knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

It's part of the process when you play a lot of kids. You think the TWolves don't make mistakes? It's not an indictment of our younger players somehow not being normal.

You seem incapable of understanding the development process. I suggest you might not want to watch the development process of ANY YOUNG TEAM if you can't take watching young players make mistakes!!!

What do you think is gonna happen when we add another few rookies???

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

It's part of the process when you play a lot of kids. You think the TWolves don't make mistakes? It's not an indictment of our younger players somehow not being normal.

You seem incapable of understanding the development process. I suggest you might not want to watch the development process of ANY YOUNG TEAM if you can't take watching young players make mistakes!!!

What do you think is gonna happen when we add another few rookies???

This new thing where we only compare the Knicks to the TWolves is really odd.

Was going to make a thread but at this point I'd love for the fans and franchise is to move on and focus on the rebuild.
Melo is neither a bad player nor a great player. He's in over his head as a #1, he can be a really good #2 or a #1 scorer where someone else is seen as the leader of the team and the guy the team is built around.

I don't know what made this year a disaster exactly, but I am happy it went down this way. Indiana, Chicago and Miami are three teams where we could have been. I much rather be where we are, in the draft, having started Willy, NDour, Baker. We gave KP a few games as the man. What we've learned is something positive. KP has learned what it takes to be the man. Baker has learned what it takes to be a starting PG (or PG that plays big minutes). Willy for a starting 5 what it takes. All will work on that this summer. Then we also will draft at lowest 7th instead of 15/16/17.

We're just in a better spot longterm due to the madness that went down this year. Instead of being upset, at how bad Noah turned out, how bad the chemistry of Rose/Melo was, how KP's defense wasn't where it needed to be, or how the entire team's D sucked, I am happy where we are. We have capspace. We have a great draft spot. We have a true sense now that it's over with the Melo era and time to rebuild.

Had things worked out, we may have re-signed Rose to a 100M deal, kept Melo as the man, maybe moved some young players for more vet talent and we'd have drafted 10 spots lower. That team is still not winning anything or going anywhere sort of like Indiana or Chicago won't go anywhere keeping their cores intact (not that they will, but we may have with Melo/Rose/KP/Lee).

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:According to Bondy this was the same game where KP made his top down comment. What a mess.

Makes sense.

BTW I don't know why anyone would read anything that Bondy or Isola has to say, those guys have left the farm long ago.

I can't remember 1 game this season where I thought Rose or Melo played a decent game defensively throughout. Even if they made mistakes, just a game where the effort was palpable all the way through. It's sad. To be an effective leader, you need to put in the effort even it if is not perfect.

Was trying to pay attention to Melo in last night's game, and I know it was a fluff game and all, but on offense all Melo did was stick to the high post on the weak side and either stand there or wait for the ball to come to him. Pretty good summary of his offensive season for me.

agreed. he doesn't run back on D, and actually doesn't run forward on offense either.

the best thing about the article was to get some confirmation that Jeff has some fire. Now, they just need to sit some asses down on the bench and hold people accountable. Does anyone now think that that memorable sequence when Horny turned his back when Melo called his own number, was not a turn in disgust? I know Jeff denied it but c'mon...

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I Thought JH had loss the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

Meh! The vets didn't really come thru for this team so who gives a flip how they feel??? The younger players kept playing hard and listening. At this point it's really not worth arguing over a failed roster. The players we'll be moving forward with and new players added this summer are what matters. We've gotta see who stays, who goes and who we bring in!!!

3 Failed rosters

He (jeff) also pointed out that the younger guys although played hard, they make too many mistakes, and don't do the little things to win games

When we trade Melo I'm hoping we can throw you in the trade as well....

Lost the team at that point? Lost major respect from the veterans? What Veterans? Noah, Melo, Lee, Rose and Lance? I mean you are the desperate housewife of ultimateknicks.com....

