How is this so antiquated??

KP will be a god with this!! Melo has done it, but he is so instinctively programmed to shoot first (he is a very good shooter!!) that he can't/Won't adapt.
No doubt having Jordan/Pippen, Kobe/Shaq or Kobe/Pau makes a big difference. Melo/KP could have been good. Rose/KP could have been good.
Its not working. Chuck the system or keep trying to get get the talent?
Have they tried to let Rose/Melo/kp play a less complicated system? How did that work?
Nalod don't have the answers, but what is it about playing a disciplined game that is impossible?

Paris907 wrote:The Ny Media is filled with Phil hatred. Sure, he's not Riles but Melo ain't Kobe either. The Rose deal, The Jennings deal were 1 year deals that I've no issue with. As Noah was a former defensive player of the year he was worth the gamble and it didn't pan out. I thought firing two coaches could have been avoided and didn't think the latter ready for prime time.

What will Phil be remembered for as Pres in NY? I propose that the wheel wheel is still in spin. Grab a Monk or a Fox or another young two way player to play with KP. Lee is fine and so is Lance and OQuinn and Randle among others but the core is undefined. Phil wants to build a championship team not a .500 ball club. Is Willy partnof that? Maybe. But two years from now all the Phil hatred will be under the bridge if there's a young dynamic team in Place and if NY will suddenly be a place that FAs want to be.

The bigs on this roster don't defend, I watch KOQ stand 7 feet from the player shooting, he didn't even put a hand up because he was slow on the close out, so instead he ran for the rebound, but the shot went in...This happens frequently which is why he was yank yesterday. Same thing goes for, kp, willy and Noah, they are either scared to come out, or was told not to.

I have a dvr, so im able to rewind, stop, slow down to see why the knicks give up so many wide open 3's. Its quite simple, once the opposing team looks as if he is penetrating, 4 of our players converge into the paint, a simple kick out, and another extra pass, and that player is wide open for a 3.

You know why were one of the top rebounding teams in the league, it's because we crash the boards, most teams are not doing that anymore, for fear of getting beat in transition, and transitions are resulting in 3's not lay ups.

Noah, Lance, lee, holiday, baker, KOQ, willy, that's more than enough defensive minded players for us not to be this bad defensively unless your system is flawed

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:phil has been here. It's not happening EVER-- that's reality. Get rid of Phil Jackson -- this job was over his head and he was neither flexible or transparent. He's a coach not a President

You realize Dolan will select his replacement don't you- who would you prefer? Mills, Houston or IT? Because those are your options. I wish those calling for Phils head would think ahead first.

All anyone would have to do when they took over when Phil did was stop trading firsts, and wait until you have your first rounders back, then build via the draft. Thats what Phil has done, but people are in tears about it because it requires losing. This is why IT use to say you can't rebuild in new york. Do you think Suns & lakers fans are crying right now? Or are they looking forward to Fultz or Ball?

Or do you have some sort of ingenious plan that somehow adds young, elite players not via the draft? Please share it with us!

Dolan was rumored to be interested in Masai last summer and his deal ends when Phil's ends. I don't think someone should be allowed to do an awful job because there is fear that someone might be more incompetent. The only gm that Dolan has had that was reasonably competent was Grunwald and his firing was rather mysterious. So yeah Dolan has been a wild card and generally makes bad choices. I just don't know how it is possible to find 2 out of your last 5 gms that impact every level of basketball operations in a negative way. Phil has sabotaged another coaching staff, made bad trades, does not have relationships around the league, created an environment where players don't want to come or stay etc. He has drafted KP, and Willy. He hasn't traded the 2018 first round pick. But how long can you keep a job because you mess up really badly but just not as bad as the worst guy?

Do you really think Phil is going to continue to try and put a Win Now Roster around Melo again?

Seems to me that Phil is set up to go with a youth movement given he has 3 picks and DL prospects that need a look see. Literally EVERYTHING is pointing in the direction of a change in approach.

I think Phil and Jeff have accepted that the younger players are more coachable and open minded to instruction. My guess is they want more players like that.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:phil has been here. It's not happening EVER-- that's reality. Get rid of Phil Jackson -- this job was over his head and he was neither flexible or transparent. He's a coach not a President

You realize Dolan will select his replacement don't you- who would you prefer? Mills, Houston or IT? Because those are your options. I wish those calling for Phils head would think ahead first.

All anyone would have to do when they took over when Phil did was stop trading firsts, and wait until you have your first rounders back, then build via the draft. Thats what Phil has done, but people are in tears about it because it requires losing. This is why IT use to say you can't rebuild in new york. Do you think Suns & lakers fans are crying right now? Or are they looking forward to Fultz or Ball?

Or do you have some sort of ingenious plan that somehow adds young, elite players not via the draft? Please share it with us!

