nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Phil said he was going to build the team through free agency in 2015. He had $30m+ that offseason. $30m+ the next offseason. He brought in one two way player who probably comes off the bench on a good team.

He can't build a team. I'd love to hear a defense of Phil that doesn't invoke Melo.

Did Melo fire Fisher? Did Melo hire Hornacek? Did Melo make the trades?

Jesus, this goes so far beyond Melo at this point. Melo is just Phil's scapegoat and you dudes are buying it. Phil has lost KP. He's lost him. With the chaotic blame culture Phil has created. With the coaching confusion Phil has created. With the poor rosters Phil has constructed. Phil signed every single person on the court and every single coach.

Make a case for him without saying the word Melo. Or without mentioning teams that Jerry West or Jerry Krause built.

Lopez was a 2 say player, Galloway 2 way player, Lance Thomas 2 way player, KOQ 2 way player, Holiday 2 way player, Lee 2 way player, Noah 2 way player. Ndour & Baker potential 2 way players with 3 point jumpers developed.

With the 30 mil name the players he should have signed who were available and willing to sign over the last 2 years. Who fit what your looking for and would have put this team in the direction you favor.

Forgot to add KP

Just to clarify, if you're a scrappy player, or a RFA, does that equal 2 way player? You can't be serious labeling these guys as 2-way players. They are barely one-way players. Baker and N'Dour are hanging on by a string just to be legit NBA players. KOQ, Holiday and Thomas are scrappy and they def give effort (some more than others) on D, but none of them offer much of anything on the offensive side of the ball when it counts. Noah is broken down so I wont even consider him....

When I think of 2 way players, I think of guys who can not only defend-well, but can actually score the ball...Jimmy butler, Klay, Serge...just to name a few.

Yes but you're also talking about All Star level players!!! Not every 2 way player is gonna be on that level.

2 way players mean you can play-WELL on both sides of the ball! None of the above mentioned players can score the ball at any type of consistent level...

Melo may be a symptom, Jackson may be a symptom but Dolan is the disease.

This team was awful long before Melo and long before Jackson, those guys are the deck chairs on the Titanic - Dolan is the iceberg.

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Phil said he was going to build the team through free agency in 2015. He had $30m+ that offseason. $30m+ the next offseason. He brought in one two way player who probably comes off the bench on a good team.

He can't build a team. I'd love to hear a defense of Phil that doesn't invoke Melo.

Did Melo fire Fisher? Did Melo hire Hornacek? Did Melo make the trades?

Jesus, this goes so far beyond Melo at this point. Melo is just Phil's scapegoat and you dudes are buying it. Phil has lost KP. He's lost him. With the chaotic blame culture Phil has created. With the coaching confusion Phil has created. With the poor rosters Phil has constructed. Phil signed every single person on the court and every single coach.

Make a case for him without saying the word Melo. Or without mentioning teams that Jerry West or Jerry Krause built.

Lopez was a 2 say player, Galloway 2 way player, Lance Thomas 2 way player, KOQ 2 way player, Holiday 2 way player, Lee 2 way player, Noah 2 way player. Ndour & Baker potential 2 way players with 3 point jumpers developed.

With the 30 mil name the players he should have signed who were available and willing to sign over the last 2 years. Who fit what your looking for and would have put this team in the direction you favor.

Forgot to add KP

Just to clarify, if you're a scrappy player, or a RFA, does that equal 2 way player? You can't be serious labeling these guys as 2-way players. They are barely one-way players. Baker and N'Dour are hanging on by a string just to be legit NBA players. KOQ, Holiday and Thomas are scrappy and they def give effort (some more than others) on D, but none of them offer much of anything on the offensive side of the ball when it counts. Noah is broken down so I wont even consider him....

When I think of 2 way players, I think of guys who can not only defend-well, but can actually score the ball...Jimmy butler, Klay, Serge...just to name a few.

Yes but you're also talking about All Star level players!!! Not every 2 way player is gonna be on that level.

2 way players mean you can play-WELL on both sides of the ball! None of the above mentioned players can score the ball at any type of consistent level...

When it comes to the younger players that just got here I think a little more patience is in order. I have to laugh at this desire to basically close the book on young players and the lack of perspective. Most of our players are UDFA's or lower picks! Can we give them a bit of a chance before completely dismissing them?

