fwk00 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:This is what the reality looked like

Jackson inherits a Knicks' roster that doesn't have much flexibility in the near future.

With or without Anthony, the Knicks are expected to be over the salary cap this summer because of the contracts of Amar'e Stoudemire ($23.4 million), Tyson Chandler ($14.6 million) and Andrea Bargnani ($11.5 million), which run through 2014-15.

So Jackson probably will have to trade one of those three players if he wants to reshape the roster.

Oh, that's way too rosy a picture of what Jax inherited. There was Amare punching a fire hydrant. Then we had Felton caught up in a domestic dispute involving a firearm that kept Azzhola and Berman in prime time Knicks bashing mode. By now, Walsh was being thrown under the bus, wheelchair and all. And Chandler spent the season ringing up technical fouls for, well, just being an a-hole on the court just about every time he set foot on the court.

Yeah, the good old days when today's Jax bashers were convinced "there is no way Jax can trade Felton or Chandler. NO WAY. Our players suck compare to all the other players in the league". Yep. Jax should have been able to do some other magical thinking maneuvers to have gotten exactly the right players in return. Not that we weren't thrilled to actually have acquired two second round picks in a draft year when we had ZERO.

Oh, oh, let's NOT forget Fisher's contribution to dysfunction by getting cought up in an extramarital affair that played out as a public fist-fight. Let's blame Phil for something there too.

The fumes of Bargnani still permeated the rafters at MSG. And when we tried to resign Lin of course Houston twisted the knife in our backs pretty well.

So yeah, its easy to see how its all Jax's fault, the Knicks world is an imperfect one - what else to do but blame the administration for the will of the basketball gods.

Idiots.

It's easy to see you're on the msg payroll because you always blame the players and never any management decision.

Re-signing Lin? Huh? That happened two years before Jackson arrived.

If Phil wanted to blow it up, maybe he should've moved Melo when he could've gotten something in return for him. It's funny how all the supposed worthless untradeable Knicks are still in the league and most of the guys Phil traded Tyson and Felton for are out of the league. Funny how you can trade almost anything if you're willing to take garbage in return.

Also, funny to blame Fisher who was handpicked by Jackson.

Blame annnnnyone but Jackson. It's cool. By the way that team of garbage parts that Phil had to give away for dog poop finished the season 14-6. No roster Phil has ever assembled here in the three years since then has ever won 14 out of 20 games at any point.

Yeah, I do lose track of how smoothly the Knicks functioned before Phil. Boy do we miss those days.

You know people like you dump on everyone wearing a knicks jersey and then whine as if we just traded Lebron for Noah. I was even good with what Isiah tried to do. It ended disastrously but he played a very limited set of options he was given and failed. I forgive him.

Running the Knicks is not easy and all you armchair GMs make it sound like child's play. Grow the F up. If you are looking for perfection given where we've been you will never be content even when we start winning.

Find a post of me dumping on a Knicks player.

You're the one constantly blaming the players in all your posts. Guess what, when an organization cycles through over 120 players in 16 years and has one good season and continual dysfunction and constant terrible defense for eight or ten or however many different coaches... It ain't the players, it ain't the coaches - it's the organization. There's a lack of accountability from the very top and it trickles down and infests every level.

The Knicks will never be good til Dolan sells or moves on. And I will look forward to that day. And in the meantime, I'll gladly stay here to call BS on you blaming the players for this **** show.

nyknickzingis wrote:Knicks were bad before Phil came to town

At least he got us KP and a future

Not upset with him

Dolan is the bigger problem

The kicks were not bad before phil got there

2010-11 42-40 6th seed- Amare & Melo for half a season-Walsh 3rd season
2011-12 36-30 7th seed-lockout season-Amare gets injured in the playoffs
2012-13 54-26 2nd seed-kidd fades,

Enters phil

2013-14 37-45 9th place in the east we were 18 games under 500 in feb-finish the season 16-6 after the all star break.. 7 game win streak
2014-15 17-65 16th the most lost in franchise history
2015-16 32-50 3rd worst in the east
2016-17 24-36 were on pace for another 32 win season.

