fishmike wrote:

Zebo13 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Last night you start Sasha/Lee/Baker 3 guys who came out and set the tone defensively. Suddenly Willy/KP dont look so horrific.

Amazing and telling the quotes from last night's game:

KP:

“I think we came out way better than the first game against the Heat [Wednesday],” Porzingis said. “They kind of punked us the first game. We came out with a different mentality, playing strong, defense the whole game and offensively we shared the ball. It was the defense that made us win the game.”

Lee:

We competed the whole game

Baker:

Everyone was playing together

Hornacek:

Defense was played for 48 minutes

Melo:

“Honestly I don’t know my role at this point,”

This squad is a long way away from being a good team but there are some pieces that work and others that do not.

I loved everything I saw last night but one thing remains, Willy had a long way to go defensively. Pretty much clueless in many situations. Defensive rebounding as well. Now he's a euro rookie against guys bigger and more athletic than he's ever seen, so a learning curve is to be expected.

He stinks defensively. But there is plenty of effort there and good physical tools. He's a very strong, very quick and very long player (wingspan). Maybe he's an average rotation guy. Maybe he's a hall of famer. Time will tell but they both looked much better playing in behind a much better defensive effort.

Without a doubt.

The skills of Sasha/Lee/Baker

1- All 3 can shoot (or have no hesitation shooting the ball from outside)
2- All 3 play unselfish and look to pass
3- All 3 play with a high energy level
4- All 3 move off the ball
5- All 3 don't let the ball "stick"

The right talent around KP/Willy and the defense and offense looks much better. I don't see any reason to abandon KP/Willy at ages 21/22. Give it a year, maybe 2 years and get the same characteristics you have with Sasha/Lee/Baker, only at a higher level, around them. See how it goes. There is no downside to this. Upside is huge. Downside? We're a 25 win team that drafts top 5 next year. We develop KP/Willy and whomever the 2017 pick is, and can add another top 5 talent in 2018.

Anothere thing is O'Quinn. O'Quinn's defense inside has been quite good. Hie chemistry with KP is very good. Early in the season when O'Quinn filled in for Noah as starter, with KP at 4, I believe we were 5-0 at one point. O'Quinn can come in early when Willy is struggling. KP must focus on his defensive stance, his angles using his feet and how to keep his arms straight up. He's already shown less fouls in recent weeks. I hope he can work on this as well as his post game over the summer. Th thing about KP at 4, it gives the Knicks a nightmare mismatch. Alot of 5's can push KP out of the paint and can use their size to bother his jumpshot. Literally no 4 in the league can do this.

In March we ran the Triangle as our main offense and KP/Willy thrived. Their usage rate went up. Their scoring numbers went up. KP went up to a 25% usage rate and Willy 24%. KP with a 45.1 FG% 18.4 ppg this while struggling with the 3 ball down the stretch of the season. If KP's three ball goes back up next year, or improves, he'll be very good overall in this offense. His 2 pointers in March were at 52% which is very good for a player still learning how to play in the post and create his own shot. He either needs to shoot less three pointers or work on his 3 pointer to have more arc, as he does not have a great shot out there yet. That's the difference in KP being an efficient 50% 20 points a night scorer and being a 18 point streaky shooter. Better decisions on what is a good shot.

Willy's numbers in March were 11.4 points a game at over 51% shooting. Willy missed many easy one's around the basket, and I think he can become a far better scorer inside over time. He's still not at his physical peak, and remember as a rookie I doubt he is fresg as daisy during the long regular season grind. He certainly didn't get to play like this last year in the Spanish League, at this kind of intensity. He is learning how to face elite 5's every night and got that chance this month. His rolling is really good. He gets to the basket very quick and has great touch inside. He needs to keep working on his body. I find he isn't at his physical peak and will be best served getting a little lighter so he can get up and down more and also move his feet better. Get fitter, Willy.

Swishfm3 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:Last night you start Sasha/Lee/Baker 3 guys who came out and set the tone defensively. Suddenly Willy/KP dont look so horrific.

Amazing and telling the quotes from last night's game:

KP:

“I think we came out way better than the first game against the Heat [Wednesday],” Porzingis said. “They kind of punked us the first game. We came out with a different mentality, playing strong, defense the whole game and offensively we shared the ball. It was the defense that made us win the game.”

Lee:

We competed the whole game

Baker:

Everyone was playing together

Hornacek:

Defense was played for 48 minutes

Melo:

“Honestly I don’t know my role at this point,”

This squad is a long way away from being a good team but there are some pieces that work and others that do not.