That may be the reason for the lack of hope that those players can become rotational players.

fishmike wrote:http://dailyknicks.com/2017/04/17/knicks-trade-rumors-pros-cons-trading-carmelo-anthony/4/

“Right now, we need players that are really active, can play every single play. Defensively and offensively. That’s really important for us. We started to get some players on the floor that can do that, you know, and that’s the direction we have to go.”

It’s unfortunate that such players would be needed to fix the defense, but the numbers support what Jackson is saying.

Anthony finished the 2016-17 regular season at No. 418 in the NBA in Defensive Real Plus-Minus. It’s also worth noting that the Knicks allowed 111.1 points per 100 possessions with the 10-time All-Star on the floor.

Of the players who were on the court for at least 1,000 minutes in 2016-17, no player on the Knicks had a worse defensive rating than Anthony.

By comparison, the Knicks had a team-best defensive rating of 104.7 points per 100 possessions with Anthony on the bench. That’s a difference of 6.4 points per 100 possessions, as well as a telling sign of his influence on the defensive end of the floor.

I have been very supportive of Melo over the recent years. There is no more to discuss. His scoring is down. His eff% is down. His rebounding is down. His assists are down. Hell... even his steals are at a career low. Oh... and he's the worst defensive player in the league.

It will be an ugly divorce with lots of unsavory comments and blame. After that basketball will be played, and perhaps.. just *maybe* shots will be contested

Melo is buddies with everyone in the NBA and in the Knick lockerroom. Of course it will be on Phil, the triangle, Jeff, Dolan, Oak and Rebecca Harlow. If it was on Melo he would have to say "I underperformed" and that does not appear to an option.

Yes its Phil's fault for signing Melo if you need that to be happy. He's also the only one who can fix this. Looks like its going to happen.

Congratulations. You did it again. Amazing discovery. Thank you, we know Melo is not a defensive juggernaut. We know he no longer will fit here. Awesome.

Now please stop using him to defend our real issue. Uncle Phil and his three rosters, 165 losses. Recent show of lack of support by the future of the franchise and the world view of the Knicks.(Yes that includes the NBA and it's players) Funny how in all your great in depth research to find these unknown facts, you failed to notice the very obvious facts above?

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:http://dailyknicks.com/2017/04/17/knicks-trade-rumors-pros-cons-trading-carmelo-anthony/4/

“Right now, we need players that are really active, can play every single play. Defensively and offensively. That’s really important for us. We started to get some players on the floor that can do that, you know, and that’s the direction we have to go.”

It’s unfortunate that such players would be needed to fix the defense, but the numbers support what Jackson is saying.

Anthony finished the 2016-17 regular season at No. 418 in the NBA in Defensive Real Plus-Minus. It’s also worth noting that the Knicks allowed 111.1 points per 100 possessions with the 10-time All-Star on the floor.

Of the players who were on the court for at least 1,000 minutes in 2016-17, no player on the Knicks had a worse defensive rating than Anthony.

By comparison, the Knicks had a team-best defensive rating of 104.7 points per 100 possessions with Anthony on the bench. That’s a difference of 6.4 points per 100 possessions, as well as a telling sign of his influence on the defensive end of the floor.

I have been very supportive of Melo over the recent years. There is no more to discuss. His scoring is down. His eff% is down. His rebounding is down. His assists are down. Hell... even his steals are at a career low. Oh... and he's the worst defensive player in the league.

It will be an ugly divorce with lots of unsavory comments and blame. After that basketball will be played, and perhaps.. just *maybe* shots will be contested

Melo is buddies with everyone in the NBA and in the Knick lockerroom. Of course it will be on Phil, the triangle, Jeff, Dolan, Oak and Rebecca Harlow. If it was on Melo he would have to say "I underperformed" and that does not appear to an option.

Yes its Phil's fault for signing Melo if you need that to be happy. He's also the only one who can fix this. Looks like its going to happen.

Congratulations. You did it again. Amazing discovery. Thank you, we know Melo is not a defensive juggernaut. We know he no longer will fit here. Awesome.