Dolan was rumored to be interested in Masai last summer and his deal ends when Phil's ends. I don't think someone should be allowed to do an awful job because there is fear that someone might be more incompetent. The only gm that Dolan has had that was reasonably competent was Grunwald and his firing was rather mysterious. So yeah Dolan has been a wild card and generally makes bad choices. I just don't know how it is possible to find 2 out of your last 5 gms that impact every level of basketball operations in a negative way. Phil has sabotaged another coaching staff, made bad trades, does not have relationships around the league, created an environment where players don't want to come or stay etc. He has drafted KP, and Willy. He hasn't traded the 2018 first round pick. But how long can you keep a job because you mess up really badly but just not as bad as the worst guy?

Do you really think Phil is going to continue to try and put a Win Now Roster around Melo again?

Seems to me that Phil is set up to go with a youth movement given he has 3 picks and DL prospects that need a look see. Literally EVERYTHING is pointing in the direction of a change in approach.

I think Phil and Jeff have accepted that the younger players are more coachable and open minded to instruction. My guess is they want more players like that.

I agree that he tried to do that to some extent this year but he took huge risks in doing it. He also filled out the roster with 6 rookies. Five of those guys are undrafted. The Knicks found some talent but if you consider that Noah, and Rose have very bad injury histories he was taking a huge chance having that lack of talent/experience on a win now roster with serious injury concerns. So I am not sure what Phil plans on doing. He does seem to find that guys starting their careers or trying to stick in the nba are more open to the triangle. But does that mean another reset?

Well it's not a reset as in bringing in Free Agents. It's building a new FOUNDATION with more talented young players. The Draft alone is adding 3 young players.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:phil has been here. It's not happening EVER-- that's reality. Get rid of Phil Jackson -- this job was over his head and he was neither flexible or transparent. He's a coach not a President

You realize Dolan will select his replacement don't you- who would you prefer? Mills, Houston or IT? Because those are your options. I wish those calling for Phils head would think ahead first.

All anyone would have to do when they took over when Phil did was stop trading firsts, and wait until you have your first rounders back, then build via the draft. Thats what Phil has done, but people are in tears about it because it requires losing. This is why IT use to say you can't rebuild in new york. Do you think Suns & lakers fans are crying right now? Or are they looking forward to Fultz or Ball?

Or do you have some sort of ingenious plan that somehow adds young, elite players not via the draft? Please share it with us!

Dolan was rumored to be interested in Masai last summer and his deal ends when Phil's ends. I don't think someone should be allowed to do an awful job because there is fear that someone might be more incompetent. The only gm that Dolan has had that was reasonably competent was Grunwald and his firing was rather mysterious. So yeah Dolan has been a wild card and generally makes bad choices. I just don't know how it is possible to find 2 out of your last 5 gms that impact every level of basketball operations in a negative way. Phil has sabotaged another coaching staff, made bad trades, does not have relationships around the league, created an environment where players don't want to come or stay etc. He has drafted KP, and Willy. He hasn't traded the 2018 first round pick. But how long can you keep a job because you mess up really badly but just not as bad as the worst guy?

Do you really think Phil is going to continue to try and put a Win Now Roster around Melo again?

Seems to me that Phil is set up to go with a youth movement given he has 3 picks and DL prospects that need a look see. Literally EVERYTHING is pointing in the direction of a change in approach.

I think Phil and Jeff have accepted that the younger players are more coachable and open minded to instruction. My guess is they want more players like that.

I agree that he tried to do that to some extent this year but he took huge risks in doing it. He also filled out the roster with 6 rookies. Five of those guys are undrafted. The Knicks found some talent but if you consider that Noah, and Rose have very bad injury histories he was taking a huge chance having that lack of talent/experience on a win now roster with serious injury concerns. So I am not sure what Phil plans on doing. He does seem to find that guys starting their careers or trying to stick in the nba are more open to the triangle. But does that mean another reset?

Well it's not a reset as in bringing in Free Agents. It's building a new FOUNDATION with more talented young players. The Draft alone is adding 3 young players.

two of those picks are second rounders. Hopefully the Knicks get those right but they are far from a sure thing. I don't think you can bank on the second rounders being more talented then guys currently on the roster. Lets hope they get those picks right. The Bulls pick could turn out to have some value if they keep free falling but the Rockets pick is going to be at the end of the draft.

From my perspective this team has been more successful than not in getting value in the draft and UDFA's. Also the lower cost moves have been solid. Now that they are most likely going to stay away from those costly and failed big name signings I think they have more chances for success doing more of what they've been good at so far.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:phil has been here. It's not happening EVER-- that's reality. Get rid of Phil Jackson -- this job was over his head and he was neither flexible or transparent. He's a coach not a President

You realize Dolan will select his replacement don't you- who would you prefer? Mills, Houston or IT? Because those are your options. I wish those calling for Phils head would think ahead first.

All anyone would have to do when they took over when Phil did was stop trading firsts, and wait until you have your first rounders back, then build via the draft. Thats what Phil has done, but people are in tears about it because it requires losing. This is why IT use to say you can't rebuild in new york. Do you think Suns & lakers fans are crying right now? Or are they looking forward to Fultz or Ball?

Or do you have some sort of ingenious plan that somehow adds young, elite players not via the draft? Please share it with us!

