holfresh wrote:Wouldn't this have been discussed in their meeting??..It might be a good settlement for both parties..

But also, Phil is building a different team than Hornacek wants to coach..Phil has different ideas about how the Knicks should be playing..Shouldn't all these issues be addressed at once if we are going in a different direction??

I'd be willing to bet anything that it was discussed in the meeting. I said it on here a couple of times already that all these writers came out saying what was said in that meeting but there's no way any of them would know because the only two people in the meeting was Phil and Melo and both have shown many times that neither one of them are gonna tell any of these writers whatever they don't want them knowing so the writers just come up with things so they have an article to write. PJ Carlisemo also said it two days ago on espn that for all any of us know Melo could have given Phil a list of teams that he'd accept a trade to but no writer or anyone outside of that room would know that. One of my main reasons i hate writers is because they write things that aren't true just to make their article into something people want to read.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Lebron and Durant get criticized for their lack of loyalty, Melo gets criticized for his unconditional loyalty. If he accepts a trade that gets us back a good young starter and 1st round pick, it's worth it, but some things i will never understand. I was a fan of the trade for Melo, and would still make it again. The Knicks were not ruined by the trade. We still had Fields, who at the time was a starting SG as a rookie and had huge value, and eventually found Lin, and we let both of them walk for nothing. We didn't have the foresight to know we wouldn't resign them and deal them each for 1st round picks. The Barg deal was a failure of epic proportion. But we made a solid gamble on a 26 year old Melo just entering his prime and got his best years out of him. I am all for keeping him, but i understand that change might be needed for both sides. But we have to get real value for him. A long-term starting player and a 1st round pick has to be the minimum asking price.

Lebron and Durant are MVP and have moved in their prime. They left and gave no opportunity for compensation to their teams.
Melo was not wanted by many here for basketball reasons. His loyalty is really not in question because its never really be established. He has protected himself above the team. He rejected MDA ball movement and to a lessor degree the Triangle.

Melo is not evil, he is not MVP material. At this point the knicks would be better off getting a good return on him if the experiment is over with him.
Personally I like the guy. As discussed many times ones opinin might be rooted in their expectation of who he is as a player and what a superstar can do for a team.
He has not been that superstar that can carry a team, he was not the golden Mooby, and thus some are disappointed.

Boston traded Pierce and Garnett for a healthy return. I think Melo can get us good deal on some assets. I said good, not great.

Agree to most of what you said. But here is the thing, NY fans don't want good players. They want LBJ or Jordan. And they don't stop and consider that even they needed lots of star's to align in order to win. That's Melo. He was an All Star. But he was no LBJ or Jordan.just not good enough here. We rather trade any player that doesn't bring us a chip and roll the dice in draft lottery.

What? NY didnt have Jordan but they loved the team. These last 15 years have been tough to watch when you were used to winning. The common denominator is Jim Dolan--since he took over we have not been good. He tried to circumvent a period of tough time(so we can get a couple of high picks) to bring in the Shanden Andersen Steph Marbury Jerome James of the world. And when we get a good player in a trade--we give up 90 assets to do so robbing our cupboard. And the one time he is cheap--after giving up a number 1 pick for Bargnanai--its Kyle Lowry. This isnt anything about Knick fans--its about Jim Dolan running this team like sht5 while charging fans out the arse to watch a losing team. Fans get upset and they want change--change starts with assets and Carmelo is the guy who can bring in assets. I do NOT think fans dislike Melo or think he stinks(thats nuts)--they see we havent won with him and at 32-33 know that it is not happening. We need something new.

If I was Jimmy D Id get my guys to see what it would take to bring in the GM from either San Antonio or OKC. That would be good money spent--after spending 1 B of fans money for crp.

Im 48--imagine kids who are 22-23-24 theyve really never seen a good Knicks team?

CrushAlot wrote:Bryan Gibberman was a guest on Locked on Knicks today. One of his comments was that he could not believe how mature Melo has handled this situation as opposed to how Phil has handled it.

Why cuz Phil won't talk to them?

Here we go again. Another 10 years with nothing to show for it. We are too quick to pull the trigger. Melo still can play. If we can't get a first round pick and a second round plus a good player in return. Let the man retire a Knick. Phil will not bring a championship team to New York.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Here we go again. Another 10 years with nothing to show for it. We are too quick to pull the trigger. Melo still can play. If we can't get a first round pick and a second round plus a good player in return. Let the man retire a Knick. Phil will not bring a championship team to New York.

+1
Imagine letting a real star actually retire with the team.

GM's don't bring championships. Coaches don't bring championships. Players do. You can GM/Prez or coach the living sheehit out of the league all day long, but the players still have to play.

"The game has always been about buckets" - Russ.

BRIGGS wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Here we go again. Another 10 years with nothing to show for it. We are too quick to pull the trigger. Melo still can play. If we can't get a first round pick and a second round plus a good player in return. Let the man retire a Knick. Phil will not bring a championship team to New York.

+1
Imagine letting a real star actually retire with the team.

GM's don't bring championships. Coaches don't bring championships. Players do. You can GM/Prez or coach the living sheehit out of the league all day long, but the players still have to play.

"The game has always been about buckets" - Russ.

Yeah why didn't we have Spencer Haywood retire a Knick? Let's get real Carmelo Anthony doesn't hold Patrick Ewings jock he's not a true Kbick and the goal of the Nba is to actually win a chip . If the standard now is to spend a half billion to get someone who has gone through half their career with another team- we got that covered

Spenser Haywood? That's what you come up with? What's next BRIGGS, you going to cut and paste some old tkf posts about how Marbles was actually more of a "true" knick than Melo is? Yeah, I know, franchise records, scoring titles, winning the division and getting to the second round doesn't float your boat. Hooray!

