Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:We should only pay max for a player who is actually worth more than that

Paying max to attract merely a very good player is short sighted

I like Jrue as a bridge player but only on a reasonable deal. Not the guy to mortgage the rebuild on

how would that mortgage the future? Assuming we let Rose go who do we have at guard? If we are lucky enough to draft one of the great PG prospects coming out than signing Holiday for 4 years makes perfect sense from the time line. Draft a PG, have him backup Jru, if he blossoms quickly he can play the 6th man role as well and after 4 years he's the starter.

Its an overpay, but based on who is out there and how best to move the team forward it strikes me as a pretty good fit

We are more than one pg away. We need more players especially ones who play defense w passion

Putting all ur eggs in one basket is rarely wise

Jrue is good but w all the issues not worth max. Very first injury we'll be harping same ol Knicks etc

If he wants to play in NYC on a good deal where we can continue to build I'll come down from Boston to welcome him myself

If not I'd prefer we find our own and if we need a short term bridge keep Jennings who if nothing else relishes the role of setting up teammates

Unless your team is such an amazing destination you always pay in FA. I mean literally look at every FA signed last offseason and tell me which one was really good value? It really just comes down to does that player help your team?

We really need help on the perimeter. Jru and resigning Justin certainly helps, along with (hopefully) drafting a blue chip prospect on the wing.

BRIGGS wrote:I'd give him an offer 4 years 100mm. 25 mm per for 4
We just spent 30 mm per for Noah and Lee. We pay Rose over 20 mm. Paying Holiday 25 mm is reasonable for a guy who when he is healthy is an upper tier pg.

Because we have out other terrible contacts means it's ok to give another one to Holiday?

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:We should only pay max for a player who is actually worth more than that

Paying max to attract merely a very good player is short sighted

I like Jrue as a bridge player but only on a reasonable deal. Not the guy to mortgage the rebuild on

how would that mortgage the future? Assuming we let Rose go who do we have at guard? If we are lucky enough to draft one of the great PG prospects coming out than signing Holiday for 4 years makes perfect sense from the time line. Draft a PG, have him backup Jru, if he blossoms quickly he can play the 6th man role as well and after 4 years he's the starter.

Its an overpay, but based on who is out there and how best to move the team forward it strikes me as a pretty good fit

We are more than one pg away. We need more players especially ones who play defense w passion

Putting all ur eggs in one basket is rarely wise

Jrue is good but w all the issues not worth max. Very first injury we'll be harping same ol Knicks etc

If he wants to play in NYC on a good deal where we can continue to build I'll come down from Boston to welcome him myself

If not I'd prefer we find our own and if we need a short term bridge keep Jennings who if nothing else relishes the role of setting up teammates

I guess I dont see how Jru is putting all the eggs in one basket. Unless the argument is to save the cap space for a star or true max player, but who is that player? When have we been able to get that player?

Unless your team is such an amazing destination you always pay in FA. I mean literally look at every FA signed last offseason and tell me which one was really good value? It really just comes down to does that player help your team?

We really need help on the perimeter. Jru and resigning Justin certainly helps, along with (hopefully) drafting a blue chip prospect on the wing.

we're too far away from being good.

Keep the cap space open so in 2-3 years, then maybe we're good enough and there is a better player to sign.

Max someone out this summer and we're basically stuck with this roster for the next 2-3 years.

Derrick Rose
Stephen Curry
Jrue Holiday
Deron Williams
Jeff Teague
George Hill
Jose Calderon
Shaun Livingston
Darren Collison
Brandon Jennings
Patrick Mills
Trey Burke
Aaron Brooks
Michael Carter-Williams
Shelvin Mack
Tyler Ennis
Raymond Felton
Beno Udrih
Ty Lawson
Brian Roberts
Bobby Brown

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:We should only pay max for a player who is actually worth more than that

Paying max to attract merely a very good player is short sighted

I like Jrue as a bridge player but only on a reasonable deal. Not the guy to mortgage the rebuild on

how would that mortgage the future? Assuming we let Rose go who do we have at guard? If we are lucky enough to draft one of the great PG prospects coming out than signing Holiday for 4 years makes perfect sense from the time line. Draft a PG, have him backup Jru, if he blossoms quickly he can play the 6th man role as well and after 4 years he's the starter.