Now please stop using him to defend our real issue. Uncle Phil and his three rosters, 165 losses. Recent show of lack of support by the future of the franchise and the world view of the Knicks.(Yes that includes the NBA and it's players) Funny how in all your great in depth research to find these unknown facts, you failed to notice the very obvious facts above?

Nope. Just focused on what can change and what cant.

A preferable option to blind spouting, which is what you do.

Just curious do you have any numbers with him at the 4 are they the same or close to the same?

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Phil said he was going to build the team through free agency in 2015. He had $30m+ that offseason. $30m+ the next offseason. He brought in one two way player who probably comes off the bench on a good team.

He can't build a team. I'd love to hear a defense of Phil that doesn't invoke Melo.

Did Melo fire Fisher? Did Melo hire Hornacek? Did Melo make the trades?

Jesus, this goes so far beyond Melo at this point. Melo is just Phil's scapegoat and you dudes are buying it. Phil has lost KP. He's lost him. With the chaotic blame culture Phil has created. With the coaching confusion Phil has created. With the poor rosters Phil has constructed. Phil signed every single person on the court and every single coach.

Make a case for him without saying the word Melo. Or without mentioning teams that Jerry West or Jerry Krause built.

Lopez was a 2 say player, Galloway 2 way player, Lance Thomas 2 way player, KOQ 2 way player, Holiday 2 way player, Lee 2 way player, Noah 2 way player. Ndour & Baker potential 2 way players with 3 point jumpers developed.

With the 30 mil name the players he should have signed who were available and willing to sign over the last 2 years. Who fit what your looking for and would have put this team in the direction you favor.

Forgot to add KP

Just to clarify, if you're a scrappy player, or a RFA, does that equal 2 way player? You can't be serious labeling these guys as 2-way players. They are barely one-way players. Baker and N'Dour are hanging on by a string just to be legit NBA players. KOQ, Holiday and Thomas are scrappy and they def give effort (some more than others) on D, but none of them offer much of anything on the offensive side of the ball when it counts. Noah is broken down so I wont even consider him....

When I think of 2 way players, I think of guys who can not only defend-well, but can actually score the ball...Jimmy butler, Klay, Serge...just to name a few.

Yes but you're also talking about All Star level players!!! Not every 2 way player is gonna be on that level.

2 way players mean you can play-WELL on both sides of the ball! None of the above mentioned players can score the ball at any type of consistent level...

That isn't a realistic expectation. You aren't going to have a team of Butlers and Klays. If you do then you are a Warriors level type of team. Which in other words arguably the best team in the league. The only possible way to have been able to build up to that rare level is to have hit on multiple draft picks and/or hit on a jack pot signing, and/or trade.

We didn't really have much draft picks. Our main route to acquire talent is through FA which Butler, Klay, Kawhai etc all resigned with their teams. Players like Carroll and Bazemore got handed 16-18 mil per contracts.

What is realistic is landing guys like Lance, Holiday, Lee who can play defense on the perimeter as well as knock down 3s (Lee 40%, Lance 45%, Holiday 35%).

We need to hit on some elite 2 way play making talent in the draft as well as the development of KP in that mold in order for it all to come together.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Phil said he was going to build the team through free agency in 2015. He had $30m+ that offseason. $30m+ the next offseason. He brought in one two way player who probably comes off the bench on a good team.

He can't build a team. I'd love to hear a defense of Phil that doesn't invoke Melo.

Did Melo fire Fisher? Did Melo hire Hornacek? Did Melo make the trades?

Jesus, this goes so far beyond Melo at this point. Melo is just Phil's scapegoat and you dudes are buying it. Phil has lost KP. He's lost him. With the chaotic blame culture Phil has created. With the coaching confusion Phil has created. With the poor rosters Phil has constructed. Phil signed every single person on the court and every single coach.

Make a case for him without saying the word Melo. Or without mentioning teams that Jerry West or Jerry Krause built.

Lopez was a 2 say player, Galloway 2 way player, Lance Thomas 2 way player, KOQ 2 way player, Holiday 2 way player, Lee 2 way player, Noah 2 way player. Ndour & Baker potential 2 way players with 3 point jumpers developed.

