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Why doesn't Brand make the playoffs?
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fishmike
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8/12/2004  1:35 PM
"TT, Sweetney & a future 1st round pick for Brand?"

Thats tough... my gut reaction is a resounding yes, but based on our current personel I'm not sure its the right move for us, based on TT has a lot to prove (plus I just like him) and Sweetney's upside. Brand is awesome.. he really is. If I could get some kind of handshake deal where I am dealing KT for any kind of athletic 3 than its a no brainer to me. Problem is thats easier said then done. Right now I dont make that trade because it creates a log jam and you lose your best prospect. With next year as his walk year and TT having plenty to prove (plus it appears he's done a lot of work in the offseason) I dont see why we need to make this trade now, vs. a year from now when we know more about Sweetney and TT has more value as he's in his walk year.

So despite LOVING Brand's game I would have to pass for now.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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TMS
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8/12/2004  3:34 PM
fair enough, but whether you could trade KT or not doesn't make a difference to me in that scenario...Penny & Ariza can handle the SF position if we have a consistent low post scoring threat like Brand on the team...KT could either back him up & be happy with it, or he can be traded for whatever you could get for him...i'd be fine w/simply getting a 1st round pick & Ruben Patterson for KT too.

C - Dampier or Nazr / Baker
PF - Brand / JYD
SF - Penny / Patterson / Shandon
SG - Houston / Ariza
PG - Marbury / Crawford / Moochie
IR - Barrett

that would be fine by me...i think having a consistent star caliber low post scoring option will be a much bigger impact on this team than having an improved Tim Thomas & Mike Sweetney.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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8/12/2004  3:39 PM
but thats exactly what Sweetney was in school. Also TT said he's been working exlusively on his post play because thats what Lenny asked him to do this summer. Its also the reason he started the boxing, to build the upper body strength (like Kobe did) so he was more comfortable with more contact and physical play.

I want to see what the results are. If TT comes in even stronger with his build he has the potential to simply abuse opposing 3's in the post. He already does it with the midrange game... lets see him work in the paint more.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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8/12/2004  3:46 PM
hey, if Sweets develops into the dominant low post monster he was in college, all power to him...but i would rather have the sure thing...no matter how good Sweetney gets, i doubt he'll ever reach the level of Brand in all phases of his game...we'll see...i am perfectly fine w/simply allowing Sweetney a chance to show what he can do, but if a trade like this were on the table, i'd have a hard time turning it down...Brand is simply in a different class than either Tim Thomas or Mike Sweetney in my eyes.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Rich
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8/12/2004  4:08 PM
Posted by fishmike:

can someone say KT and Nazr for Wilcox?

I wish.
fishmike
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8/12/2004  4:21 PM
"Brand is simply in a different class than either Tim Thomas or Mike Sweetney in my eyes."

Individually, no question... but together its a question. TT does things Penny, or Ariza cant sniff, and we saw some impressive performances from him last year. Its a tough question, and to be honest I think we are both right. How do you turn down that deal when your getting Brand? A guy that can anchor your frontcourt for the next 8-10 years. Yet if Sweetney has a breakout year and TT is giving you a slightly improved 15 and say 6.5 and playing big down the stretch (as he does) your losing flexibility.

Tough one... I would trust Isiah either way.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Ray15
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8/12/2004  5:30 PM
I would do that deal in a heartbeat and the Clipps may consider it at the deadline if Wilcox is breaking out and they aren't in the playoff race.

Brand is not only one of the best post scorers in the game but he is a rebounding machine and plays incredible defense. The guy blocks shots. He gives us everything this team lacks right now. Interior defense, post offense, toughness. He is a solid leader and would be so perfect to complement Marbury, Crawford, and Houston because all of those guys can play the transition game as well as the half court offense.

I would have JYD split time at the 3 with Penny. Ariza could get some time as well as Houston, if healthy, in that position. I just can't even imagine a frontline of JYD, Brand, and KT for spurts. We would be so solid defensively up front and we would get every rebound.

Even if Sweetney develops into a 17 / 10 guy like we all think he will, he is not the defensive player brand is. Sweets doesn't block shots and gets in too much foul trouble.

I think that trade makes us a legit championship caliber team. I would even throw in Ariza along with the first rounder to get it done. Brand is the guy that brings us to the next level.
Defense and Toughness
fishmike
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8/12/2004  8:02 PM
did anyone block more shots in Div 1 than Sweetney? If you think Sweetney doesnt have bigtime shotblocking potential you didnt watch him in school. Taller player dont shoot over him because of his great wingspan, and bigger players couldnt back him down because he's wide and powerfull.

He probably wont be the shotblocker he was in school but he will still swat balls.

Your probably right about Brand... I'm just thinking with the heart and not the head. I do think thats alot to give up however.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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8/12/2004  9:43 PM
Posted by fishmike:

did anyone block more shots in Div 1 than Sweetney? If you think Sweetney doesnt have bigtime shotblocking potential you didnt watch him in school. Taller player dont shoot over him because of his great wingspan, and bigger players couldnt back him down because he's wide and powerfull.

He probably wont be the shotblocker he was in school but he will still swat balls.

Your probably right about Brand... I'm just thinking with the heart and not the head. I do think thats alot to give up however.
I don't think Sweetney is quick enough to develop into the shot-blocker that Elton Brand is. I'd love to be wrong though.

I love the fact that Brand is only 6'8" and gets more blocks than most 7 footers. He plays with a ton of heart. You know he'd LOVE to come back home to NY too!
timmyTtop
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8/12/2004  10:01 PM
do you think clippers would accept tim thomas and nazr for brand? the numbers work out. and they get 2 expiring contracts.
timmyTtop
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8/12/2004  10:04 PM
nevermind it doesnt work out... how about brand for tim thomas and a future 1st rounder?
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Why doesn't Brand make the playoffs?
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