Its an overpay, but based on who is out there and how best to move the team forward it strikes me as a pretty good fit

We are more than one pg away. We need more players especially ones who play defense w passion

Putting all ur eggs in one basket is rarely wise

Jrue is good but w all the issues not worth max. Very first injury we'll be harping same ol Knicks etc

If he wants to play in NYC on a good deal where we can continue to build I'll come down from Boston to welcome him myself

If not I'd prefer we find our own and if we need a short term bridge keep Jennings who if nothing else relishes the role of setting up teammates

I guess I dont see how Jru is putting all the eggs in one basket. Unless the argument is to save the cap space for a star or true max player, but who is that player? When have we been able to get that player?

Unless your team is such an amazing destination you always pay in FA. I mean literally look at every FA signed last offseason and tell me which one was really good value? It really just comes down to does that player help your team?

We really need help on the perimeter. Jru and resigning Justin certainly helps, along with (hopefully) drafting a blue chip prospect on the wing.

no not another max player, but we do need pieces. I'd have to check the FA list to make sure I'm not fully hallucinating but I think guys like Crowder will be available -- because the Celts will go after Hayward and Crowder is already pissed about that (during the celts jazz games the celts fans were cheering Hayward). Would like guys who will play D with a tenacity

If you want to add a "piece" via FA you have to be prepped to spend and spend healthy. If you want to add warm bodies like Afflalo or Jason Smith we can do that, but I dont see the point.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:We should only pay max for a player who is actually worth more than that

Paying max to attract merely a very good player is short sighted

I like Jrue as a bridge player but only on a reasonable deal. Not the guy to mortgage the rebuild on

how would that mortgage the future? Assuming we let Rose go who do we have at guard? If we are lucky enough to draft one of the great PG prospects coming out than signing Holiday for 4 years makes perfect sense from the time line. Draft a PG, have him backup Jru, if he blossoms quickly he can play the 6th man role as well and after 4 years he's the starter.

Its an overpay, but based on who is out there and how best to move the team forward it strikes me as a pretty good fit

We are more than one pg away. We need more players especially ones who play defense w passion

Putting all ur eggs in one basket is rarely wise

Jrue is good but w all the issues not worth max. Very first injury we'll be harping same ol Knicks etc

If he wants to play in NYC on a good deal where we can continue to build I'll come down from Boston to welcome him myself

If not I'd prefer we find our own and if we need a short term bridge keep Jennings who if nothing else relishes the role of setting up teammates

I guess I dont see how Jru is putting all the eggs in one basket. Unless the argument is to save the cap space for a star or true max player, but who is that player? When have we been able to get that player?

Unless your team is such an amazing destination you always pay in FA. I mean literally look at every FA signed last offseason and tell me which one was really good value? It really just comes down to does that player help your team?

We really need help on the perimeter. Jru and resigning Justin certainly helps, along with (hopefully) drafting a blue chip prospect on the wing.

we're too far away from being good.

Keep the cap space open so in 2-3 years, then maybe we're good enough and there is a better player to sign.

Max someone out this summer and we're basically stuck with this roster for the next 2-3 years.

Exactly, and the merry-go-round keeps on turning, same ole failed non-plan. Let's break out of that mould.

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:We should only pay max for a player who is actually worth more than that

Paying max to attract merely a very good player is short sighted

I like Jrue as a bridge player but only on a reasonable deal. Not the guy to mortgage the rebuild on

how would that mortgage the future? Assuming we let Rose go who do we have at guard? If we are lucky enough to draft one of the great PG prospects coming out than signing Holiday for 4 years makes perfect sense from the time line. Draft a PG, have him backup Jru, if he blossoms quickly he can play the 6th man role as well and after 4 years he's the starter.