With the 30 mil name the players he should have signed who were available and willing to sign over the last 2 years. Who fit what your looking for and would have put this team in the direction you favor.

Forgot to add KP

Just to clarify, if you're a scrappy player, or a RFA, does that equal 2 way player? You can't be serious labeling these guys as 2-way players. They are barely one-way players. Baker and N'Dour are hanging on by a string just to be legit NBA players. KOQ, Holiday and Thomas are scrappy and they def give effort (some more than others) on D, but none of them offer much of anything on the offensive side of the ball when it counts. Noah is broken down so I wont even consider him....

When I think of 2 way players, I think of guys who can not only defend-well, but can actually score the ball...Jimmy butler, Klay, Serge...just to name a few.

Yes but you're also talking about All Star level players!!! Not every 2 way player is gonna be on that level.

2 way players mean you can play-WELL on both sides of the ball! None of the above mentioned players can score the ball at any type of consistent level...

That isn't a realistic expectation. You aren't going to have a team of Butlers and Klays. If you do then you are a Warriors level type of team. Which in other words arguably the best team in the league. The only possible way to have been able to build up to that rare level is to have hit on multiple draft picks and/or hit on a jack pot signing, and/or trade.

We didn't really have much draft picks. Our main route to acquire talent is through FA which Butler, Klay, Kawhai etc all resigned with their teams. Players like Carroll and Bazemore got handed 16-18 mil per contracts.

What is realistic is landing guys like Lance, Holiday, Lee who can play defense on the perimeter as well as knock down 3s (Lee 40%, Lance 45%, Holiday 35%).

We need to hit on some elite 2 way play making talent in the draft as well as the development of KP in that mold in order for it all to come together.

My only point was guys like Baker, N'Dour, O'Quinn etc...aren't what I call 2 way players. They are fringe players at best....Now that we have our own draft picks, hopefully the direction of this team to target 2-way players who are long and athletic and lead guards who have potential to be elite....

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Phil said he was going to build the team through free agency in 2015. He had $30m+ that offseason. $30m+ the next offseason. He brought in one two way player who probably comes off the bench on a good team.

He can't build a team. I'd love to hear a defense of Phil that doesn't invoke Melo.

Did Melo fire Fisher? Did Melo hire Hornacek? Did Melo make the trades?

Jesus, this goes so far beyond Melo at this point. Melo is just Phil's scapegoat and you dudes are buying it. Phil has lost KP. He's lost him. With the chaotic blame culture Phil has created. With the coaching confusion Phil has created. With the poor rosters Phil has constructed. Phil signed every single person on the court and every single coach.

Make a case for him without saying the word Melo. Or without mentioning teams that Jerry West or Jerry Krause built.

Lopez was a 2 say player, Galloway 2 way player, Lance Thomas 2 way player, KOQ 2 way player, Holiday 2 way player, Lee 2 way player, Noah 2 way player. Ndour & Baker potential 2 way players with 3 point jumpers developed.

With the 30 mil name the players he should have signed who were available and willing to sign over the last 2 years. Who fit what your looking for and would have put this team in the direction you favor.

Forgot to add KP

Just to clarify, if you're a scrappy player, or a RFA, does that equal 2 way player? You can't be serious labeling these guys as 2-way players. They are barely one-way players. Baker and N'Dour are hanging on by a string just to be legit NBA players. KOQ, Holiday and Thomas are scrappy and they def give effort (some more than others) on D, but none of them offer much of anything on the offensive side of the ball when it counts. Noah is broken down so I wont even consider him....

When I think of 2 way players, I think of guys who can not only defend-well, but can actually score the ball...Jimmy butler, Klay, Serge...just to name a few.

Yes but you're also talking about All Star level players!!! Not every 2 way player is gonna be on that level.

2 way players mean you can play-WELL on both sides of the ball! None of the above mentioned players can score the ball at any type of consistent level...

That isn't a realistic expectation. You aren't going to have a team of Butlers and Klays. If you do then you are a Warriors level type of team. Which in other words arguably the best team in the league. The only possible way to have been able to build up to that rare level is to have hit on multiple draft picks and/or hit on a jack pot signing, and/or trade.

