Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Most writers are saying they think melo stays with Knicks. The only exception seems to be Hahn who, on his radio show, seems strangely confident that a deal could happen. He said there was no way at all of a Cavs deal (Owners don't want to take on more money because of their luxury tax bill), however seems to think theres a good chance of Clips deal. Also Berman said twice in his article today that Clips are Melo's preferred (i.e. only acceptable) destination.

So looks like its the trash Clips deal or nothing. Not very exciting at all. And if we get Rivers, it makes zero sense to get Rubio, so there goes that too.

Rivers is a combo guard and a 6th man. Why would it make zero sense to get he and Rubio? I actually think Rivers' ability to shoot and play a little off the ball would compliment Rubio well.

Yeah Rubio and Rivers wouldn't be a bad fit together at all.

My issue is that you've got over $20mil locked up in them AND a problem with minutes if we draft a PG.

smackeddog wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Most writers are saying they think melo stays with Knicks. The only exception seems to be Hahn who, on his radio show, seems strangely confident that a deal could happen. He said there was no way at all of a Cavs deal (Owners don't want to take on more money because of their luxury tax bill), however seems to think theres a good chance of Clips deal. Also Berman said twice in his article today that Clips are Melo's preferred (i.e. only acceptable) destination.

So looks like its the trash Clips deal or nothing. Not very exciting at all. And if we get Rivers, it makes zero sense to get Rubio, so there goes that too.

Rivers is a combo guard and a 6th man. Why would it make zero sense to get he and Rubio? I actually think Rivers' ability to shoot and play a little off the ball would compliment Rubio well.

Yeah Rubio and Rivers wouldn't be a bad fit together at all.

My issue is that you've got over $20mil locked up in them AND a problem with minutes if we draft a PG.

...presuming we keep Courtney Lee, we'd have a minutes problem....

It's more likely the Knicks move smaller pieces for picks now and then try to move Melo in the offseason when it's more clear the Knicks are taking.

Vmart wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Vmart wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I go back and forth with Melo. As I said before, the optics of pushing a "good soldier" out isn't good from a PR perspective. Not many guys wanted to come to NY and accept the challenge but Melo did, which I respect him emmensely for. That alone should give him some say on how he should end his career with us.

Also, it is not like Melo is hurting our underlying plans to build around KP. We are still God-awful with him and are in position and on pace to grab a pick in the top 5 of this draft. If things shake-out favorably, maybe we get the 2nd pillar to build our franchise with and could make a couple playoff runs with him, Melo and KP.

But the optimal route is to still move Melo and jumpstart the rebuild/retooling process. Our ultimate success lies several years into the future and keeping Melo doesn't further the process to get to that point. If Phil isn't a couple idiot, I don't see how it'd be hard to move Melo and Courtney Lee to LAC for JJ Redick (who we'd move to a playoff contender for a 1st), Austin Rivers, their 2021 and 2023 first round picks; then find a third team to take Jamal Crawford. The assets won't mature until well in the future but there is no need to have them any sooner, since we should tank a season more or two to maximize our rebuild potential.

P.S., I'm still intrigued by Nikola Mirotic and think he'd be a great fit playing with KP or backing him up. If the Bulls out him on the market, I'd gladly swap Midngas Kuzminskas out for him.

"Good soldier" where is he? Melo is the worst soldier in the battalion. The man doesn't know the concept of team ball.

He has been the figurehead of the franchise and has behaved himself respectably in face of public scrutiny aimed at him as well as the franchise. Look at the difference between a DeMarcus Cousins and him. He easily could've been a DeMarcus Cousins.

You see that but I see a passive aggressive person. Who gets whatever he wants. I see a player who doesn't want to conform his game to the coaches. Which eventually leads to the dismissal of coaches. I see a content player not at all about winning. The way he has handled himself. Phil has to do what he is doing to get this guy to realize his window is closing and he should want to go to another team and win.

I blame Phil too for giving him a NTC his arrogance got the best of him, probably thought he could change Melo but he is who he is. There is no changing him. The guy wants to hang around NY for all the wrong reasons his brand and winning has nothing to do with it.

I just see a guy using the Knicks for his brand.

Didn't Melo say that he was waiting for Phil to have the discussion with him that the team is going in a different direction? Wouldn't Phil have those conversations with Melo's agent and we don't know if those conversations took place. I agree whit what you said. The team does well when we play team ball then everything breaks down when Melo starts calling for the ball every time down the floor. The real value in any Melo trade is having him gone.

