EnySpree wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:Fox, Frank, Smith and Monk could all be in play! Grant isn't in the same class as any of them. Grant was fools gold. I thought he'd be better than this as did a lot of scouts. Sometimes that just happens. All of the guards at the top of this draft are worthy of their ranking. The Knicks wouldn't be reaching by choosing one of them IMO. There's no guarantees in the draft but these are some good players.

Grant had the skills to be a good PG, but hesitation seems to be baked into his game. Thought Jerian might outgrow it as he became more acclimated, but that didnt really happen.

Grant had the full package. Nba pedigree... 5 year college player.... plus he came off a monster tournament. He almost beat Duke by himself... he was a sure thing, but he's proof that nobody is a sure thing.

That's why I don't bank on draft picks, especially when comes to the knicks. we haven't struck gold since EWING, many generations ago. KP and willy are ok, BUT EWING, he carried the knicks from day 1, playoffs yr after yr.

These college kids now coming into the league and breaking down almost instantly, or can't shoot. There really hasn't been any major standouts in a min

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Pavvy wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm high on Fox. I don't think his shooting is going to be a problem. Just watching him his shot just needs work with a Pro Shooting coach to his mechanics refined. I like everything else about Fox.

Frank has the physical profile. Those freakishly long arms make him a real interesting defensive prospect. I worry about his handles and quickness. Really hard to judge him in relation to NBA speed. We'll have to wait for reports from workouts.

Smith I have less concerns about him being able to play at the next level. With him it's his mental game that concerns me. Is he capable of being a legit floor general and running a team?

yeah I see both Fox and Smith developing a bit quicker than Frank and they're more of the scoring 2 guards that are out there in the NBA..

European/foreign PGs take longer to develop......Frank reminds me of Schroeder a bit

If anything Fox reminds me more of Shroeder with more height. Hes super quick just like Schroeder but also has some traits of John Wall. Frank N kind of looks like Jamal Crawford with less polish

What footage are you watching of Frank N to come to that conclusion? Their games are nothing alike. They are black and skinny though... so there's that.

Every video he has. He has a high loose dribble and has trouble separating from his defender. He does make plays with length but that wont cut it in the NBA.

watch more. Your not scouting very well if thats what you come up with.

Its not even close--Fox is WAY better--not comparable. If Fox showed he could shoot--wed be talking about him as a possible #1 pick. At MINIMUM Fox will be able to rely on his physical ability. Not so with Frank.

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:Fox, Frank, Smith and Monk could all be in play! Grant isn't in the same class as any of them. Grant was fools gold. I thought he'd be better than this as did a lot of scouts. Sometimes that just happens. All of the guards at the top of this draft are worthy of their ranking. The Knicks wouldn't be reaching by choosing one of them IMO. There's no guarantees in the draft but these are some good players.

Grant had the skills to be a good PG, but hesitation seems to be baked into his game. Thought Jerian might outgrow it as he became more acclimated, but that didnt really happen.

Grant had the full package. Nba pedigree... 5 year college player.... plus he came off a monster tournament. He almost beat Duke by himself... he was a sure thing, but he's proof that nobody is a sure thing.

That's why I don't bank on draft picks, especially when comes to the knicks. we haven't struck gold since EWING, many generations ago. KP and willy are ok, BUT EWING, he carried the knicks from day 1, playoffs yr after yr.

These college kids now coming into the league and breaking down almost instantly, or can't shoot. There really hasn't been any major standouts in a min

Ewing's knees forced him to change his game not long after he got into the league. Became more of a shooter, developed that runner near the top of the key.

Considering how mobile KP is for his height, all those times he hit the deck after taking a nasty fall, Im surprised he wasn't hurt more. Still needs to get in much better shape though, which Porzingis has acknowledged. Hope he walks it like he talks it over the summer.

KP is going to have to play 5 for the long term. Hes not going to be able to use his 7-3 frame chasing mobile 4's around.

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Pavvy wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm high on Fox. I don't think his shooting is going to be a problem. Just watching him his shot just needs work with a Pro Shooting coach to his mechanics refined. I like everything else about Fox.

Frank has the physical profile. Those freakishly long arms make him a real interesting defensive prospect. I worry about his handles and quickness. Really hard to judge him in relation to NBA speed. We'll have to wait for reports from workouts.

