nixluva wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Rose used to be part of a great Bulls defensive team as did Noah
Think we should give Noah n Rose a chance with new defensive coaching staff around Horny.

Rose's man D sucks for sure
But so does KP's.
Melo's.
Lee's.

No one stays infront or tight with their man.

I believe coaching defensively is a major problem

Wow, I think your the first person I've encountered who wants to keep Rose! Why?!?!?

We need an attacking point guard and some continuity
I want one of BJ or Rose back preferably BJ. Will be cheaper and plays more D. However much depends on free agency and draft and Melo trade. Who will be the starting point? If we draft a PG in the lottery it could be him and then BJ is enough. If we don't draft or sign a really good young PG talent we need a veteran to give us 28-30 minutes a game. I keep BJ because he should be cheaper and tries harder on D. I'd keep Rose if he comes cheaper than 20$M and is on a 3 year deal. All this is dependent on what are other options are. We don't want to be a 65 loss team next year. KP and Willy need a point guard that can attack a defense and push the ball.

At this point Rose has totally lost me. I was giving him a full clean slate and he had moments where you thought "yeah this could work" and then he's totally fallen off and as his effort level slipped and his selfishness increased it just made it impossible to support him.

I also think BJ at least tries hard and at least looks to set up his teammates. He's not a very good player but JESUS in comparison to Rose who has so much talent STILL, the level of effort and just plain "Giving and Damn" is so much better from BJ. Rose is his own worst enemy. There's no excuse for his poor effort level and selfish style at all. I don't want a guy that you have to crack the whip on just to do what he should WANT to do!!!

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Rose used to be part of a great Bulls defensive team as did Noah
Think we should give Noah n Rose a chance with new defensive coaching staff around Horny.

Rose's man D sucks for sure
But so does KP's.
Melo's.
Lee's.

No one stays infront or tight with their man.

I believe coaching defensively is a major problem

Wow, I think your the first person I've encountered who wants to keep Rose! Why?!?!?

We need an attacking point guard and some continuity
I want one of BJ or Rose back preferably BJ. Will be cheaper and plays more D. However much depends on free agency and draft and Melo trade. Who will be the starting point? If we draft a PG in the lottery it could be him and then BJ is enough. If we don't draft or sign a really good young PG talent we need a veteran to give us 28-30 minutes a game. I keep BJ because he should be cheaper and tries harder on D. I'd keep Rose if he comes cheaper than 20$M and is on a 3 year deal. All this is dependent on what are other options are. We don't want to be a 65 loss team next year. KP and Willy need a point guard that can attack a defense and push the ball.

At this point Rose has totally lost me. I was giving him a full clean slate and he had moments where you thought "yeah this could work" and then he's totally fallen off and as his effort level slipped and his selfishness increased it just made it impossible to support him.

I also think BJ at least tries hard and at least looks to set up his teammates. He's not a very good player but JESUS in comparison to Rose who has so much talent STILL, the level of effort and just plain "Giving and Damn" is so much better from BJ. Rose is his own worst enemy. There's no excuse for his poor effort level and selfish style at all. I don't want a guy that you have to crack the whip on just to do what he should WANT to do!!!

This is where I am at with Rose. He had a tremendous opportunity to get a new contract and spend the rest of his career in NY. I want know part of that now.

The sad thing is he started off looking to sieze the opportunity, then something happened, he threw a tantrum and has sulked ever since. Wonder what it was- contract frustrations, arguments with Hornacek?

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Rose used to be part of a great Bulls defensive team as did Noah
Think we should give Noah n Rose a chance with new defensive coaching staff around Horny.

Rose's man D sucks for sure
But so does KP's.
Melo's.
Lee's.

No one stays infront or tight with their man.

I believe coaching defensively is a major problem

Wow, I think your the first person I've encountered who wants to keep Rose! Why?!?!?

We need an attacking point guard and some continuity
I want one of BJ or Rose back preferably BJ. Will be cheaper and plays more D. However much depends on free agency and draft and Melo trade. Who will be the starting point? If we draft a PG in the lottery it could be him and then BJ is enough. If we don't draft or sign a really good young PG talent we need a veteran to give us 28-30 minutes a game. I keep BJ because he should be cheaper and tries harder on D. I'd keep Rose if he comes cheaper than 20$M and is on a 3 year deal. All this is dependent on what are other options are. We don't want to be a 65 loss team next year. KP and Willy need a point guard that can attack a defense and push the ball.

At this point Rose has totally lost me. I was giving him a full clean slate and he had moments where you thought "yeah this could work" and then he's totally fallen off and as his effort level slipped and his selfishness increased it just made it impossible to support him.

I also think BJ at least tries hard and at least looks to set up his teammates. He's not a very good player but JESUS in comparison to Rose who has so much talent STILL, the level of effort and just plain "Giving and Damn" is so much better from BJ. Rose is his own worst enemy. There's no excuse for his poor effort level and selfish style at all. I don't want a guy that you have to crack the whip on just to do what he should WANT to do!!!

This is where I am at with Rose. He had a tremendous opportunity to get a new contract and spend the rest of his career in NY. I want know part of that now.

The sad thing is he started off looking to sieze the opportunity, then something happened, he threw a tantrum and has sulked ever since. Wonder what it was- contract frustrations, arguments with Hornacek?

Dude asked Horny to get on him for not defending and then when Horny did he acted like a little school girl and ran home!!! Was HOrny not supposed to bench him if he wasn't busting it??? There's no reason for Rose not to be pushing it and playing hard. He's fine physically. He's just decided not to give a flip.

That's the weird thing- he threw his tantrum THEN a week later said hornacek had to get on players more- absolute nerve!