Vmart wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Vmart wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I go back and forth with Melo. As I said before, the optics of pushing a "good soldier" out isn't good from a PR perspective. Not many guys wanted to come to NY and accept the challenge but Melo did, which I respect him emmensely for. That alone should give him some say on how he should end his career with us.

Also, it is not like Melo is hurting our underlying plans to build around KP. We are still God-awful with him and are in position and on pace to grab a pick in the top 5 of this draft. If things shake-out favorably, maybe we get the 2nd pillar to build our franchise with and could make a couple playoff runs with him, Melo and KP.

But the optimal route is to still move Melo and jumpstart the rebuild/retooling process. Our ultimate success lies several years into the future and keeping Melo doesn't further the process to get to that point. If Phil isn't a couple idiot, I don't see how it'd be hard to move Melo and Courtney Lee to LAC for JJ Redick (who we'd move to a playoff contender for a 1st), Austin Rivers, their 2021 and 2023 first round picks; then find a third team to take Jamal Crawford. The assets won't mature until well in the future but there is no need to have them any sooner, since we should tank a season more or two to maximize our rebuild potential.

P.S., I'm still intrigued by Nikola Mirotic and think he'd be a great fit playing with KP or backing him up. If the Bulls out him on the market, I'd gladly swap Midngas Kuzminskas out for him.

"Good soldier" where is he? Melo is the worst soldier in the battalion. The man doesn't know the concept of team ball.

He has been the figurehead of the franchise and has behaved himself respectably in face of public scrutiny aimed at him as well as the franchise. Look at the difference between a DeMarcus Cousins and him. He easily could've been a DeMarcus Cousins.

You see that but I see a passive aggressive person. Who gets whatever he wants. I see a player who doesn't want to conform his game to the coaches. Which eventually leads to the dismissal of coaches. I see a content player not at all about winning. The way he has handled himself. Phil has to do what he is doing to get this guy to realize his window is closing and he should want to go to another team and win.

I blame Phil too for giving him a NTC his arrogance got the best of him, probably thought he could change Melo but he is who he is. There is no changing him. The guy wants to hang around NY for all the wrong reasons his brand and winning has nothing to do with it.

I just see a guy using the Knicks for his brand.

You can attribute Melo's intentions to whatever you like but the fact is that he's still represented the Knicks well on and off the court. What I think is harder for you to do is try to pin the Knicks failures on him. Did Melo force the Knicks to use their amnesty on anyone else but Amare Stoudemire? Did Melo force the Knicks to have Raymond Felton as the best starting PG we've had during his tenure? Did Melo force the Knicks into trading away assets for cents on the dollar (e.g. Tyson Chandler)? Did Melo force the Knicks to run an antiquated system? Did Melo force the Knicks to surround him with "starters" that couldn't start for most teams in the league? Melo's a talented guy that has won on every level of basketball. The problem has largely not been him; the problem has been the Knicks which had 10 seasons of evidence to confirm as much before he got here or was even drafted.

It's interesting how the only people that seem to criticize Melo are Knick fans. NBA coaches certainly feel differently....they just finished voting Melo into the all-star game for the umpteenth year.

Rookie wrote:

Vmart wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Vmart wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I go back and forth with Melo. As I said before, the optics of pushing a "good soldier" out isn't good from a PR perspective. Not many guys wanted to come to NY and accept the challenge but Melo did, which I respect him emmensely for. That alone should give him some say on how he should end his career with us.

Also, it is not like Melo is hurting our underlying plans to build around KP. We are still God-awful with him and are in position and on pace to grab a pick in the top 5 of this draft. If things shake-out favorably, maybe we get the 2nd pillar to build our franchise with and could make a couple playoff runs with him, Melo and KP.

But the optimal route is to still move Melo and jumpstart the rebuild/retooling process. Our ultimate success lies several years into the future and keeping Melo doesn't further the process to get to that point. If Phil isn't a couple idiot, I don't see how it'd be hard to move Melo and Courtney Lee to LAC for JJ Redick (who we'd move to a playoff contender for a 1st), Austin Rivers, their 2021 and 2023 first round picks; then find a third team to take Jamal Crawford. The assets won't mature until well in the future but there is no need to have them any sooner, since we should tank a season more or two to maximize our rebuild potential.

P.S., I'm still intrigued by Nikola Mirotic and think he'd be a great fit playing with KP or backing him up. If the Bulls out him on the market, I'd gladly swap Midngas Kuzminskas out for him.