CLASSIC!! As your the first to make fun of Briggs for knee jerk threads. Yes the yoots had great energy. What did Miami shoot from 3 though? What stretch 4's does Miami have? Fact of the matter is, as bad as they shot we almost lost the game if not for Dragic missing layup. Your right though, Was good to see the efforr level. But kinda Funny how your celebrating a meaningless win. As your a tank guy. Lets keep this lineup for next few years the same as last night. Will love how quickly people turn on them. Baker, all of a sudden is starting grade. Smh. But don't worry, I will save this thread for next year when the yoots are getting mauled without true talent.

You don't get it. Its a win WITHOUT Melo, THAT is what matters

RonSanity!!!!

Thats my point. Matters to who? Melo haters? True Knick fans know Melo is not the biggest issue. Specially going forward. We will still suck and for many more years. Melo haters are too busy trying ylto get their heads out of their ass to notice.

crzymdups wrote:1 rebound, no assists, no blocks for KP today in 27 minutes. -18 +/-

3 rebounds for Willy in 19min. -17+/-

Countless alley oops, dunks, and layups for Boston.

If I didn't know any better, I'd think Melo and Rose played and made it hard for KP and Willy.

Not happy about the loss, but the lack of guard talent on this team is appalling. And when the Knicks play a team that can go small and spread the floor like Boston - KP and Willy lineup is a liability.

Your agenda is becoming painfully obvious
KP and Willy shot a combined 12-19 for 25 points in 49 minutes
Saha and Ron shot poorly
Offense was a problem in this game
They could not get going and Boston got out and pushed the ball on us once we missed lots of shots

No one has ever said a team of Sasha and Ron starting can beat Boston my god that's insanity to think that

But if our guards played like how they played against Miami we would be competitive every night. As i said after the Miami game, neither Ron or Sasha can do that on a nightly basis. But if we go out and find a couple of guards that can play like how Sasha and Ron did against Miami as an average output, meaning it was within their means to play that way consistently, the Knicks would do much better with KP/Willy.

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:1 rebound, no assists, no blocks for KP today in 27 minutes. -18 +/-

3 rebounds for Willy in 19min. -17+/-

Countless alley oops, dunks, and layups for Boston.

If I didn't know any better, I'd think Melo and Rose played and made it hard for KP and Willy.

Not happy about the loss, but the lack of guard talent on this team is appalling. And when the Knicks play a team that can go small and spread the floor like Boston - KP and Willy lineup is a liability.

Your agenda is becoming painfully obvious
KP and Willy shot a combined 12-19 for 25 points in 49 minutes
Saha and Ron shot poorly
Offense was a problem in this game
They could not get going and Boston got out and pushed the ball on us once we missed lots of shots

No one has ever said a team of Sasha and Ron starting can beat Boston my god that's insanity to think that

But if our guards played like how they played against Miami we would be competitive every night. As i said after the Miami game, neither Ron or Sasha can do that on a nightly basis. But if we go out and find a couple of guards that can play like how Sasha and Ron did against Miami as an average output, meaning it was within their means to play that way consistently, the Knicks would do much better with KP/Willy.

My god dude. Boston was up by 25 in this game.

Rebounding matters. Defense matters.

You think it's an agenda, but it's honestly not. Well, if you my agenda is pointing out that Melo is not the only problem with this team... sure. That's my agenda. To stop people for blaming Melo for a team with massive top to bottom problems. One game against a mediocre Miami team that was on its 3rd game in 4 nights and missing starters is not enough to impress me.

A 7'3" guy needs to grab more than one rebound in 27 minutes. If Willy had been snatching up all the rebounds that'd be another thing, but he wasn't either. Boston out rebounded the Knicks by a lot. The defense was very bad. If we had been scoring better and Boston didn't take their foot off the gas, they could've scored 120+ easily. You know another reason there weren't a lot of rebounds? Boston shot 55%. And it wasn't just hot shooting. It was wide open shots. We were told the defense was all due to the effort problems of DRose and Melo. If I have an agenda, it is this - that's BS. The problems go waaaaay deeper.

Literally every time they lose Hof is out here telling us how bad KP is on D, and how Willy can't defend either. Crazy is always talking Melo up when Menlo has added little value for a 25 million a year player. It's become ridiculous. Blaming the defense so much on KP and Willy the two youngest players on the team? lol

The team has to get better guard play, KP and Willy need to improve on D and O.

But KP and Willy are a start. We need more and they will only play their best if there is defenders around them who can stay closer to their man and on offense players that move the ball and can shoot.

