SupremeCommander wrote:

Chandler wrote:There's no way we're getting a first rounder for a 30 game rental.

If he was locked up on that deal we could get a 1 but not w the present one

I disagree. We won't get a lotto pick but I think a first is definitely in play. How many decent back up point guards are available?

Hey, who wouldn't want a first rounder. I just think it's unrealistic. His best traits are he's a willing passer and wants to be a knick. His worst traits are an inconsistent shot and very undisciplined play: he literally throws away the ball at times (not bad passes -- atrocious ones; just hand the ball to the other team passes); he also will couple some good D with unnecessary zealousness -- i.e., stupid fouls. Those things add up. Think how many games we've lost by a couple of points.

I'm all in on a first rounder but suspect if he's traded it's part of a package or we're getting a second rounder and hopefully leaving on good terms to resign him

i'd be happier at this point if Drose was moving for whatever is being considered

Chandler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Chandler wrote:There's no way we're getting a first rounder for a 30 game rental.

If he was locked up on that deal we could get a 1 but not w the present one

I disagree. We won't get a lotto pick but I think a first is definitely in play. How many decent back up point guards are available?

Hey, who wouldn't want a first rounder. I just think it's unrealistic. His best traits are he's a willing passer and wants to be a knick. His worst traits are an inconsistent shot and very undisciplined play: he literally throws away the ball at times (not bad passes -- atrocious ones; just hand the ball to the other team passes); he also will couple some good D with unnecessary zealousness -- i.e., stupid fouls. Those things add up. Think how many games we've lost by a couple of points.

I'm all in on a first rounder but suspect if he's traded it's part of a package or we're getting a second rounder and hopefully leaving on good terms to resign him

i'd be happier at this point if Drose was moving for whatever is being considered

I don't necessarily disagree with your overall points regarding Jennings... But the market is the market. The market is what sets prices.

These are the top teams in the league who I think would be in the market for upgrades, where possible:

Cleveland gives 10mpg to Kay Felder (who?)
Boston gives 18mpg to Terry Rozier
Washington gives 13mpg to Trey Burke
Toronto gives 23mpg to Corey Joseph
Atlanta gives 18 mpg to Malcolm Delaney
Indy gives 19 mpg to Rodney Stuckey
GS gives 17 mpg to Shaun Livingston
San Antonio gives 21mpg to Patty Mills
Houston gives 30.5 mpg to Patrick Beverly
LAC gives 23mpg to Raymond Felton
Utah gives 21mpg to Shelvin Mack
Memphis gives 17mpg to Toney Douglas
OKC gives 16mpg to Cameron Payne

So out of 13 teams, IMO 3 would downgrade by acquiring Jennings. The other 10? Vast improvement. Acouple of the BUs are young and may have better careers than Jennings - but are not better this year.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Chandler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Chandler wrote:There's no way we're getting a first rounder for a 30 game rental.

If he was locked up on that deal we could get a 1 but not w the present one

I disagree. We won't get a lotto pick but I think a first is definitely in play. How many decent back up point guards are available?

Hey, who wouldn't want a first rounder. I just think it's unrealistic. His best traits are he's a willing passer and wants to be a knick. His worst traits are an inconsistent shot and very undisciplined play: he literally throws away the ball at times (not bad passes -- atrocious ones; just hand the ball to the other team passes); he also will couple some good D with unnecessary zealousness -- i.e., stupid fouls. Those things add up. Think how many games we've lost by a couple of points.

I'm all in on a first rounder but suspect if he's traded it's part of a package or we're getting a second rounder and hopefully leaving on good terms to resign him

i'd be happier at this point if Drose was moving for whatever is being considered

I don't necessarily disagree with your overall points regarding Jennings... But the market is the market. The market is what sets prices.

These are the top teams in the league who I think would be in the market for upgrades, where possible:

Cleveland gives 10mpg to Kay Felder (who?)
Boston gives 18mpg to Terry Rozier
Washington gives 13mpg to Trey Burke
Toronto gives 23mpg to Corey Joseph
Atlanta gives 18 mpg to Malcolm Delaney
Indy gives 19 mpg to Rodney Stuckey
GS gives 17 mpg to Shaun Livingston
San Antonio gives 21mpg to Patty Mills
Houston gives 30.5 mpg to Patrick Beverly
LAC gives 23mpg to Raymond Felton
Utah gives 21mpg to Shelvin Mack
Memphis gives 17mpg to Toney Douglas
OKC gives 16mpg to Cameron Payne

So out of 13 teams, IMO 3 would downgrade by acquiring Jennings. The other 10? Vast improvement. Acouple of the BUs are young and may have better careers than Jennings - but are not better this year.

