JamesKPolk wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

We have such few moveable assets that we are back to the days where we are no in any trade discussions because we have nothing to offer.

Sounds bad.

If I'm really considering players we have as players other teams would want I would list Carmelo, O'Quinn, Lee, Kuzminskas, Hernangomez and Justin Holiday as assets

So half the team are assets. This contradicts with your "such few moveable assets" assertion. I'm questioning if you're remembering how bad it was when our assets were Jared Jeffries and Jerome James.

Half the team is not 6 players. And of those players, as I mentioned, only Carmelo has real value.

The other players have value in that the other team won't laugh at us and hang up the phone if we offered them in a trade, not that they are super valuable players.

We could also trade Derrick Rose or Brandon Jennings since they are ending deals and a team in need of PG help may come calling. Jennings has a very easy contract to move. Baker N'Dour and Plumlee cost too little to worry about. The picture you paint is not accurate.

Ndour and Plumlee are scrubs. Baker is a borderline scrub. None of these guys are worthy of a discussion. Same goes for a few others on the roster.

As for Jennings, he can get you a 2nd rounder from a team in need of a backup PG.

Rose makes too much money for anyone to trade for someone of his skill level, even on an ending deal.

I wouldn't trade Rose or Jennings for any longer contracts so that greatly reduces the destinations.

You're getting a little out of control with the negativity! You're calling rookies that barely played scrubs. How would you know after such a small sample size??? We need to keep adding young talent and developing these players.

nixluva wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

We have such few moveable assets that we are back to the days where we are no in any trade discussions because we have nothing to offer.

Sounds bad.

If I'm really considering players we have as players other teams would want I would list Carmelo, O'Quinn, Lee, Kuzminskas, Hernangomez and Justin Holiday as assets

So half the team are assets. This contradicts with your "such few moveable assets" assertion. I'm questioning if you're remembering how bad it was when our assets were Jared Jeffries and Jerome James.

Half the team is not 6 players. And of those players, as I mentioned, only Carmelo has real value.

The other players have value in that the other team won't laugh at us and hang up the phone if we offered them in a trade, not that they are super valuable players.

We could also trade Derrick Rose or Brandon Jennings since they are ending deals and a team in need of PG help may come calling. Jennings has a very easy contract to move. Baker N'Dour and Plumlee cost too little to worry about. The picture you paint is not accurate.

Ndour and Plumlee are scrubs. Baker is a borderline scrub. None of these guys are worthy of a discussion. Same goes for a few others on the roster.

As for Jennings, he can get you a 2nd rounder from a team in need of a backup PG.

Rose makes too much money for anyone to trade for someone of his skill level, even on an ending deal.

I wouldn't trade Rose or Jennings for any longer contracts so that greatly reduces the destinations.

You're getting a little out of control with the negativity! You're calling rookies that barely played scrubs. How would you know after such a small sample size??? We need to keep adding young talent and developing these players.

I think it's pretty obvious when you watch more than 5 minutes of Ndour that he;s not an NBA player and that Plumlee is a third string Amundson-type big at best. Baker could possibly be more of a fringe NBA player.

Don't disagree with adding young talent but we need to start doing that by losing and losing a ton to get a top pick in this deep draft.

fwk00 wrote:The gloom and doom, Phil-Melo-Isiah-Dolan-oh-what-a-lousy-contract- this guy or that guy has, and lets-not-forget-Rambis, are not only hysterical in a bad way but they are equally part of the problem.

As others have pointed out, the Knicks are on the cusp of great things. That said, Melo is not part of that inertia - that ship has sailed. This is not a fault of Melo's - he belongs on a veteran contending team - the Knicks aren't that. Secondly he's been here many years or so and he's getting older while the Knicks are getting younger and faster. It's no longer a good basketball fit.

I'm afraid to speculate on Phil's job status, it will be downhill from here if Phil is shown the door. And that's really what the cynics and haters are all about.

In watching recent games, Hornacek is giving the veterans plenty of rope to redeem or hang themselves. I hate to be accusatory but Melo is not bringing it when its needed. He puts up some numbers to make it look like he cares but his cold spells have a timing to them that result in close losses in uncanny predictability.

Oh yeah, I said GREAT so I must be a homer or blind.

What has to happen as quickly as possible is that Phil needs to (and I think he's on it) heed what Breen, Frazier, Reggie Miller, and others have been observing. The Knicks are better with combinations of youth than not. Personally I have a dread of Melo ball.

I think a smart thing would be to get with Hornacek and recommit to him as a long term coach and ask him who he wants to keep only (not that everyone else will disappear. And ask him who he wants to have if he had his druthers - either a real player or an archetype.

Unsurprisingly, IMO, Porzingis, Hernangomez, Kuz, and Holiday stick no matter what.

One of Noah, O'Quinn, and Plumlee is expendable.

Hang onto Rose unless the trade is right. Something along the lines of Jackson and Leuer for Rose and Thomas works for me.