Ummmm, Patrick didn't win a chip and he played here twice as long as Melo has. The standard is to strive to win a chip, genius. There are 30 other teams and there was only one MJ, one Kobe, one Duncan and one LBJ. Melo's not at that level. And even all four of them needed the exact perfect starphucques next to them to get to the goal.

Ewing asked to be traded when it was clear he wasn't The Man anymore. Melo's already started the deferment to KP, if only the effing unicorn could stay on the court and maybe put on the big boy pants and possibly win a game without Daddy. And Melo's still made it clear he wants to be a Knick, that he's settled here.

In this era, the willingness to actually come here and actually want to stay in a cluster **** like this is worth a little returned loyalty. At least I think it is.

CrushAlot wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Bryan Gibberman was a guest on Locked on Knicks today. One of his comments was that he could not believe how mature Melo has handled this situation as opposed to how Phil has handled it.

Why cuz Phil won't talk to them?

Is that what you really think?

Yeah... Melo is addressing the media and Phil isn't. Of course media guys are going to take a shot at him. That's so mature

Part of me wants him to stay but I can see that this is a team that looks ready to move on and build around KP. As great of a scorer as Melo is it doesn't lead to wins. The formula for building this team into a winner simply isn't there with Melo in the mix. They probably need to restructure this team with a different formula and maybe Melo is starting to see that.

nixluva wrote:It does seem like Melo is warming to the idea of dropping his NTC. Comments are starting to leak that he would do it IF the Knicks were seriously ready to rebuild. It's perhaps a result of the losing starting to wear on him or maybe his people are talking him into it. Whatever the reason, it seems like Melo is less resistant to the idea of a trade now.

Part of me wants him to stay but I can see that this is a team that looks ready to move on and build around KP. As great of a scorer as Melo is it doesn't lead to wins. The formula for building this team into a winner simply isn't there with Melo in the mix. They probably need to restructure this team with a different formula and maybe Melo is starting to see that.

CrushAlot wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Bryan Gibberman was a guest on Locked on Knicks today. One of his comments was that he could not believe how mature Melo has handled this situation as opposed to how Phil has handled it.

Why cuz Phil won't talk to them?

Is that what you really think?

Yeah... Melo is addressing the media and Phil isn't. Of course media guys are going to take a **** at him. That's so mature

Going through Charlie Rosen is mature? Phil has 11 rings. He is in charge. Melo has to fight to get a conversation with him yet Phil can blast him through the media and he isn't addressing the media. I guess you see what you want.
Reggie Miller layed it out perfectly last night. He said Phil used to do this when he was a coach but when he did it he would have to see the guy he did it to the next day at practice, on the plane or at a game. He doesn't see or communicate with the players often now. Melo called it. He is there everyday if Phil wants to talk with him. He also has to deal with the media daily asking him about Phil's critique. It doesn't need to be done through Rosen or the media. Be the boss and say what you need to in person.

Melo is an employee who received lots and lots of money to play and win ball games. I hope you all are not asking me to feel sorry that Melo has to answer questions with the media because that's part of the job description. Another part of the job description is that the Knicks will shower him with money - more than he can spend in a lifetime - to... well, win games. If the press is asking why, um... the Knicks aren't winning games then its on Melo - not Phil, not Dolan, not the tooth fairy to be accountable.

Secondly, Phil has ZERO obligation to suddenly answer every media generated rumor as we close in on the trade deadline because that's a FOOL'S ERRAND that I'm glad Phil doesn't fall for. Thank you, Phil.

As for what happened in a meeting - its easy to speculate given what has occurred. Melo said hey, "What the hell?" Phil says, "Not my **** but where there's smoke there's fire. You want out?" Melo: "No. I think we can turn this around." Phil: "OK but you should think about how much more you want to invest - you aren't getting younger." Melo: "I'll get back to you."

For Melo, the Wizards loss was a backbreaker. Salvaging the season may not be possible and he wants some playoff action.

Also a trade rumor was floating around of a three way where Melo lands in CLE with Lebron and JR. Lakers and Knicks echange some assets. CLE send assets to LA.

If you're Melo and that's on the table you have to think twice.

Just my two cents.

nixluva wrote:It does seem like Melo is warming to the idea of dropping his NTC. Comments are starting to leak that he would do it IF the Knicks were seriously ready to rebuild. It's perhaps a result of the losing starting to wear on him or maybe his people are talking him into it. Whatever the reason, it seems like Melo is less resistant to the idea of a trade now.

Part of me wants him to stay but I can see that this is a team that looks ready to move on and build around KP. As great of a scorer as Melo is it doesn't lead to wins. The formula for building this team into a winner simply isn't there with Melo in the mix. They probably need to restructure this team with a different formula and maybe Melo is starting to see that.

Bingo. Melo is a player without a position in a Hornacek lineup. He slows down the offense wherever you put him and he is always a second slow on defense. Yeah, he's a good trooper, fine person, great basketball player but... no longer a fit here... his window has closed [and it is sad].

There's nothing malicious in Phil's intentions or Melo's - time to cut bait. Melo has time to play for a unit somewhere else that *CAN* win - god bless him if he and Phil can make that happen.

And none of this is a reflection on this team's chances to turn it around. Without Melo they could be meaner and leaner, faster, and a better defensive unit. There's a reasonable balance that could be established without him regardless of reciprocal assets arriving.