We didn't really have much draft picks. Our main route to acquire talent is through FA which Butler, Klay, Kawhai etc all resigned with their teams. Players like Carroll and Bazemore got handed 16-18 mil per contracts.

What is realistic is landing guys like Lance, Holiday, Lee who can play defense on the perimeter as well as knock down 3s (Lee 40%, Lance 45%, Holiday 35%).

We need to hit on some elite 2 way play making talent in the draft as well as the development of KP in that mold in order for it all to come together.

My only point was guys like Baker, N'Dour, O'Quinn etc...aren't what I call 2 way players. They are fringe players at best....Now that we have our own draft picks, hopefully the direction of this team to target 2-way players who are long and athletic and lead guards who have potential to be elite....

I wouldn't call Lance a two way player either. He shoots well from 3 now which is great for him but he only makes 1.4 threes per 36. Lee doesn't shoot many 3s either and his defense is slipping as he gets older. The guy is really overrated. Holiday played way better than I thought he would but he isn't great at anything. I really think it would be bad to resign him for anything over $5m. Honestly I would pay him near the MLE($8m) if the knicks could somehow trade Lee. Lee is really a bench player. If Lee would play with the aggressiveness that Holiday played with he would be a much better player. Holiday shoots nearly double the amount of 3s per 36 as Lee and even though he doesn't shoot it as well he still makes more 3s than Lee and his efficiency is not that far off from Lee.

What's funny is that the knicks have too many people playing out of their roles.

Rose is not a Point. Lee is not a starter. Melo is not a 3. KP is not a 4. Holiday plays too much 3. Lance should not really be the 1st back up forward off the bench. The only guys that really fit in are O'quinn and Willy.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Phil said he was going to build the team through free agency in 2015. He had $30m+ that offseason. $30m+ the next offseason. He brought in one two way player who probably comes off the bench on a good team.

He can't build a team. I'd love to hear a defense of Phil that doesn't invoke Melo.

Did Melo fire Fisher? Did Melo hire Hornacek? Did Melo make the trades?

Jesus, this goes so far beyond Melo at this point. Melo is just Phil's scapegoat and you dudes are buying it. Phil has lost KP. He's lost him. With the chaotic blame culture Phil has created. With the coaching confusion Phil has created. With the poor rosters Phil has constructed. Phil signed every single person on the court and every single coach.

Make a case for him without saying the word Melo. Or without mentioning teams that Jerry West or Jerry Krause built.

Lopez was a 2 say player, Galloway 2 way player, Lance Thomas 2 way player, KOQ 2 way player, Holiday 2 way player, Lee 2 way player, Noah 2 way player. Ndour & Baker potential 2 way players with 3 point jumpers developed.

With the 30 mil name the players he should have signed who were available and willing to sign over the last 2 years. Who fit what your looking for and would have put this team in the direction you favor.

Forgot to add KP

Just to clarify, if you're a scrappy player, or a RFA, does that equal 2 way player? You can't be serious labeling these guys as 2-way players. They are barely one-way players. Baker and N'Dour are hanging on by a string just to be legit NBA players. KOQ, Holiday and Thomas are scrappy and they def give effort (some more than others) on D, but none of them offer much of anything on the offensive side of the ball when it counts. Noah is broken down so I wont even consider him....

When I think of 2 way players, I think of guys who can not only defend-well, but can actually score the ball...Jimmy butler, Klay, Serge...just to name a few.

Yes but you're also talking about All Star level players!!! Not every 2 way player is gonna be on that level.

2 way players mean you can play-WELL on both sides of the ball! None of the above mentioned players can score the ball at any type of consistent level...

That isn't a realistic expectation. You aren't going to have a team of Butlers and Klays. If you do then you are a Warriors level type of team. Which in other words arguably the best team in the league. The only possible way to have been able to build up to that rare level is to have hit on multiple draft picks and/or hit on a jack pot signing, and/or trade.

We didn't really have much draft picks. Our main route to acquire talent is through FA which Butler, Klay, Kawhai etc all resigned with their teams. Players like Carroll and Bazemore got handed 16-18 mil per contracts.

What is realistic is landing guys like Lance, Holiday, Lee who can play defense on the perimeter as well as knock down 3s (Lee 40%, Lance 45%, Holiday 35%).