What would stop KP or Willy from moving on to a better situation and a better chance at winning a title else where like going to play with towns or or paul george, derozen, or westbrook

You think they will do like melo and play in NY despite the constant losing and dysfunction

knicks1248 wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Knicks were bad before Phil came to town

At least he got us KP and a future

Not upset with him

Dolan is the bigger problem

The kicks were not bad before phil got there

2010-11 42-40 6th seed- Amare & Melo for half a season-Walsh 3rd season
2011-12 36-30 7th seed-lockout season-Amare gets injured in the playoffs
2012-13 54-26 2nd seed-kidd fades,

Enters phil

2013-14 37-45 9th place in the east we were 18 games under 500 in feb-finish the season 16-6 after the all star break.. 7 game win streak
2014-15 17-65 16th the most lost in franchise history
2015-16 32-50 3rd worst in the east
2016-17 24-36 were on pace for another 32 win season.

What would stop KP or Willy from moving on to a better situation and a better chance at winning a title else where like going to play with towns or or paul george, derozen, or westbrook

You obviously haven't heard of bird rights or restricted free agency.

You anti-tankers don't grasp even the most basic tenants of the CBA, which is probably why you oppose us tanking and getting a high pick. Earliest you can add a top young talent is about 9 years into their career, and even then you have to hope that their current team doesn't deem them worthy of a max contract.

First they sign the rookie contract, then you can extend them before they hit free agency, and if they don't want to to do that then they enter restricted free agency the following year, which means you can match any offer, which then ties them up for another 4 years, by which point the enter unrestricted free agency but you can give them much bigger pay rises (even bigger than under the last CBA) per year and a 5yr deal (other teams can only offer 4).

I can't believe you still think we can add top tier talent via free agency and not via the draft.

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:This is what the reality looked like

Jackson inherits a Knicks' roster that doesn't have much flexibility in the near future.

With or without Anthony, the Knicks are expected to be over the salary cap this summer because of the contracts of Amar'e Stoudemire ($23.4 million), Tyson Chandler ($14.6 million) and Andrea Bargnani ($11.5 million), which run through 2014-15.

So Jackson probably will have to trade one of those three players if he wants to reshape the roster.

Oh, that's way too rosy a picture of what Jax inherited. There was Amare punching a fire hydrant. Then we had Felton caught up in a domestic dispute involving a firearm that kept Azzhola and Berman in prime time Knicks bashing mode. By now, Walsh was being thrown under the bus, wheelchair and all. And Chandler spent the season ringing up technical fouls for, well, just being an a-hole on the court just about every time he set foot on the court.

Yeah, the good old days when today's Jax bashers were convinced "there is no way Jax can trade Felton or Chandler. NO WAY. Our players suck compare to all the other players in the league". Yep. Jax should have been able to do some other magical thinking maneuvers to have gotten exactly the right players in return. Not that we weren't thrilled to actually have acquired two second round picks in a draft year when we had ZERO.

Oh, oh, let's NOT forget Fisher's contribution to dysfunction by getting cought up in an extramarital affair that played out as a public fist-fight. Let's blame Phil for something there too.

The fumes of Bargnani still permeated the rafters at MSG. And when we tried to resign Lin of course Houston twisted the knife in our backs pretty well.

So yeah, its easy to see how its all Jax's fault, the Knicks world is an imperfect one - what else to do but blame the administration for the will of the basketball gods.

Idiots.

It's easy to see you're on the msg payroll because you always blame the players and never any management decision.

Re-signing Lin? Huh? That happened two years before Jackson arrived.

If Phil wanted to blow it up, maybe he should've moved Melo when he could've gotten something in return for him. It's funny how all the supposed worthless untradeable Knicks are still in the league and most of the guys Phil traded Tyson and Felton for are out of the league. Funny how you can trade almost anything if you're willing to take garbage in return.