Cut Sasha if he's not traded as filler.

Everyone else could/should be dealt.

As for Melo trades, I doubt Boston is possible. Hard to imagine a Clippers deal as well.

I could see Dallas maybe doing Matthews and Bogut and their second-rounder for Anthony and Jennings.

Or maybe Portland wants to cut bait, say Melo, N'Dour, and Sasha for Turner, Harkless, and Connaughton

Moving Anthony will not be easy.

The Knicks are a terrible franchise and the laughingstock of the league. What you call "doom and gloom" I call reality.

fwk00 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

fwk00 wrote:The gloom and doom, Phil-Melo-Isiah-Dolan-oh-what-a-lousy-contract- this guy or that guy has, and lets-not-forget-Rambis, are not only hysterical in a bad way but they are equally part of the problem.

As others have pointed out, the Knicks are on the cusp of great things. That said, Melo is not part of that inertia - that ship has sailed. This is not a fault of Melo's - he belongs on a veteran contending team - the Knicks aren't that. Secondly he's been here many years or so and he's getting older while the Knicks are getting younger and faster. It's no longer a good basketball fit.

I'm afraid to speculate on Phil's job status, it will be downhill from here if Phil is shown the door. And that's really what the cynics and haters are all about.

In watching recent games, Hornacek is giving the veterans plenty of rope to redeem or hang themselves. I hate to be accusatory but Melo is not bringing it when its needed. He puts up some numbers to make it look like he cares but his cold spells have a timing to them that result in close losses in uncanny predictability.

Oh yeah, I said GREAT so I must be a homer or blind.

What has to happen as quickly as possible is that Phil needs to (and I think he's on it) heed what Breen, Frazier, Reggie Miller, and others have been observing. The Knicks are better with combinations of youth than not. Personally I have a dread of Melo ball.

I think a smart thing would be to get with Hornacek and recommit to him as a long term coach and ask him who he wants to keep only (not that everyone else will disappear. And ask him who he wants to have if he had his druthers - either a real player or an archetype.

Unsurprisingly, IMO, Porzingis, Hernangomez, Kuz, and Holiday stick no matter what.

One of Noah, O'Quinn, and Plumlee is expendable.

Hang onto Rose unless the trade is right. Something along the lines of Jackson and Leuer for Rose and Thomas works for me.

Cut Sasha if he's not traded as filler.

Everyone else could/should be dealt.

As for Melo trades, I doubt Boston is possible. Hard to imagine a Clippers deal as well.

I could see Dallas maybe doing Matthews and Bogut and their second-rounder for Anthony and Jennings.

Or maybe Portland wants to cut bait, say Melo, N'Dour, and Sasha for Turner, Harkless, and Connaughton

Moving Anthony will not be easy.

The Knicks are a terrible franchise and the laughingstock of the league. What you call "doom and gloom" I call reality.

I call it an embarrassing losing streak that's expected for a team that's just getting their sea legs. Being a Knicks fan isn't for the faint of heart or ego.

The Knicks have been on an 'embarrassing losing streak' since 2001.

Sea legs? This team sucks and is poorly constructed.

Rebuilding with quality young talent is the only way to success. The Knicks have always tried to trade or sign hasbeens and mediocre players to stave off rebuilding and appease a small portion of the fanbase. But the true fans - the ones that have been painfully sitting by watching this all occur - just want to build a team properly like every other team in the NBA.

The media is overstating the situation. Phil still has options to rebuild around KP and Willy. Future is BRIGHT!!! ☀️🌈

JamesKPolk wrote:

nixluva wrote:No matter how much you bash Phil you can't erase the fact that he drafted well with KP and Willy and he preserved our picks so we have something to continue to build this team. I mean Rose and Jennings aren't locked in. So basically he took a flyer on one more group for Melo and it didn't work but he's not stuck.

The media is overstating the situation. Phil still has options to rebuild around KP and Willy. Future is BRIGHT!!! ☀️🌈

I'm sorry, man, but I can't take 'future is bright' seriously when you made the same post in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.

The absurdity of your post is that I did not say the future was bright all those years. I just listed why this current situation is different but you choose to ignore the FACTS! We just drafted KP and Willy 21 and 22 year old bigs with talent and we have our picks this coming draft as well. So how is that not a good position to be in???

Rose and Jennings are not locked in for next season. The worst you can say is Noah is overpaid. This is far from the worst situation to be in.

nixluva wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

nixluva wrote:No matter how much you bash Phil you can't erase the fact that he drafted well with KP and Willy and he preserved our picks so we have something to continue to build this team. I mean Rose and Jennings aren't locked in. So basically he took a flyer on one more group for Melo and it didn't work but he's not stuck.

The media is overstating the situation. Phil still has options to rebuild around KP and Willy. Future is BRIGHT!!! ☀️🌈

I'm sorry, man, but I can't take 'future is bright' seriously when you made the same post in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.