Who is this "we"? I've never said all the problems are Rose n Melo. I've said the team does not get enough from Rose n Melo and the net impact from them is not much. I think we win 25 games without them and if we are a 30 win with them. Not worth the headache and the near $50 million pay.

To me games against Miami and Orlando show not that KP and Willy are stars. It shows that Melo and Rose made little impact on this team this year. We got blown out with them. Poor defence without them. Long losing streaks with them. Some great games once in a while. Same for us without them. What's their net added value? That the team is not worse with them? Come on these guys are supposed to be great players. Hold to them some standard. You take the two best players off most good teams they seriously suffer. So far I've seen us be a 2-3 wins every 10 games with Melo/Rose and the same without them.

nyknickzingis wrote:The Knicks have 64$M of their payroll out against a near full strength contender (Bradley was out) and it's all on KP and Willy that the team does not defend or score enough?

Literally every time they lose Hof is out here telling us how bad KP is on D, and how Willy can't defend either. Crazy is always talking Melo up when Menlo has added little value for a 25 million a year player. It's become ridiculous. Blaming the defense so much on KP and Willy the two youngest players on the team? lol

The team has to get better guard play, KP and Willy need to improve on D and O.

But KP and Willy are a start. We need more and they will only play their best if there is defenders around them who can stay closer to their man and on offense players that move the ball and can shoot.

Who is this "we"? I've never said all the problems are Rose n Melo. I've said the team does not get enough from Rose n Melo and the net impact from them is not much. I think we win 25 games without them and if we are a 30 win with them. Not worth the headache and the near $50 million pay.

To me games against Miami and Orlando show not that KP and Willy are stars. It shows that Melo and Rose made little impact on this team this year. We got blown out with them. Poor defence without them. Long losing streaks with them. Some great games once in a while. Same for us without them. What's their net added value? That the team is not worse with them? Come on these guys are supposed to be great players. Hold to them some standard. You take the two best players off most good teams they seriously suffer. So far I've seen us be a 2-3 wins every 10 games with Melo/Rose and the same without them.

I don't think anyone ever claimed Rose or even Melo was still a great player. The problem is not all on KP and Willy, just like it's not all on Rose and Melo. The problem is the roster, the offense, the defense, the lineups on the floor, the general talent level. Phil has had three off seasons, in two of those he has had over $30m in cap room. There's just no talent on this team. Beating Miami and Orlando doesn't really do much for me. Orlando lost by ten to the Nets last night, playing all their best guys 30min. Miami has very little talent on their roster, they were missing Waiters and they've been playing on sheer grit and were on their 3rd game in 4 nights.

I fully agree it's time to move on from Melo and Rose. The problem is what else is on the roster and there is not much NBA talent. And what talent that is present doesn't make sense together. It's a mess. If you think that means I have an agenda I don't know what to tell you. My agenda is that I'm bummed the only team I care about is a goddamn train wreck.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:1 rebound, no assists, no blocks for KP today in 27 minutes. -18 +/-

3 rebounds for Willy in 19min. -17+/-

Countless alley oops, dunks, and layups for Boston.

If I didn't know any better, I'd think Melo and Rose played and made it hard for KP and Willy.

Not happy about the loss, but the lack of guard talent on this team is appalling. And when the Knicks play a team that can go small and spread the floor like Boston - KP and Willy lineup is a liability.

Your agenda is becoming painfully obvious
KP and Willy shot a combined 12-19 for 25 points in 49 minutes
Saha and Ron shot poorly
Offense was a problem in this game
They could not get going and Boston got out and pushed the ball on us once we missed lots of shots

No one has ever said a team of Sasha and Ron starting can beat Boston my god that's insanity to think that

But if our guards played like how they played against Miami we would be competitive every night. As i said after the Miami game, neither Ron or Sasha can do that on a nightly basis. But if we go out and find a couple of guards that can play like how Sasha and Ron did against Miami as an average output, meaning it was within their means to play that way consistently, the Knicks would do much better with KP/Willy.

My god dude. Boston was up by 25 in this game.

Rebounding matters. Defense matters.

You think it's an agenda, but it's honestly not. Well, if you my agenda is pointing out that Melo is not the only problem with this team... sure. That's my agenda. To stop people for blaming Melo for a team with massive top to bottom problems. One game against a mediocre Miami team that was on its 3rd game in 4 nights and missing starters is not enough to impress me.