How do you lose a team playing well? The teams leadership crumpled. Melo doesn't want to change his game. Rose doesn't want to change. Noah was hurt and out of shape. Lance was hurt. He lost the team because they got off highway. Certain guys never gave up. Holiday, Lee, KOQ, Sasha, Baker...

Jennings said himself that the trade rumors took a toll on the team.... that to me says Melo had more than one blow out about the state of the team. Jennings didn't want to be here anymore because the Knicks don't play together. All of this is because of Melo. He's a selfish mother****er that thought he could still use his stardom to bitch fit his way into firing the coach and team president. Now he's complaining that he doesn't know the direction of the team. He knows the direction..... He just wants no part of that direction.

Now hopefully he gets far away from us... I'm hoping you follow

TripleThreat wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If they do execute a trade for Anthony, it will be one of the most important transactions in Jackson's presidency. Some executives around the league believe that Anthony's trade value would be higher if Jackson hadn't endorsed a column that was critical of Anthony in February.

"That one was surprising," said an executive of a team who spoke to the Knicks about an Anthony trade. "I think [Jackson] really hurt himself there."

Other front offices speak to THEIR best interests, not the Knicks, why would they say anything else other than Melo's value is tanked because of Phil? To say otherwise would be to making the statement that they'd be willing to pay more than bad contracts for Melo. It's in their interest to focus on Melo's value being low and Phil Jackson being the reason. Why? Because if they trade for him, they don't want to openly discuss all of Melo's issues as a player. IF they don't trade for him, they still have no reason to talk about all his issues as a player. Melo's trade value is tanked because of his huge salary, his age, and his refusal to play actual team basketball. No other front office exec will bring that up, they don't need to, it doesn't help them.

However none of them have to deal with the NTC. Jackson does.

How does Jackson hurt himself here? He knows Melo's trade value is tanked whether he says something or says nothing. But he knows sayings something in public will shame Melo and the more you focus the negative spotlight on him and his negative play by choice, the more it hurts the only thing he cares about, his public image and branding.

Melo's trade value is tanked whether Jackson said something or said nothing. Folks here, some want to believe otherwise if they want, but it's not in line with the NBA marketplace environment.

Exactly, if teams are interested they are interested which means they also have players they don't want or want to move.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:According to Bondy this was the same game where KP made his top down comment. What a mess.

The good thing is that the younger players realize what is going on. They actually listen to what the coaches say and to the best of their ability they try to execute. This has to be the same approach from every single player, especially the most talented players. If Melo isn't going to bust it on D then what does that teach everyone else? The same goes for Rose. You can't have a couple of lazy team stars leading the way. I guarantee that if Kawhi Leonard was on this squad with a CP3 they would be much better examples to the younger players. Melo and Rose simply don't give the team that kind of example to follow.

How do you know how the younger players feel? Think you will come to realize that things are more screwed up here than you think and not just Melo and Rose. We have a **** system on offense and NO system on defense. We as also have Phil's guy, who NO one respects, running the defense.

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:According to Bondy this was the same game where KP made his top down comment. What a mess.

The good thing is that the younger players realize what is going on. They actually listen to what the coaches say and to the best of their ability they try to execute. This has to be the same approach from every single player, especially the most talented players. If Melo isn't going to bust it on D then what does that teach everyone else? The same goes for Rose. You can't have a couple of lazy team stars leading the way. I guarantee that if Kawhi Leonard was on this squad with a CP3 they would be much better examples to the younger players. Melo and Rose simply don't give the team that kind of example to follow.

How do you know how the younger players feel? Think you will come to realize that things are more screwed up here than you think and not just Melo and Rose. We have a **** system on offense and NO system on defense. We as also have Phil's guy, who NO one respects, running the defense.

You talk like someone who never actually watches the Knicks play!!! Show me ONE EXAMPLE of the younger players not playing enthusiastically and as a team. They may lose but the younger players actually give effort and execute what the coaches instructed them to the best of their current ability. Obviously being young and inexperienced they make mistakes but they play hard and for each other!!!

I'd like to know what team you've been watching that you haven't seen this!!!

knicks1248 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is tired....