Also, funny to blame Fisher who was handpicked by Jackson.

Blame annnnnyone but Jackson. It's cool. By the way that team of garbage parts that Phil had to give away for dog poop finished the season 14-6. No roster Phil has ever assembled here in the three years since then has ever won 14 out of 20 games at any point.

Moved Melo where? His nearest bidder was paying 35 million less. If he let him walk you all would still be butchering Phil for letting him go for nothing.

Please list the players you would have traded Tyson and Felton for realistically.

Zero accountability on the legendary player who demands changes every off season to "compete", then doesn't. But lets just blame everybody else.

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Knicks were bad before Phil came to town

At least he got us KP and a future

Not upset with him

Dolan is the bigger problem

Knicks won 54 games before Phil came to town. He traded the guts of that team for zero return, which is why we're in year three of a rebuild that probably has about four more years to go.

The team we have right now isn't better. Phil has made so many changes yet the results are not there. He deserves criticism. But he also has done a good job from the longrun stand point. The team will be drafting a quality talent this year to add to KP and Willy. We had two players in KP and Willy who went to the rising stars game. When is the last time that happened especially two bigs?

The real problem with Phil is that he's on a 5 year plan, when initially he told Melo and everyone thought he was brought in to sign big names and increase the odds of a championship immediately. He instead has stated he came in to install a system and create a long term rebuild. Well many guys can do that, and to pay someone like Phil to do a 5-6 year rebuild, it's not as justifiable. Here's the thing though. Dolan knows many others can do just as mediocre a job as Phil has done. Many can do the longterm plan thing. Draft some young players, develop them. Keep capspace open constantly, hoping to add free agents that can elevate your team every year. It's not some brilliant plan, many teams have that plan. The reason why Dolan pays Phil the big bucks is the attention. All the attention is directed towards Jackson. No one even cares about Dolan anymore and didn't, until he did that stupid spat with Oakley that brought the heat right back to Dolan (which will shift soon again). Phil's being paid this money to take the heat that was otherwise going to Dolan. Phil's plans are about post-Melo. He will try to get Melo talent to win now, but not go all out for Melo. You see his moves, all his moves are more like a 1 or 2 base hit. He doesn't go all out to get a star in his prime for Melo, because he is not invested in trading picks and trading future for present. He is about a future where they are good players with KP, Willy, and our draft picks being part of that.

I don't know if it all will work out, but as a Knicks fan suffering for the last 2 decades, I find this way of thinking refreshing. I wish Phil would talk to the fans more and be less of an ass to his players. He is who he is. I do like his longterm plan. He does not mortgage the future in hopes he can make some 1-2 round runs in the playoffs. He takes risks like Rose to get something going, but nothing longterm. When Melo opts out in 2018, we may be in a great situation (unless we trade him). By then Willy and KP will be peaking. We'll have maybe 2 more lottery picks added (2017 and 2018). And we'll have so much capspace. The way some pretend Phil has been, it's as if we are the Nets. You want to see a horribly run franchise, it's what we were. We made trades that cost us LOTTERY picks. That's when you are truly an awfully run franchise.

BigRedDog wrote:He is such a negative jerk, wanting to attack Phil at every opportunity. From his article today talking about a rose- Rubio trade---
"Had the deal gone through, Jackson would have essentially traded Rose, Jerian Grant and Robin Lopez for Rubio. That's bad."

Not sure if he ever took math in high school but if the deal went through it would have been Lopez and Grant for Rubio and Holiday. Not too bad. What a fuking mess Isola is.

FRANK ASSHOLA

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Knicks were bad before Phil came to town

At least he got us KP and a future

Not upset with him

Dolan is the bigger problem

Knicks won 54 games before Phil came to town. He traded the guts of that team for zero return, which is why we're in year three of a rebuild that probably has about four more years to go.