Rose singlehandedly could help improve the team if he tried. BJ has less talent but tries WAY HARDER! We needed a floor leader and Rose hasn't wanted any part of it. BJ has way more leadership qualities than Rose. If he had Rose's talent he'd be an All Star.

nyknickzingis wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Rose used to be part of a great Bulls defensive team as did Noah
Think we should give Noah n Rose a chance with new defensive coaching staff around Horny.

Rose's man D sucks for sure
But so does KP's.
Melo's.
Lee's.

No one stays infront or tight with their man.

I believe coaching defensively is a major problem

Wow, I think your the first person I've encountered who wants to keep Rose! Why?!?!?

We need an attacking point guard and some continuity
I want one of BJ or Rose back preferably BJ. Will be cheaper and plays more D. However much depends on free agency and draft and Melo trade. Who will be the starting point? If we draft a PG in the lottery it could be him and then BJ is enough. If we don't draft or sign a really good young PG talent we need a veteran to give us 28-30 minutes a game. I keep BJ because he should be cheaper and tries harder on D. I'd keep Rose if he comes cheaper than 20$M and is on a 3 year deal. All this is dependent on what are other options are. We don't want to be a 65 loss team next year. KP and Willy need a point guard that can attack a defense and push the ball.

I wouldn't expect us to not be a 65 loss team next year as of now. It sure sounds like the main plan for next year will be rebuilding which means letting Rose walk if we can't trade him by the deadline and trading Melo in the off season if we can't trade him by the deadline so with those two gone and with no real possibilities of any bigger name players wanting to come to this mess would mean the rebuild is on and we will be a team of international players who haven't played in the NBA very long, the young guys we have now, whoever we draft in this draft and a couple of vets who aren't the type of players that can lead a team in C.Lee, KOQ, L.Thomas and J.Noah. I don't see J.Holiday and maybe not even B.Jennings wanting to re-sign with us, maybe Jennings will but not Holiday. I'm not expecting much from the Knicks next year but a rebuild is most likely the best way to go with this team so i'll be alright with it especially if the draft goes in a good direction for us and we can get a really good young player to grow with KP and Billy.

knicks1248 wrote:When you have 2 top flight scorers on the roster, the rest of the roster should be made up of all defensive players..

We were 24 games over .500 with melo prior to Phil, 76 games under since Phil arrived. We had ever contract off the books in 2 yrs the day Phil was hired.

Rose is who he is, if Phil signed this guy to be a floor general and leader, what does that tell you about the guy making the moves..

He actually did try to add defensive players!!! WTF are Noah, Lee, KOQ, Holiday etc? The problem is Melo n Rose are SO BAD that you can't compensate! Plus neither Melo nor Rose lead or set the example!

dwiley20 wrote:so a great defensive team in the Bulls all of a sudden Noah and Rose is the problem on Defense..Lmao comical....Get rid of melo and alot of problems would be solved

The Bulls played good defense because they had Thibs and good defensive players around Rose. J.Noah, J.Butler, L.Deng, C.Boozer, R.Brewer, K.Thomas, T.Gibson are all guys that played good defense which will hide one or two players' bad defense.

nixluva wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Rose used to be part of a great Bulls defensive team as did Noah
Think we should give Noah n Rose a chance with new defensive coaching staff around Horny.

Rose's man D sucks for sure
But so does KP's.
Melo's.
Lee's.

No one stays infront or tight with their man.

I believe coaching defensively is a major problem

I can't believe that Rose and Lee would forget what they learned about how to defend!!!
If we added Tony Allen I would expect him to defend the way he always has. I blame the players more than the coach in this instance.

Just watching Rose you can see in his body language the lack of effort. I watched Darren Collison help the Kings win and he was giving everything he had to try to slow down Dennis Schroder! The difference in effort level was massive!!! This is simply Rose not giving a flip!

I think KP does need more coaching help. He has a lot he needs to learn on top of getting stronger but also he actually does give more effort than guys like Rose or Melo! KP is statistically a far better defender than any of them and I think when he's on the floor with the younger guys they collectively defend at a higher level.

When it comes to Rose we all knew what to expect from Rose 2 previous seasons in Chicago .. Rose hasnt given any more or less ....
Rambis was a BUST joke head coach on Lakers, Wolves, and Kings .. how can someone have any high expectation for Rambis as a coach.

Great example adding Tony Allen .. Tony Allen would be sitting a long side Noah on the bench if he were a Knick. The same as Metta World Peace did when he signed on as a Knick .. For reason of the Knicks head-coach and Melo calling all the shots on the court. When the head coach refuse to preach defense defense defense, plus the captain leadership player Melo never put any effort on defense nor does Melo run in transition on offense or defense ....

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:When you have 2 top flight scorers on the roster, the rest of the roster should be made up of all defensive players..

We were 24 games over .500 with melo prior to Phil, 76 games under since Phil arrived. We had ever contract off the books in 2 yrs the day Phil was hired.

Rose is who he is, if Phil signed this guy to be a floor general and leader, what does that tell you about the guy making the moves..

He actually did try to add defensive players!!! WTF are Noah, Lee, KOQ, Holiday etc? The problem is Melo n Rose are SO BAD that you can't compensate! Plus neither Melo nor Rose lead or set the example!

The fact that he thought those guys would be different than they had been their entire careers is not very smart thinking..No different than trying to turn a HOE in a house wife.

Nix your really got to stop blaming Rose and Melo for everything wrong with the knicks, and asked yourself, how are those 2 even on the roster..You gambled on rose, that's turning out bad, gamble on melo, that's not working, gamble on Noah, that has little to no impact. All thses calculated steps to produce a winning product has failed badly..

Phil, mills, and Houston have no experience building a team from scratch, they have fail what looks to be 3 straight season, and your basically saying, no prob, just keep trying no matter how many times you fail, When do you say enough is enough..