Its just time to part ways. I don't care about this narrative they want to paint. We're not starphuching for Melo. Were on a youth movement.... The end of discussion. Melo has a no trade clause. The Knicks can't trade him. He has to ok a trade. It's not up to the Knicks to try and do anything. I don't want to hear about bitch fits and school girl conversations.

Tell the Knicks which teams you want to go to... and then go. Bye! All this ****ing drama. Let's go Knicks. That's all that matters. Go to another team. Let us pick up the pieces and keep it moving. Enough of this bull**** already

I agree partially... but the Knicks will actually need to negotiate a trade for Melo! He makes $30M with his trade kicker next season. They have to find a team that can fit him into their cap. I'm not sure they can do it.

I hope they can, because this is clearly a mess with him here now.

That was the Nets game we loss and they made 20 3s and absolutely no one played defense and I ThoughtJH had lass the team at that point.

I still feel like JH loss major respect from all of the veterans when HW allowed Phil to come in a change his game plan and judging from the comments regarding veterans in the "post game show that aired last night, he felt the same way

Melo basically saw that the team had no direction and were commitming to winning

F Melo and his 1,000 excuses.

LivingLegend wrote:

Vmart wrote:Melo trying to flip another coach.

I can't stand Melo --- for me he is the primary issue in terms of defensive effort and triangle buy in.

I gain respect for both Horny / Rambis for going after his ass and not taking his whining and bitching.

Get off this team Melo -- go ride a true Stars coattails

Get the **** off my team mother****er!

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:According to Bondy this was the same game where KP made his top down comment. What a mess.

Makes sense.

BTW I don't know why anyone would read anything that Bondy or Isola has to say, those guys have left the farm long ago.

I can't remember 1 game this season where I thought Rose or Melo played a decent game defensively throughout. Even if they made mistakes, just a game where the effort was palpable all the way through. It's sad. To be an effective leader, you need to put in the effort even it if is not perfect.

Was trying to pay attention to Melo in last night's game, and I know it was a fluff game and all, but on offense all Melo did was stick to the high post on the weak side and either stand there or wait for the ball to come to him. Pretty good summary of his offensive season for me.

Are you kidding?

This was the first time you noticed Melo never moves on offense? Dude that is every blanking night. He is the reason the triangle stops when he is in the game -- he has never moved.

No it wasn't the first time I noticed. I was just relaying that I was paying particular attention to him last night

The Knicks had the 5th best defense in the league in the lockout season 2011-12 built around Melo not playing much defense. The difference is they had Shumpert, Jeffries, Tyson Chandler and other plus defenders in the lineup. Defense is a skill. You need long, rangy, quick players who know how to play defense. It's a skill. If you're going to commit to building around Melo and then not bring in a bunch of plus defenders around him, you're going to struggle. It's what Karl did in Denver. It's what the Knicks did before Phil showed up.

How many plus defenders are on the roster? That's going to continue to be a problem going forward. The defense is not going to be magically fixed next year. It'll probably be better with Melo and Rose out. But the offense may also take a step back. It's time to rebuild of course. But it's partially time to rebuild because Phil never surrounded Melo with the defensive players he's always needed to succeed. In fact, he traded away two in Tyson and Shump and got very little in return. The good players he's drafted, KP and Willy, have their own defensive shortcomings. Phil will need to recognize that and surround those two with defensive players or we will continue to be very bad at defense.

Defense is a skill. Just like shooting is. You can work on both, but it's a skill that some guys are naturally gifted at and some guys are not. Guys here like to act like its about effort. I don't really believe that to be true. Andre Drummond doesn't just give max effort every night. He's just a good defensive player. We all saw Tyson Chandler not give max effort every night. But he's just a good defensive player.

The obsession with the Triangle and the failure to address the other side of the ball will continue to be the problem. Phil focused on Melo not moving the ball this season. I never heard him once complain that the team was constructed to give up 108ppg. How many games did we lose 118-112? Offense was not the issue.