Smith I have less concerns about him being able to play at the next level. With him it's his mental game that concerns me. Is he capable of being a legit floor general and running a team?

yeah I see both Fox and Smith developing a bit quicker than Frank and they're more of the scoring 2 guards that are out there in the NBA..

European/foreign PGs take longer to develop......Frank reminds me of Schroeder a bit

If anything Fox reminds me more of Shroeder with more height. Hes super quick just like Schroeder but also has some traits of John Wall. Frank N kind of looks like Jamal Crawford with less polish

What footage are you watching of Frank N to come to that conclusion? Their games are nothing alike. They are black and skinny though... so there's that.

Every video he has. He has a high loose dribble and has trouble separating from his defender. He does make plays with length but that wont cut it in the NBA.

watch more. Your not scouting very well if thats what you come up with.

Its not even close--Fox is WAY better--not comparable. If Fox showed he could shoot--wed be talking about him as a possible #1 pick. At MINIMUM Fox will be able to rely on his physical ability. Not so with Frank.

But Fox can't shoot and it's easier to tighten up ones handle than it is to learn to shoot. Its. Not just about his ability to hit 3s it's about his ability to shoot anywhere beyond the paint.

Chandler wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Pavvy wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm high on Fox. I don't think his shooting is going to be a problem. Just watching him his shot just needs work with a Pro Shooting coach to his mechanics refined. I like everything else about Fox.

Frank has the physical profile. Those freakishly long arms make him a real interesting defensive prospect. I worry about his handles and quickness. Really hard to judge him in relation to NBA speed. We'll have to wait for reports from workouts.

Smith I have less concerns about him being able to play at the next level. With him it's his mental game that concerns me. Is he capable of being a legit floor general and running a team?

yeah I see both Fox and Smith developing a bit quicker than Frank and they're more of the scoring 2 guards that are out there in the NBA..

European/foreign PGs take longer to develop......Frank reminds me of Schroeder a bit

If anything Fox reminds me more of Shroeder with more height. Hes super quick just like Schroeder but also has some traits of John Wall. Frank N kind of looks like Jamal Crawford with less polish

What footage are you watching of Frank N to come to that conclusion? Their games are nothing alike. They are black and skinny though... so there's that.

Every video he has. He has a high loose dribble and has trouble separating from his defender. He does make plays with length but that wont cut it in the NBA.

I'm more interested in can he defend, does he pass intelligently and willingly, and can he hit an open shot. Why are we judging the guy on how good he is at taking contested shots (i.e., bad shots) and how good is he if he were a ball-hog going 1 on 5

Well would you take Isiah Thomas? He can be a 5-9 ball hog. Im not comparing the two but thats the exact type thinking I dont want. Im watching the NBA playoffs to see what works.

yellowboy90 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Pavvy wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm high on Fox. I don't think his shooting is going to be a problem. Just watching him his shot just needs work with a Pro Shooting coach to his mechanics refined. I like everything else about Fox.

Frank has the physical profile. Those freakishly long arms make him a real interesting defensive prospect. I worry about his handles and quickness. Really hard to judge him in relation to NBA speed. We'll have to wait for reports from workouts.

Smith I have less concerns about him being able to play at the next level. With him it's his mental game that concerns me. Is he capable of being a legit floor general and running a team?

yeah I see both Fox and Smith developing a bit quicker than Frank and they're more of the scoring 2 guards that are out there in the NBA..

European/foreign PGs take longer to develop......Frank reminds me of Schroeder a bit

If anything Fox reminds me more of Shroeder with more height. Hes super quick just like Schroeder but also has some traits of John Wall. Frank N kind of looks like Jamal Crawford with less polish

What footage are you watching of Frank N to come to that conclusion? Their games are nothing alike. They are black and skinny though... so there's that.

Every video he has. He has a high loose dribble and has trouble separating from his defender. He does make plays with length but that wont cut it in the NBA.

watch more. Your not scouting very well if thats what you come up with.

Its not even close--Fox is WAY better--not comparable. If Fox showed he could shoot--wed be talking about him as a possible #1 pick. At MINIMUM Fox will be able to rely on his physical ability. Not so with Frank.

But Fox can't shoot and it's easier to tighten up ones handle than it is to learn to shoot. Its. Not just about his ability to hit 3s it's about his ability to shoot anywhere beyond the paint.

I agree that Fox didnt show a good jumpshot--but that was the difference in him being 1-2 in this draft opposed to 5-8. I think when you look at his J--it will come around. But youre right--he didnt shoot well and I personally am not in love with that. That being said the guy has every other facet of the game down with elite athletic ability.