The absurdity of your post is that I did not say the future was bright all those years. I just listed why this current situation is different but you choose to ignore the FACTS! We just drafted KP and Willy 21 and 22 year old bigs with talent and we have our picks this coming draft as well. So how is that not a good position to be in???

Rose and Jennings are not locked in for next season. The worst you can say is Noah is overpaid. This is far from the worst situation to be in.

Really? I can't remember you ever saying the future wasn't bright. And you always said this year is different than the past.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

nixluva wrote:No matter how much you bash Phil you can't erase the fact that he drafted well with KP and Willy and he preserved our picks so we have something to continue to build this team. I mean Rose and Jennings aren't locked in. So basically he took a flyer on one more group for Melo and it didn't work but he's not stuck.

The media is overstating the situation. Phil still has options to rebuild around KP and Willy. Future is BRIGHT!!! ☀️🌈

I'm sorry, man, but I can't take 'future is bright' seriously when you made the same post in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.

The absurdity of your post is that I did not say the future was bright all those years. I just listed why this current situation is different but you choose to ignore the FACTS! We just drafted KP and Willy 21 and 22 year old bigs with talent and we have our picks this coming draft as well. So how is that not a good position to be in???

Rose and Jennings are not locked in for next season. The worst you can say is Noah is overpaid. This is far from the worst situation to be in.

Really? I can't remember you ever saying the future wasn't bright. And you always said this year is different than the past.

Being optimistic about a given season is not the same as saying the team's overall future is bright!!! You're confusing the issue. I may have said in SOME seasons that the future was bright if we had some future prospects to look forward to but that wasn't the case EVERY SEASON!!!

Now back to the REAL point. Do you really believe that this team doesn't have some very positive things going for it in terms of future prospects and team building potential? If you don't then I think you're being overly pessimistic for no reason!!!

Top reasons for a bright future start with KP and Willy. After that you have the fact that the Knicks have picks in all the coming drafts!!! Then the younger role players have shown promise. The team is not capped out!!! There are some tradeable contracts if Phil decides to clean house further. Like KOQ and Lee have reasonable deals. There really aren't any major roadblocks to prevent this team from rebuilding.

Sure Melo may be a tough trade but let's see what actually happens first before panicking. Noah is really the only contract some can be down about is Noah and that isn't the end of the world either.

Bottom line is the Knicks have KP, Willy, and a likely top 10 pick in a strong draft which is a GREAT starting point for a rebuilding team. It allows for an accelerated rebuild. Adding the cap space to the mix, and 2 2nd rd picks this draft, are bonuses as well. You can build a good team with that and do it fast if you are resourceful.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

nixluva wrote:No matter how much you bash Phil you can't erase the fact that he drafted well with KP and Willy and he preserved our picks so we have something to continue to build this team. I mean Rose and Jennings aren't locked in. So basically he took a flyer on one more group for Melo and it didn't work but he's not stuck.

The media is overstating the situation. Phil still has options to rebuild around KP and Willy. Future is BRIGHT!!! ☀️🌈

I'm sorry, man, but I can't take 'future is bright' seriously when you made the same post in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.

The absurdity of your post is that I did not say the future was bright all those years. I just listed why this current situation is different but you choose to ignore the FACTS! We just drafted KP and Willy 21 and 22 year old bigs with talent and we have our picks this coming draft as well. So how is that not a good position to be in???

Rose and Jennings are not locked in for next season. The worst you can say is Noah is overpaid. This is far from the worst situation to be in.

Really? I can't remember you ever saying the future wasn't bright. And you always said this year is different than the past.

Being optimistic about a given season is not the same as saying the team's overall future is bright!!! You're confusing the issue. I may have said in SOME seasons that the future was bright if we had some future prospects to look forward to but that wasn't the case EVERY SEASON!!!

Now back to the REAL point. Do you really believe that this team doesn't have some very positive things going for it in terms of future prospects and team building potential? If you don't then I think you're being overly pessimistic for no reason!!!

Top reasons for a bright future start with KP and Willy. After that you have the fact that the Knicks have picks in all the coming drafts!!! Then the younger role players have shown promise. The team is not capped out!!! There are some tradeable contracts if Phil decides to clean house further. Like KOQ and Lee have reasonable deals. There really aren't any major roadblocks to prevent this team from rebuilding.

Sure Melo may be a tough trade but let's see what actually happens first before panicking. Noah is really the only contract some can be down about is Noah and that isn't the end of the world either.

We have 1 player to be excited about. All our eggs are in that basket. We have a couple of young guys who might be nice role players but every team does.

Come on Bonn!!! KP and Willy look very promising and you left out the other factors on purpose to make it seem like we have nothing good to look forward to. This isn't necessary to try and artificially make things look bleak.

You spoke about having nice young role players as if it's a negative. In combination with KP and Willy, draft picks and some cap space that isn't a dark situation moving forward. Tell me how starting with KP, Willy, the other young players PLUS picks and cap space is a bad situation!!!