Its an overpay, but based on who is out there and how best to move the team forward it strikes me as a pretty good fit

We are more than one pg away. We need more players especially ones who play defense w passion

Putting all ur eggs in one basket is rarely wise

Jrue is good but w all the issues not worth max. Very first injury we'll be harping same ol Knicks etc

If he wants to play in NYC on a good deal where we can continue to build I'll come down from Boston to welcome him myself

If not I'd prefer we find our own and if we need a short term bridge keep Jennings who if nothing else relishes the role of setting up teammates

I guess I dont see how Jru is putting all the eggs in one basket. Unless the argument is to save the cap space for a star or true max player, but who is that player? When have we been able to get that player?

Unless your team is such an amazing destination you always pay in FA. I mean literally look at every FA signed last offseason and tell me which one was really good value? It really just comes down to does that player help your team?

We really need help on the perimeter. Jru and resigning Justin certainly helps, along with (hopefully) drafting a blue chip prospect on the wing.

no not another max player, but we do need pieces. I'd have to check the FA list to make sure I'm not fully hallucinating but I think guys like Crowder will be available -- because the Celts will go after Hayward and Crowder is already pissed about that (during the celts jazz games the celts fans were cheering Hayward). Would like guys who will play D with a tenacity

Look at what guys like Shump, Carrol, Evan Turner, Crabbe, Bazemore... etc etc got paid.. we could do this all day. You dont go get those guys for cheap. The market has changed.

If you want to add a "piece" via FA you have to be prepped to spend and spend healthy. If you want to add warm bodies like Afflalo or Jason Smith we can do that, but I dont see the point.

but isn't this the point. we need to re-sign Holiday, Baker too. I think we need a good pg in FA who plays D and passes and who can hold the fort while we develop whatever pg we draft. This could be Holiday or Hill or another. But we also need a defensive forward. So I'm leary of sending big money on the pg and having nothing left over

On a side note: I have heard that Knicks brass believe Ndour can be that defensive forward. From the little I've seen of him he looks to have very quick feet and lift but at the moment is too skinny and weak. All my fingers and toes are crossed that we can actually draft and develop such a player rather than having to buy such

fishmike wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:We should only pay max for a player who is actually worth more than that

Paying max to attract merely a very good player is short sighted

I like Jrue as a bridge player but only on a reasonable deal. Not the guy to mortgage the rebuild on

how would that mortgage the future? Assuming we let Rose go who do we have at guard? If we are lucky enough to draft one of the great PG prospects coming out than signing Holiday for 4 years makes perfect sense from the time line. Draft a PG, have him backup Jru, if he blossoms quickly he can play the 6th man role as well and after 4 years he's the starter.

Its an overpay, but based on who is out there and how best to move the team forward it strikes me as a pretty good fit

We are more than one pg away. We need more players especially ones who play defense w passion

Putting all ur eggs in one basket is rarely wise

Jrue is good but w all the issues not worth max. Very first injury we'll be harping same ol Knicks etc

If he wants to play in NYC on a good deal where we can continue to build I'll come down from Boston to welcome him myself

If not I'd prefer we find our own and if we need a short term bridge keep Jennings who if nothing else relishes the role of setting up teammates

I guess I dont see how Jru is putting all the eggs in one basket. Unless the argument is to save the cap space for a star or true max player, but who is that player? When have we been able to get that player?

Unless your team is such an amazing destination you always pay in FA. I mean literally look at every FA signed last offseason and tell me which one was really good value? It really just comes down to does that player help your team?

We really need help on the perimeter. Jru and resigning Justin certainly helps, along with (hopefully) drafting a blue chip prospect on the wing.

we're too far away from being good.

Keep the cap space open so in 2-3 years, then maybe we're good enough and there is a better player to sign.

Max someone out this summer and we're basically stuck with this roster for the next 2-3 years.

Exactly, and the merry-go-round keeps on turning, same ole failed non-plan. Let's break out of that mould.

How many games do we have to lose by 1 point? But we are too far away from being good? Seems we are actually pretty close if you have been paying attention.