BRIGGS wrote:Were already been hot on a "tall" lead pg who played good D yet couldn't shoot wellin Jerian Grant and I believe they had him ranked in the lottery.

They better not orgasm at the same thing and keep an open mind

Briggs - are you being critical of Phil's Triangle?

Phil is flexible - just look at how he went out and tried to use Rose- he's not your tall, lead guard/PG that seems to work well in the triangle.

We really could use some luck- and 7 is an awful place to be - sure we could still land a good player.

Fingers crossed.

BRIGGS wrote:

Chandler wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Pavvy wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm high on Fox. I don't think his shooting is going to be a problem. Just watching him his shot just needs work with a Pro Shooting coach to his mechanics refined. I like everything else about Fox.

Frank has the physical profile. Those freakishly long arms make him a real interesting defensive prospect. I worry about his handles and quickness. Really hard to judge him in relation to NBA speed. We'll have to wait for reports from workouts.

Smith I have less concerns about him being able to play at the next level. With him it's his mental game that concerns me. Is he capable of being a legit floor general and running a team?

yeah I see both Fox and Smith developing a bit quicker than Frank and they're more of the scoring 2 guards that are out there in the NBA..

European/foreign PGs take longer to develop......Frank reminds me of Schroeder a bit

If anything Fox reminds me more of Shroeder with more height. Hes super quick just like Schroeder but also has some traits of John Wall. Frank N kind of looks like Jamal Crawford with less polish

What footage are you watching of Frank N to come to that conclusion? Their games are nothing alike. They are black and skinny though... so there's that.

Every video he has. He has a high loose dribble and has trouble separating from his defender. He does make plays with length but that wont cut it in the NBA.

I'm more interested in can he defend, does he pass intelligently and willingly, and can he hit an open shot. Why are we judging the guy on how good he is at taking contested shots (i.e., bad shots) and how good is he if he were a ball-hog going 1 on 5

Well would you take Isiah Thomas? He can be a 5-9 ball hog. Im not comparing the two but thats the exact type thinking I dont want. Im watching the NBA playoffs to see what works.

To be honest I wouldn't take him. I would be one of the ones who would say he's too much a liability on D. And to be honest, that could be totally wrong thinking, and this season the Celts have been doing a good job of making me look foolish as I thought they'd be gone already.

The celts guards (other than Thomas) have played spectacular defense and very tough overall -- they're their toughest rebounders (and the celts continue to use the lost art of team rebounding where guys like crowder and horford on occasion will just box out their guys, knowing the celts guards will outrebound the opponent's wussy guards). So while I.T. is truly fascinating, IMO the celts would be a non-event if it weren't for Bradley, Smart, Crowder and recently Rozier.

Also arguing I.T. is great is not support for choosing Fox. Different players, and I think the Knicks would be correct to implement team passing to get easy shots as opposed to the one-on-5 theatrics that IT is succeeding at (but which most players don't)

And FWIW Hoiberg (sp?) was right; I.T. carries the ball every damn time; it's embarrassing to the officials whenever they show I.T. in replay.

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:Fox, Frank, Smith and Monk could all be in play! Grant isn't in the same class as any of them. Grant was fools gold. I thought he'd be better than this as did a lot of scouts. Sometimes that just happens. All of the guards at the top of this draft are worthy of their ranking. The Knicks wouldn't be reaching by choosing one of them IMO. There's no guarantees in the draft but these are some good players.

Grant had the skills to be a good PG, but hesitation seems to be baked into his game. Thought Jerian might outgrow it as he became more acclimated, but that didnt really happen.

Grant had the full package. Nba pedigree... 5 year college player.... plus he came off a monster tournament. He almost beat Duke by himself... he was a sure thing, but he's proof that nobody is a sure thing.

That's why I don't bank on draft picks, especially when comes to the knicks. we haven't struck gold since EWING, many generations ago. KP and willy are ok, BUT EWING, he carried the knicks from day 1, playoffs yr after yr.

These college kids now coming into the league and breaking down almost instantly, or can't shoot. There really hasn't been any major standouts in a min

Well there has been s few major stand outs... just not the ones the media wanted the Knicks to pick

So what do you bank on? I don't know what your stance is.... you don't like the draft, you don't think any trades work, you don't think the Knicks can sign anybody....