Nice list. Now the 2nd filter would be...which of these teams think they are 1 piece away to go far in the playoffs?

Cleveland, Atlanta, LAC, Memphis and OKC. They need that backup PG for this coming playoff season. 3rd filter is who has the assets to satisfy us?

Cleveland have squat this draft.
Atlanta has late 1st rounder(#20) and the first pick in the 2nd round and the #50 pick.
Clippers have squat this draft.
Memphis have squat this draft.
OKC has a mid 1st rounder(#18) and 2 2nd rounders #48 and #53

I would target Atlanta and OKC. Would love to have a 1st rounder but that might be too high. I would be happy with the 1st pick in the 2nd round from Atlanta.

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Chandler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Chandler wrote:There's no way we're getting a first rounder for a 30 game rental.

If he was locked up on that deal we could get a 1 but not w the present one

I disagree. We won't get a lotto pick but I think a first is definitely in play. How many decent back up point guards are available?

Hey, who wouldn't want a first rounder. I just think it's unrealistic. His best traits are he's a willing passer and wants to be a knick. His worst traits are an inconsistent shot and very undisciplined play: he literally throws away the ball at times (not bad passes -- atrocious ones; just hand the ball to the other team passes); he also will couple some good D with unnecessary zealousness -- i.e., stupid fouls. Those things add up. Think how many games we've lost by a couple of points.

I'm all in on a first rounder but suspect if he's traded it's part of a package or we're getting a second rounder and hopefully leaving on good terms to resign him

i'd be happier at this point if Drose was moving for whatever is being considered

I don't necessarily disagree with your overall points regarding Jennings... But the market is the market. The market is what sets prices.

These are the top teams in the league who I think would be in the market for upgrades, where possible:

Cleveland gives 10mpg to Kay Felder (who?)
Boston gives 18mpg to Terry Rozier
Washington gives 13mpg to Trey Burke
Toronto gives 23mpg to Corey Joseph
Atlanta gives 18 mpg to Malcolm Delaney
Indy gives 19 mpg to Rodney Stuckey
GS gives 17 mpg to Shaun Livingston
San Antonio gives 21mpg to Patty Mills
Houston gives 30.5 mpg to Patrick Beverly
LAC gives 23mpg to Raymond Felton
Utah gives 21mpg to Shelvin Mack
Memphis gives 17mpg to Toney Douglas
OKC gives 16mpg to Cameron Payne

So out of 13 teams, IMO 3 would downgrade by acquiring Jennings. The other 10? Vast improvement. Acouple of the BUs are young and may have better careers than Jennings - but are not better this year.

Nice list. Now the 2nd filter would be...which of these teams think they are 1 piece away to go far in the playoffs?

Cleveland, Atlanta, LAC, Memphis and OKC. They need that backup PG for this coming playoff season. 3rd filter is who has the assets to satisfy us?

Cleveland have squat this draft.
Atlanta has late 1st rounder(#20) and the first pick in the 2nd round and the #50 pick.
Clippers have squat this draft.
Memphis have squat this draft.
OKC has a mid 1st rounder(#18) and 2 2nd rounders #48 and #53

I would target Atlanta and OKC. Would love to have a 1st rounder but that might be too high. I would be happy with the 1st pick in the 2nd round from Atlanta.

So what if a team has squat this draft. Draft picks are fine any year. If we can get 2 2nd rounders for Jennings in the year 3000 we should do it on principle.

Rose is making 22 million
He plays for himself
He makes no one around him better

If I'm the Knicks I keep BJ unless it's a first round pick. He has much better chemistry with KP, Willy and moves the ball. Try to re-sign him at 20$M/4 years

nyknickzingis wrote:Some fans surprise me
BJ is making 5 million
Less than the average salary in the league
He has been a good player to move the ball and bring leadership and intensity

Rose is making 22 million
He plays for himself
He makes no one around him better

If I'm the Knicks I keep BJ unless it's a first round pick. He has much better chemistry with KP, Willy and moves the ball. Try to re-sign him at 20$M/4 years

I don't think BJ will take 20/4

BJ is easier to trade than Rose. That's why he would be the one to be traded. Not cuz Knicks don't like him. They can always try to resign him in the offseason like Yankees did with Chapman.

fishmike wrote:Pick #31 from Atl is a very nice spot to be in. That would be a nice chip for Jennings.