Dolan was rumored to be interested in Masai last summer and his deal ends when Phil's ends. I don't think someone should be allowed to do an awful job because there is fear that someone might be more incompetent. The only gm that Dolan has had that was reasonably competent was Grunwald and his firing was rather mysterious. So yeah Dolan has been a wild card and generally makes bad choices. I just don't know how it is possible to find 2 out of your last 5 gms that impact every level of basketball operations in a negative way. Phil has sabotaged another coaching staff, made bad trades, does not have relationships around the league, created an environment where players don't want to come or stay etc. He has drafted KP, and Willy. He hasn't traded the 2018 first round pick. But how long can you keep a job because you mess up really badly but just not as bad as the worst guy?

Do you really think Phil is going to continue to try and put a Win Now Roster around Melo again?

Seems to me that Phil is set up to go with a youth movement given he has 3 picks and DL prospects that need a look see. Literally EVERYTHING is pointing in the direction of a change in approach.

I think Phil and Jeff have accepted that the younger players are more coachable and open minded to instruction. My guess is they want more players like that.

I agree that he tried to do that to some extent this year but he took huge risks in doing it. He also filled out the roster with 6 rookies. Five of those guys are undrafted. The Knicks found some talent but if you consider that Noah, and Rose have very bad injury histories he was taking a huge chance having that lack of talent/experience on a win now roster with serious injury concerns. So I am not sure what Phil plans on doing. He does seem to find that guys starting their careers or trying to stick in the nba are more open to the triangle. But does that mean another reset?

Well it's not a reset as in bringing in Free Agents. It's building a new FOUNDATION with more talented young players. The Draft alone is adding 3 young players.

two of those picks are second rounders. Hopefully the Knicks get those right but they are far from a sure thing. I don't think you can bank on the second rounders being more talented then guys currently on the roster. Lets hope they get those picks right. The Bulls pick could turn out to have some value if they keep free falling but the Rockets pick is going to be at the end of the draft.

From my perspective this team has been more successful than not in getting value in the draft and UDFA's. Also the lower cost moves have been solid. Now that they are most likely going to stay away from those costly and failed big name signings I think they have more chances for success doing more of what they've been good at so far.

Staying away from costly free agents might be the best move at this point. Also, that Bulls pick might end up in the high thirties. I know they won last night but they are a mess. If there is a young guy that the Knicks want I wonder if they offer a deal like the Nets did last year trying to bring in young talent.

Just curious. Looking around the league at most teams that are good right now:

Golden State had to suck for a few years to draft Curry, Thompson.
OKC had to suck for a few years to draft Durant, Westbrook, Harden.
Clippers were bad for years, they had to draft Griffen, Gordon, Aminu, Bledsoe and then trade for CP3 using those draft assets.
Cavs even they had to stink for years to draft Irving, Wiggins, Bennet, Thomspon, and then send some of those draft assets to Wolves for Love. Which made them attractive to Lebron to come back home to.

Teams like Milwaukee, Minnesota who are loaded with talent. Who we all seem to love on this board. Well how many picks have they had?

Minneosta:
Laine was a #13 pich in 2014. We didn't have pick.
Towns was the #1 pick in 2015. We drafted KP #4.
Dunn was a #5 pick in 2016. We couldn't draft because before Phil became a Knick, the team traded away it's pick.

Milwaukeee
Giannis was picked in the 2013 draft. We drafted late in this one and pre-Phil.
Jabar Parker was a #3 pick in 2014. We couldn't draft.
Thon Maker was a #10 pick in 2016. We couldn't draft.
We literally - well Phil - has had CRAP in the draft to work with. He's had one draft in 3 years where he had a chance to get a star, and he hit the homerun. He got the best star talent available at 4. He's found possibly another high level player in Willy in the second round.

It's exceptionally hard to become a good team in this league without draft picks. With Phil, maybe one could say he could have gotten more picks out of the trades he made. But what has killed him is been the inability for us to have our own lottery picks. We lost our lottery pick in 2014 and 2016. You add those two pieces to Porzingis, Willy and all of a sudden the team is looking completely different. All of a sudden Phil doesn't have the pressure to sign veterans because he has young talent he can invest in. He didn't sign a veteran to a longterm deal at 4, knowing KP is his longterm 4. Same way had we drafted in 2014 and 2016 at other positions, we wouldn't have invested big contracts in veterans.

It's really tough to become a good team without draft picks. Then factor Phil Jackson never was wiling to give up future draft picks, made it very tough to get a really deal go through. I don't see the reason to hate Phil Jackson. He doesn't trade draft picks. He picks well. He believes in the process of drafting players and developping them. I would like to see him get this coming draft and then next year's draft to see what we look like after. If we have a young core of good players, I see no reason to be upset. There isn't a single good team in the league outside of the Spurs, that didn't have to go through 3-4 years of losing to become a good team.

Again, had Phil been given the opportunity to draft in 2014 and 2016, we would be talking about this team completely differently and him as an executive, Based on his track record so far, he would have done well in both drafts and we'd have 4 young longterm starters right now with KP, Willy and the 2 picks of 2014/2016.