that same season). If his agenda were to truely rebuild, he never would have allowed Melo to have a NTC in his contract. If his agenda were to truely rebuild, he never would have blown cap space on win-now veterans, rather than for draft picks that teams like the Kings and Cavs gave up to shed bad contracts. That's because Phil never intended to rebuild, he intended to retool with big ticket free agent signings.

And the players you think Phil has "found", have all be rethreads from other teams that have been disposed of save for Mindaugas Kuzminskaus....who is 27 years old, going on 28. Best case scenario is that they are inconsequential 2nd unit players on a winning team. More likely than not, they end up out of the league like all the other hyped bench players we were developing that were someday going to make it e.g. Jeremy Tyler, Andy Rautins, Jerome Jordan, Josh Harrellson, Toure Murry....

All that happened right? But the Knicks sit here today with KP, Willy... a future #7 pick in 2017 sand a future pick in 2018. We have cap flexibility. We have a couple experienced vets.... it may not be a perfect thing but here we are in good shape after 3 seasons.... but we're doomed and can't improve? Yeah ok.... keep fighting to be miserable

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Again...

The jazz missed the playoffs 5 straight seasons. They rebuilt their club and got back. The Knicks have been out the playoffs for 4 straight seasons... 3 under the current administration. They are on right path. Our worst problems well all be taken care of this summer. Noah getting healthy, Rose becoming a free agent and Melo being traded. We have a ton of young players and more to come... but this isn't similiar to the Jazz? The knicks are destined to be bad but the Jazz have this rich history? Yeah ok.

All I'm getting back is negativity. How miserable and disgusting are you? You cry about the bad things so much that you can't enjoy the good. You can't see the Knicks have a chance to get back in the playoffs in the next 2 years? You want to talk about old **** that has nothing to do with Phil? How lame and pathetic are you?

Go check the respective teams' overall record the past two decades....then get back to us.

Again you want to talk about a passing comment and dwell on negativity. Pathetic

Why are you always so emotional?

Your entire response was predicated on my side of the aisle being "negative" and unfairly crediting the Jazz. Well the Jazz have more than 20 years of evidence that shows they consistently make the right decision. We don't. And there is no evidence to suggest that Phil Jackson will buck that trend.

The Jazz have consistently made moves with an eye toward their future, even if it temporarily inconveniences their present ambitions e.g. trading Ronnie Brewer to MEM for a 1st, Deron Williams to the Nets, Tom Gugulitto for the pick that became our 2010 1st rounder (Gordon Hayward).

We, on the other hand have consistently made shortsighted moves that provide marginal utility in the present and royally screws our future e.g. trading an eventual lottery pick for Andrea Bargnani (which you were an adament supporter of). Phil has continued that culture and instead of trying to supplement our cache of draft picks/young players, made foolish moves in an attempt to win now e.g. trading Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon instead of picks or signing guys like Aaron Afflalo instead of using his cap space to take the Kings bad contracts for Nik Stauskaus, SAC 2019 1st round pick and a 2018 1st round pick swap. We got lucky with Porzingis but again, that is an abherration and not the norm in Phil's plan.

Everything you are saying is stupid because the last 5 years the Jazz weren't in the playoffs. Spit out the Jazz printed underwear. The current Knicks are rebuilding just like the Jazz did. Your holy jazz tean sucked for 5 years as they rebuilt. The Knicks are in that same path... 3 years under Phil. Who is to say they can't finish this off and get back into the playoffs in 2 more years? Why are the Knicks destined to be bad forever? Why cuz a pathetic vampire fan says so?

Everything the Jazz did was build towards a moment when they could make the playoffs and make noise, over the past 5 years. During that span, we've tried to utilize as many assets/resources as possible EACH SEASON just to be a 7th or 8th seed. Therein lies the difference.

that's the biggest crock of **** I ever heard. If you weren't so pathetically negative you could say the same things about the Knicks you say about the Jazz. The jazz rebuild wasn't some elegant gallop across the meadow in a white stallion. You guys make me sick. So damn ignorant...

Check out their draft history the last 5 years. Just a bunch of bums. Hardly anyone sticking the last 5 years. Just Rodney Hood. They traded for Gobert on draft night in 2013 for a second round pick. That's luck... same way we traded for Willy. In 4 years how good is Willy going to be?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/draft.html

The Jazz didn't have a beautiful text book rebuild. They were trying to get in the playoffs too.... but no lets throw dirt only on the Knicks. Again.... just more pathetic garbage from miserable stans