Getting rid of the crap he got rid of wasn't the wrong decision though cause they needed to go and we needed to go true rebuild which us fans were calling for for years. The problem is the way he went about the rebuild and then not being able to stay with a true rebuild and signing more vets. He should of just stuck with going full rebuild from the beginning and we'd be in much better shape right now with more young players. Now of course he still didn't have a 1st round pick in last years draft because of the damn Bargnani trade but he's kept himself from trading away any future draft picks and actually added some 2nd round picks which we haven't seen a Knicks GM do in many years.

Phil has done some bad moves and off the court thing but he doesn't get enough credit for some of the good things he's done for this team besides KP. Trading for Billy was a great move as was the KOQ trade and some of the younger players we have in Kuz, R.Burgandy, J.Holiday were good moves, keeping all of our draft picks was also great and i still love L.Thomas. I know he's been out of the picture this year and when he has played he didn't do much but i think we've seen the last couple of games what he can still bring this team.

crzymdups wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Knicks were bad before Phil came to town

At least he got us KP and a future

Not upset with him

Dolan is the bigger problem

Knicks won 54 games before Phil came to town. He traded the guts of that team for zero return, which is why we're in year three of a rebuild that probably has about four more years to go.

You guys really need to get over this 54 games thing. Phil was hired on March 2014, we were a 37 win team in 2013-14 season.

Record: 37-45, Finished 3rd in NBA Atlantic Division
Coach: Mike Woodson (37-45)
PTS/G: 98.6 (20th of 30) Opp PTS/G: 99.4 (8th of 30)
SRS: -1.40 (19th of 30) Pace: 90.3 (28th of 30)
Off Rtg: 108.3 (11th of 30) Def Rtg: 109.1 (24th of 30)
Expected W-L: 39-43 (18th of 30)
Arena: Madison Square Garden (IV) Attendance: 812,292 (3rd of 30)

Save the revisionist history and get you facts straight. We are not in year 3 of a rebuild. We are in Year 0.5 of a rebuild after 2.5 years of "putting players around Melo". Hopefully we done chasing that wild goose, because I don't know about you but I am tired of watching this 3 ring circus.

Exaggerating the value of the players we traded and ridiculing the current roster must feel good and fits with the agenda, but it's not based on reality. 54 wins my ass.

http://www.espn.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/10607795/phil-jackson-deal-new-york-knicks-finalized

Really? What was the 17 win season? Why did Rambis call last year "Year 0"?

Do you remember that 17 win season and the players we had?? That was the team that Phil broke down and started the rebuild so it was full of crap besides Melo and he only played like half of the games as did Amare'.

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Knicks were bad before Phil came to town

At least he got us KP and a future

Not upset with him

Dolan is the bigger problem

Knicks won 54 games before Phil came to town. He traded the guts of that team for zero return, which is why we're in year three of a rebuild that probably has about four more years to go.

You guys really need to get over this 54 games thing. Phil was hired on March 2014, we were a 37 win team in 2013-14 season.

Record: 37-45, Finished 3rd in NBA Atlantic Division
Coach: Mike Woodson (37-45)
PTS/G: 98.6 (20th of 30) Opp PTS/G: 99.4 (8th of 30)
SRS: -1.40 (19th of 30) Pace: 90.3 (28th of 30)
Off Rtg: 108.3 (11th of 30) Def Rtg: 109.1 (24th of 30)
Expected W-L: 39-43 (18th of 30)
Arena: Madison Square Garden (IV) Attendance: 812,292 (3rd of 30)

Save the revisionist history and get you facts straight. We are not in year 3 of a rebuild. We are in Year 0.5 of a rebuild after 2.5 years of "putting players around Melo". Hopefully we done chasing that wild goose, because I don't know about you but I am tired of watching this 3 ring circus.

Exaggerating the value of the players we traded and ridiculing the current roster must feel good and fits with the agenda, but it's not based on reality. 54 wins my ass.

http://www.espn.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/10607795/phil-jackson-deal-new-york-knicks-finalized

Really? What was the 17 win season? Why did Rambis call last year "Year 0"?