How many of those games that we lost by 1 point were we down 20 in the first quarter?

Good teams don't get down 10-20 points on a regular basis. We have.

We're not good yet. We are several pieces away, and we need some more development of guys like KP.

I also looked at the cap for next year - what I am seeing is it's not going up and could go down.

That is the new CBA, I guess, and I think you will see a slight course correction as far as contracts go.

franco12 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I'd give him an offer 4 years 100mm. 25 mm per for 4
We just spent 30 mm per for Noah and Lee. We pay Rose over 20 mm. Paying Holiday 25 mm is reasonable for a guy who when he is healthy is an upper tier pg.

Agree completely - he'd be my Number 1 target in FA. Unless we are able to get a true stud PG in the draft. Then I'd re-sign Jennings for cheap and try to maintain cap flexibility.

The question is whether Jennings is a good person to mentor young players. He's had kind of a care-free JR Smith-light persona about him in the past. Jrue on the other end has been a model citizem on-and-off the court. I also think that Jrue's style of play is more conducive to winning and has qualities young players ahould emulate. Not so sure that is the case with Brandon though.

do we need to cap out to do that, and win 36 games?

There are plenty of options for vet min type players that can come in and hold down the fort.

But how many of those veteran minimum types can be more than just mentors on the bench? The Andre Millers of the world (aka guys who have solid resumes) may have some wisdom to impart on developing players but their days of contributing meaningful basketball are over. So you can you think of that has some game left, with a resume AND will come here at a discount?

franco12 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

franco12 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I'd give him an offer 4 years 100mm. 25 mm per for 4
We just spent 30 mm per for Noah and Lee. We pay Rose over 20 mm. Paying Holiday 25 mm is reasonable for a guy who when he is healthy is an upper tier pg.

Agree completely - he'd be my Number 1 target in FA. Unless we are able to get a true stud PG in the draft. Then I'd re-sign Jennings for cheap and try to maintain cap flexibility.

The question is whether Jennings is a good person to mentor young players. He's had kind of a care-free JR Smith-light persona about him in the past. Jrue on the other end has been a model citizem on-and-off the court. I also think that Jrue's style of play is more conducive to winning and has qualities young players ahould emulate. Not so sure that is the case with Brandon though.

do we need to cap out to do that, and win 36 games?

There are plenty of options for vet min type players that can come in and hold down the fort.

But how many of those veteran minimum types can be more than just mentors on the bench? The Andre Millers of the world (aka guys who have solid resumes) may have some wisdom to impart on developing players but their days of contributing meaningful basketball are over. So you can you think of that has some game left, with a resume AND will come here at a discount?

Why does everyone want to spend every possible dollar, and cap out? Can't we just keep some financial flexibility in case there is another Wade that leaves his team. I mean, we might have been much better off if we were Lopez, Jennings & Wade vs. Rose, Noah, Lee & Jennings.

I'm not talking about going on a mediocre free agent bonanza. I'm not sure if Jrue Holiday alone would cap us out. If he does, then I'd have to reconsider.

But I do agree with you that last offseason was a collosal mistake and I argued as much as it was unfurling. Gambling on Rose was fine. Giving up assets to gamble on Rose was not. Gambling on Joakim Noah was alright. Gambling on Joakim Noah long-term was not. It seems that regardless of who is in charge, we keep making the same dumb attempts to try and win in the immediate, only to have it blow up in our faces in a spectacular fashion. The sad thing is that we actually had a strong offseason the year before, which had offered a glimmer of hope.

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I'd give him an offer 4 years 100mm. 25 mm per for 4
We just spent 30 mm per for Noah and Lee. We pay Rose over 20 mm. Paying Holiday 25 mm is reasonable for a guy who when he is healthy is an upper tier pg.

Maybe we should look at how much the smart teams are paying players and try to follow that rather than repeating our own mistakes.

The smart teams? I'm guessing the Spurs would top your list of smart teams and they way overpaid for Danny Green.