We need to hit on some elite 2 way play making talent in the draft as well as the development of KP in that mold in order for it all to come together.

My only point was guys like Baker, N'Dour, O'Quinn etc...aren't what I call 2 way players. They are fringe players at best....Now that we have our own draft picks, hopefully the direction of this team to target 2-way players who are long and athletic and lead guards who have potential to be elite....

I wouldn't call Lance a two way player either. He shoots well from 3 now which is great for him but he only makes 1.4 threes per 36. Lee doesn't shoot many 3s either and his defense is slipping as he gets older. The guy is really overrated. Holiday played way better than I thought he would but he isn't great at anything. I really think it would be bad to resign him for anything over $5m. Honestly I would pay him near the MLE($8m) if the knicks could somehow trade Lee. Lee is really a bench player. If Lee would play with the aggressiveness that Holiday played with he would be a much better player. Holiday shoots nearly double the amount of 3s per 36 as Lee and even though he doesn't shoot it as well he still makes more 3s than Lee and his efficiency is not that far off from Lee.

What's funny is that the knicks have too many people playing out of their roles.

Rose is not a Point. Lee is not a starter. Melo is not a 3. KP is not a 4. Holiday plays too much 3. Lance should not really be the 1st back up forward off the bench. The only guys that really fit in are O'quinn and Willy.

KP isn't strong enough to play the 5 so he has to play the 4 or JH would have had KP at the 5 in a heart beat. This pushed Melo down to the 3. Only other alternative would be to have KP come off the bench. But KPs development is more important then Melo.

There have not been much quality available options at SG over these last few years. We have had to settle for the Affalo's and Lee's as the best available options.

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Phil said he was going to build the team through free agency in 2015. He had $30m+ that offseason. $30m+ the next offseason. He brought in one two way player who probably comes off the bench on a good team.

He can't build a team. I'd love to hear a defense of Phil that doesn't invoke Melo.

Did Melo fire Fisher? Did Melo hire Hornacek? Did Melo make the trades?

Jesus, this goes so far beyond Melo at this point. Melo is just Phil's scapegoat and you dudes are buying it. Phil has lost KP. He's lost him. With the chaotic blame culture Phil has created. With the coaching confusion Phil has created. With the poor rosters Phil has constructed. Phil signed every single person on the court and every single coach.

Make a case for him without saying the word Melo. Or without mentioning teams that Jerry West or Jerry Krause built.

Lopez was a 2 say player, Galloway 2 way player, Lance Thomas 2 way player, KOQ 2 way player, Holiday 2 way player, Lee 2 way player, Noah 2 way player. Ndour & Baker potential 2 way players with 3 point jumpers developed.

With the 30 mil name the players he should have signed who were available and willing to sign over the last 2 years. Who fit what your looking for and would have put this team in the direction you favor.

Forgot to add KP

Just to clarify, if you're a scrappy player, or a RFA, does that equal 2 way player? You can't be serious labeling these guys as 2-way players. They are barely one-way players. Baker and N'Dour are hanging on by a string just to be legit NBA players. KOQ, Holiday and Thomas are scrappy and they def give effort (some more than others) on D, but none of them offer much of anything on the offensive side of the ball when it counts. Noah is broken down so I wont even consider him....

When I think of 2 way players, I think of guys who can not only defend-well, but can actually score the ball...Jimmy butler, Klay, Serge...just to name a few.

Yes but you're also talking about All Star level players!!! Not every 2 way player is gonna be on that level.

2 way players mean you can play-WELL on both sides of the ball! None of the above mentioned players can score the ball at any type of consistent level...

That isn't a realistic expectation. You aren't going to have a team of Butlers and Klays. If you do then you are a Warriors level type of team. Which in other words arguably the best team in the league. The only possible way to have been able to build up to that rare level is to have hit on multiple draft picks and/or hit on a jack pot signing, and/or trade.

We didn't really have much draft picks. Our main route to acquire talent is through FA which Butler, Klay, Kawhai etc all resigned with their teams. Players like Carroll and Bazemore got handed 16-18 mil per contracts.

What is realistic is landing guys like Lance, Holiday, Lee who can play defense on the perimeter as well as knock down 3s (Lee 40%, Lance 45%, Holiday 35%).