A 7'3" guy needs to grab more than one rebound in 27 minutes. If Willy had been snatching up all the rebounds that'd be another thing, but he wasn't either. Boston out rebounded the Knicks by a lot. The defense was very bad. If we had been scoring better and Boston didn't take their foot off the gas, they could've scored 120+ easily. You know another reason there weren't a lot of rebounds? Boston shot 55%. And it wasn't just hot shooting. It was wide open shots. We were told the defense was all due to the effort problems of DRose and Melo. If I have an agenda, it is this - that's BS. The problems go waaaaay deeper.

This. 4 rebounds for our starting pf and c combined. Willy and kp nay do fine offensively at times, but there are still huge holes in their games.

I don't like making major assumptions about the projections for our kids. That said, this was clearly an aberration for Willy. He averages 14 rbs per 36 min! He's been a rebounding machine and he just had a really unusual game.

It's the way Boston plays - their bigs set up outside. It leaves the middle of the floor wide open, which is why you saw all those alley oops to guards. It's not like Boston is alone in this style of play now. The Willy/KP lineup will struggle mightily with teams that play this way. We obviously desperately need guards. But I think we still desperately need a Josh Jackson / Jae Crowder type combo forward who would allow us to play small ball. A guy who could cover small ball 4s with speed and range and length. That's one reason I was interested in OG Anonuby when I thought we'd be drafting in the mid teens. I think it's the type of player you can find in the second round - Dillon Brooks might be an option at 44 or so.

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:1 rebound, no assists, no blocks for KP today in 27 minutes. -18 +/-

3 rebounds for Willy in 19min. -17+/-

Countless alley oops, dunks, and layups for Boston.

If I didn't know any better, I'd think Melo and Rose played and made it hard for KP and Willy.

Not happy about the loss, but the lack of guard talent on this team is appalling. And when the Knicks play a team that can go small and spread the floor like Boston - KP and Willy lineup is a liability.

Your agenda is becoming painfully obvious
KP and Willy shot a combined 12-19 for 25 points in 49 minutes
Saha and Ron shot poorly
Offense was a problem in this game
They could not get going and Boston got out and pushed the ball on us once we missed lots of shots

No one has ever said a team of Sasha and Ron starting can beat Boston my god that's insanity to think that

But if our guards played like how they played against Miami we would be competitive every night. As i said after the Miami game, neither Ron or Sasha can do that on a nightly basis. But if we go out and find a couple of guards that can play like how Sasha and Ron did against Miami as an average output, meaning it was within their means to play that way consistently, the Knicks would do much better with KP/Willy.

My god dude. Boston was up by 25 in this game.

Rebounding matters. Defense matters.

You think it's an agenda, but it's honestly not. Well, if you my agenda is pointing out that Melo is not the only problem with this team... sure. That's my agenda. To stop people for blaming Melo for a team with massive top to bottom problems. One game against a mediocre Miami team that was on its 3rd game in 4 nights and missing starters is not enough to impress me.

A 7'3" guy needs to grab more than one rebound in 27 minutes. If Willy had been snatching up all the rebounds that'd be another thing, but he wasn't either. Boston out rebounded the Knicks by a lot. The defense was very bad. If we had been scoring better and Boston didn't take their foot off the gas, they could've scored 120+ easily. You know another reason there weren't a lot of rebounds? Boston shot 55%. And it wasn't just hot shooting. It was wide open shots. We were told the defense was all due to the effort problems of DRose and Melo. If I have an agenda, it is this - that's BS. The problems go waaaaay deeper.

This. 4 rebounds for our starting pf and c combined. Willy and kp nay do fine offensively at times, but there are still huge holes in their games.

I don't like making major assumptions about the projections for our kids. That said, this was clearly an aberration for Willy. He averages 14 rbs per 36 min! He's been a rebounding machine and he just had a really unusual game.

It's the way Boston plays - their bigs set up outside. It leaves the middle of the floor wide open, which is why you saw all those alley oops to guards. It's not like Boston is alone in this style of play now. The Willy/KP lineup will struggle mightily with teams that play this way. We obviously desperately need guards. But I think we still desperately need a Josh Jackson / Jae Crowder type combo forward who would allow us to play small ball. A guy who could cover small ball 4s with speed and range and length. That's one reason I was interested in OG Anonuby when I thought we'd be drafting in the mid teens. I think it's the type of player you can find in the second round - Dillon Brooks might be an option at 44 or so.

I think Isaac would become that guy but it will take a few years as his body matures but I think he is a natural rebounder. I also think he was handcuff similar to how Towns was handcuff at UK. Towns was more impactful but Isaac played with a more mature team so he had to take even more of a step back. Isaac held back by his teammates and Towns by Cal. I bet on the NBA you'll see Isaac use his handle more