"Good soldier" where is he? Melo is the worst soldier in the battalion. The man doesn't know the concept of team ball.

He has been the figurehead of the franchise and has behaved himself respectably in face of public scrutiny aimed at him as well as the franchise. Look at the difference between a DeMarcus Cousins and him. He easily could've been a DeMarcus Cousins.

You see that but I see a passive aggressive person. Who gets whatever he wants. I see a player who doesn't want to conform his game to the coaches. Which eventually leads to the dismissal of coaches. I see a content player not at all about winning. The way he has handled himself. Phil has to do what he is doing to get this guy to realize his window is closing and he should want to go to another team and win.

I blame Phil too for giving him a NTC his arrogance got the best of him, probably thought he could change Melo but he is who he is. There is no changing him. The guy wants to hang around NY for all the wrong reasons his brand and winning has nothing to do with it.

I just see a guy using the Knicks for his brand.

Didn't Melo say that he was waiting for Phil to have the discussion with him that the team is going in a different direction? Wouldn't Phil have those conversations with Melo's agent and we don't know if those conversations took place. I agree whit what you said. The team does well when we play team ball then everything breaks down when Melo starts calling for the ball every time down the floor. The real value in any Melo trade is having him gone.

y2zipper wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

y2zipper wrote:The return on any Melo trade is that Melo isn't here anymore. I'd take the Clippers deal if I could get an unprotected first or two with the Rivers package. Even if it's really far down the road.

It's more likely the Knicks move smaller pieces for picks now and then try to move Melo in the offseason when it's more clear the Knicks are taking.

I don't think we get picks. I think it would be Rivers, Crawford (who you pray you can move to the Sixers or Pelicans or someone without having to give up anything) and (here's where I refuse, REFUSE to take on Wes Johnson's multi year deal), Pierce (who I would only release after the playoff roster expiry date, ha ha ha!) and Bryce.

Yeah it doesn't make sense to do it right now if we're talking about multi-year deals and no picks coming back in return. Personally I don't need a ton of value to move Melo because most of that comes from Melo not being here to stop the ball, but I'd want to bring back an asset or two.

The gains of doing a deal now is that there won't be a better deal in the offseason because what will have changed? Plus melo will have one less playoffs in him.

We gain a fresh start and can have some direction again (tank and development). Hornacek can actually start to implement his system properly. Melo gets to use his talents in the playoffs rather than waste them here.

Welpee wrote:Melo is not getting traded.

KO'Q, Lee, Rose, Jennings are the most likely to be traded in that order (in my opinion). I really, really think the Knicks should aggressively shop O'Quinn and see if he can be flipped for a mid-low 1st round pick. Lee has a lot of value to a contending team.

Of course we all would love to dump Noah but that ain't happening without taking back an even worse contract and player.

Yep - I agree with this. I think it's easier to move Jennings than Rose but otherwise agree with your rankings.

I think chances are relatively low that they move anyone, to be honest.

crzymdups wrote:

Welpee wrote:Melo is not getting traded.

KO'Q, Lee, Rose, Jennings are the most likely to be traded in that order (in my opinion). I really, really think the Knicks should aggressively shop O'Quinn and see if he can be flipped for a mid-low 1st round pick. Lee has a lot of value to a contending team.

Of course we all would love to dump Noah but that ain't happening without taking back an even worse contract and player.

Yep - I agree with this. I think it's easier to move Jennings than Rose but otherwise agree with your rankings.

I think chances are relatively low that they move anyone, to be honest.

The Knicks need to rebuild
Rebuilding and Melo don't go in the same sentence
He's 33 in decline and has a high usage low assist rate while holding on to the ball long. Not good match for a rebuilding team.

I guess it's more important for some to see Melo play and get stats than be in a better position long term.

As for shine for KP, the lol on that is huge. KP gets hype regardless (too much so in my opinion). He's ranked 6th on the young players on the rose list. He just won a guard skill challenge at all star weekend. Melo actually helps protect KP from the bad side of NY which is they will blame you as the best player if your team loses.

At first trading Melo will actually hurt KPs hype and all that. I could care less. What I care about is having a team of 4-5 young in prime starters who can grow together and win basketball games. KP can be one of those players. It's a guard league right now if Knicks are going to be good it will not be with KP alone. This team neeeds a great guard and he will take shine/attention from KP. So what? Get god players in their prime that play D. That's the goal.