Do you remember that 17 win season and the players we had?? That was the team that Phil broke down and started the rebuild so it was full of crap besides Melo and he only played like half of the games as did Amare'.

If the 2014-15 season was a rebuild, then I think my original comment that we're in year three of a rebuild is fair. Also, I think it's fair to point out that trading a young PG for Rose and signing old Noah are not consistent with a rebuild.

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:This is what the reality looked like

Jackson inherits a Knicks' roster that doesn't have much flexibility in the near future.

With or without Anthony, the Knicks are expected to be over the salary cap this summer because of the contracts of Amar'e Stoudemire ($23.4 million), Tyson Chandler ($14.6 million) and Andrea Bargnani ($11.5 million), which run through 2014-15.

So Jackson probably will have to trade one of those three players if he wants to reshape the roster.

Oh, that's way too rosy a picture of what Jax inherited. There was Amare punching a fire hydrant. Then we had Felton caught up in a domestic dispute involving a firearm that kept Azzhola and Berman in prime time Knicks bashing mode. By now, Walsh was being thrown under the bus, wheelchair and all. And Chandler spent the season ringing up technical fouls for, well, just being an a-hole on the court just about every time he set foot on the court.

Yeah, the good old days when today's Jax bashers were convinced "there is no way Jax can trade Felton or Chandler. NO WAY. Our players suck compare to all the other players in the league". Yep. Jax should have been able to do some other magical thinking maneuvers to have gotten exactly the right players in return. Not that we weren't thrilled to actually have acquired two second round picks in a draft year when we had ZERO.

Oh, oh, let's NOT forget Fisher's contribution to dysfunction by getting cought up in an extramarital affair that played out as a public fist-fight. Let's blame Phil for something there too.

The fumes of Bargnani still permeated the rafters at MSG. And when we tried to resign Lin of course Houston twisted the knife in our backs pretty well.

So yeah, its easy to see how its all Jax's fault, the Knicks world is an imperfect one - what else to do but blame the administration for the will of the basketball gods.

Idiots.

It's easy to see you're on the msg payroll because you always blame the players and never any management decision.

Re-signing Lin? Huh? That happened two years before Jackson arrived.

If Phil wanted to blow it up, maybe he should've moved Melo when he could've gotten something in return for him. It's funny how all the supposed worthless untradeable Knicks are still in the league and most of the guys Phil traded Tyson and Felton for are out of the league. Funny how you can trade almost anything if you're willing to take garbage in return.

Also, funny to blame Fisher who was handpicked by Jackson.

Blame annnnnyone but Jackson. It's cool. By the way that team of garbage parts that Phil had to give away for dog poop finished the season 14-6. No roster Phil has ever assembled here in the three years since then has ever won 14 out of 20 games at any point.

Yeah, I do lose track of how smoothly the Knicks functioned before Phil. Boy do we miss those days.

You know people like you dump on everyone wearing a knicks jersey and then whine as if we just traded Lebron for Noah. I was even good with what Isiah tried to do. It ended disastrously but he played a very limited set of options he was given and failed. I forgive him.

Running the Knicks is not easy and all you armchair GMs make it sound like child's play. Grow the F up. If you are looking for perfection given where we've been you will never be content even when we start winning.

Well said. I love how people that sit behind computers act like they could run a NBA team like it's easy to do but in fact they'd be absolutely lost in that position. It's so easy to sit behind a computer and say "we should of done this" or "we should of done that" and saying this after the fact.

To be fair most people have said Phil's moves have been horrible right when they happen. A lot of us were down on the Tyson trade, the Shump trade, the Rose trade, the Noah signing, etc. This is revisionist. This is wondering what the hell the plan is.

As many people have also said, the only thing scarier than Phil is what Dolan might bring in after Phil. So I'm fine with Phil building through the draft. I'm less excited about what trades or free agents he'll sign.

The plan is obviously to continue to make trades that you don't like because there isn't a tarde Phil can make that you won't find fault with. Easy plan.