We need to hit on some elite 2 way play making talent in the draft as well as the development of KP in that mold in order for it all to come together.

Phil said he and his staff are focused on 2 Way Players. He noted that strong on ball defense is a key talent they'll be looking at!!!

You do realize he said the same thing last year and then went out and traded for Rose and then signed Jennings. Why do you take Phil words to heart when his actions tell a different story?

The draft is MUCH different than trying to find players available in the NBA! Who exactly could Phil get that is a bonafide 2 Way player in the NBA that wasn't locked up? His options weren't that great. Now if you look at his other pick ups there are some better defenders. I think you're being a bit too harsh in judging Phil on this. Not possible to always be successful getting a 2 Way player but it doesn't mean they aren't trying.

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Phil said he was going to build the team through free agency in 2015. He had $30m+ that offseason. $30m+ the next offseason. He brought in one two way player who probably comes off the bench on a good team.

He can't build a team. I'd love to hear a defense of Phil that doesn't invoke Melo.

Did Melo fire Fisher? Did Melo hire Hornacek? Did Melo make the trades?

Jesus, this goes so far beyond Melo at this point. Melo is just Phil's scapegoat and you dudes are buying it. Phil has lost KP. He's lost him. With the chaotic blame culture Phil has created. With the coaching confusion Phil has created. With the poor rosters Phil has constructed. Phil signed every single person on the court and every single coach.

Make a case for him without saying the word Melo. Or without mentioning teams that Jerry West or Jerry Krause built.

Lopez was a 2 say player, Galloway 2 way player, Lance Thomas 2 way player, KOQ 2 way player, Holiday 2 way player, Lee 2 way player, Noah 2 way player. Ndour & Baker potential 2 way players with 3 point jumpers developed.

With the 30 mil name the players he should have signed who were available and willing to sign over the last 2 years. Who fit what your looking for and would have put this team in the direction you favor.

Forgot to add KP

Just to clarify, if you're a scrappy player, or a RFA, does that equal 2 way player? You can't be serious labeling these guys as 2-way players. They are barely one-way players. Baker and N'Dour are hanging on by a string just to be legit NBA players. KOQ, Holiday and Thomas are scrappy and they def give effort (some more than others) on D, but none of them offer much of anything on the offensive side of the ball when it counts. Noah is broken down so I wont even consider him....

When I think of 2 way players, I think of guys who can not only defend-well, but can actually score the ball...Jimmy butler, Klay, Serge...just to name a few.

Yes but you're also talking about All Star level players!!! Not every 2 way player is gonna be on that level.

2 way players mean you can play-WELL on both sides of the ball! None of the above mentioned players can score the ball at any type of consistent level...

That isn't a realistic expectation. You aren't going to have a team of Butlers and Klays. If you do then you are a Warriors level type of team. Which in other words arguably the best team in the league. The only possible way to have been able to build up to that rare level is to have hit on multiple draft picks and/or hit on a jack pot signing, and/or trade.

We didn't really have much draft picks. Our main route to acquire talent is through FA which Butler, Klay, Kawhai etc all resigned with their teams. Players like Carroll and Bazemore got handed 16-18 mil per contracts.

What is realistic is landing guys like Lance, Holiday, Lee who can play defense on the perimeter as well as knock down 3s (Lee 40%, Lance 45%, Holiday 35%).

We need to hit on some elite 2 way play making talent in the draft as well as the development of KP in that mold in order for it all to come together.

Phil said he and his staff are focused on 2 Way Players. He noted that strong on ball defense is a key talent they'll be looking at!!!

You do realize he said the same thing last year and then went out and traded for Rose and then signed Jennings. Why do you take Phil words to heart when his actions tell a different story?

you do understand that Phil has probably said a lot of things, including what you noted about but also about needing to upgrade the PG spot, getting one that can break down a defense, etc. It was a lot more than just finding an on-ball defender at the PG spot (which he also got in Baker).

Rose was a low risk, high reward player, we all knew this. Imperfect at best. Injury riddled. Former MVP caliber player.

The Knicks were not in the position to acquire a perfect replacement. The risk failed and now we have $20M to spend in its spot.