Yeah I would be fine with that. Gotta keep things in perspective. If Phil can do better than that great! He's got an asset which is what you hope a rental can be in a situation like this.

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Chandler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Chandler wrote:There's no way we're getting a first rounder for a 30 game rental.

If he was locked up on that deal we could get a 1 but not w the present one

I disagree. We won't get a lotto pick but I think a first is definitely in play. How many decent back up point guards are available?

Hey, who wouldn't want a first rounder. I just think it's unrealistic. His best traits are he's a willing passer and wants to be a knick. His worst traits are an inconsistent shot and very undisciplined play: he literally throws away the ball at times (not bad passes -- atrocious ones; just hand the ball to the other team passes); he also will couple some good D with unnecessary zealousness -- i.e., stupid fouls. Those things add up. Think how many games we've lost by a couple of points.

I'm all in on a first rounder but suspect if he's traded it's part of a package or we're getting a second rounder and hopefully leaving on good terms to resign him

i'd be happier at this point if Drose was moving for whatever is being considered

I don't necessarily disagree with your overall points regarding Jennings... But the market is the market. The market is what sets prices.

These are the top teams in the league who I think would be in the market for upgrades, where possible:

Cleveland gives 10mpg to Kay Felder (who?)
Boston gives 18mpg to Terry Rozier
Washington gives 13mpg to Trey Burke
Toronto gives 23mpg to Corey Joseph
Atlanta gives 18 mpg to Malcolm Delaney
Indy gives 19 mpg to Rodney Stuckey
GS gives 17 mpg to Shaun Livingston
San Antonio gives 21mpg to Patty Mills
Houston gives 30.5 mpg to Patrick Beverly
LAC gives 23mpg to Raymond Felton
Utah gives 21mpg to Shelvin Mack
Memphis gives 17mpg to Toney Douglas
OKC gives 16mpg to Cameron Payne

So out of 13 teams, IMO 3 would downgrade by acquiring Jennings. The other 10? Vast improvement. Acouple of the BUs are young and may have better careers than Jennings - but are not better this year.

Nice list. Now the 2nd filter would be...which of these teams think they are 1 piece away to go far in the playoffs?

Cleveland, Atlanta, LAC, Memphis and OKC. They need that backup PG for this coming playoff season. 3rd filter is who has the assets to satisfy us?

Cleveland have squat this draft.
Atlanta has late 1st rounder(#20) and the first pick in the 2nd round and the #50 pick.
Clippers have squat this draft.
Memphis have squat this draft.
OKC has a mid 1st rounder(#18) and 2 2nd rounders #48 and #53

I would target Atlanta and OKC. Would love to have a 1st rounder but that might be too high. I would be happy with the 1st pick in the 2nd round from Atlanta.

The first pick of the second round is probably more valuable than the last pick of the first round... so yeah I'd be okay with that and I think the top of the second round is essentially a late first in most cases too

smackeddog wrote:He didn't just delete the knicks stuff, he deleted everything - someone on really said he has done this sort of thing a few times before, where he just deletes all his social media and starts afresh.

If we do trade him, remember we don't have his bird rights or early bird rights so that reduces what you'll get back. Likely we get a second rounder or two

Since we have no bird rights resigning him doesnt matter. We could always bring him back.

Sambakick wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Sambakick wrote:
So what if a team has squat this draft. Draft picks are fine any year. If we can get 2 2nd rounders for Jennings in the year 3000 we should do it on principle.

My apologies. I was not clear. The reason I want picks this year is so that we can use it to trade up into the draft if we don't have a high enough pick to get 1 of the top PGs. We already have 2 2nd rounders. If we have the 10th pick then we can use that and 1 or 2 2nd rounders this draft to move up to the 4th or 5th pick. A future 2nd rounder is not as enticing for the other teams IMHO.

Oh.

If we pick 10th we can not really use 2nd round picks to move up to like 5th. 2nd rounders don't make teams swap Top 5 picks IMO. It would take a mid #1 pick to move up that many spots.

But i don't think that we end up 10th. I really think we have a great shot at 4th.

We have 23 wins.

If we can slip beneath these teams we are tied with or 1-2 games above, will finish with the 4th worst record and pick anywhere 1-7 in the draft:

23 win Portland
23 win New Orleans
22 win Dallas
22 win Minnesota
21 win Philadelphia
21 win Orlando

This should be the plan.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gvljgyf

My guess. But -- a complete longshot.