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When is it time to hold Phil accountable?
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BigRedDog
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1/18/2017  8:33 PM
Lets remember Phil has had only 1 #1 draft pick of the Knicks since he took over. Yes that does hurt the team and Phil a lot. Not Phils fault at all
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
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Uptown
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1/18/2017  9:13 PM
PJax has to take a ton of blame...It seems as if he's hancuffing his coaches, forsing Rambis on each of his coaches, Taking digs at Melo in the press all the while Melo has stayed professional by not taking the bait and responding publicly. Bottom line, this franchise has been a circus for the last decade and a half. Hiring Phil has done nothing to change our image, instead Phil has kept the circus going. SMH
Bonn1997
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1/18/2017  9:26 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/18/2017  9:27 PM
BigRedDog wrote:Lets remember Phil has had only 1 #1 draft pick of the Knicks since he took over. Yes that does hurt the team and Phil a lot. Not Phils fault at all

OK but he's also had far more cap room than any of the previous GMs we criticize so much.
TripleThreat
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1/18/2017  10:01 PM
HofstraBBall wrote: So what will be the last straw for Phil?


I've said this for years, the Knicks would have been better off hiring a bright YOUNG front office mind from a winning organization. Someone who paid their dues in blood in a front office somewhere over time and could give the Knicks 10-15-20-25 years if he worked out well for the team. Great thing about a guy without a huge name is he doesn't have a legacy to protect like Jackson. A younger guy can think long range instead of a 70 year old thinking short range.

Knicks do what they always do, go after the name, even if the "name" might not be the best overall long term solution.

Best thing Jackson could have done was hire a young up and coming GM prospect and run interference with Dolan to let the kid do his job the way he saw fit.
fwk00
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1/18/2017  10:03 PM
Now is a great time. Phil is responsible for the team that just beat the Celtics. Kudos, Phil!
Knixkik
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1/18/2017  10:05 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote: So what will be the last straw for Phil?


I've said this for years, the Knicks would have been better off hiring a bright YOUNG front office mind from a winning organization. Someone who paid their dues in blood in a front office somewhere over time and could give the Knicks 10-15-20-25 years if he worked out well for the team. Great thing about a guy without a huge name is he doesn't have a legacy to protect like Jackson. A younger guy can think long range instead of a 70 year old thinking short range.

Knicks do what they always do, go after the name, even if the "name" might not be the best overall long term solution.

Best thing Jackson could have done was hire a young up and coming GM prospect and run interference with Dolan to let the kid do his job the way he saw fit.


But phil has been thinking long range. He's been our most forward thinking prez. He's added a bunch if young talent and preserved draft picks.
yellowboy90
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1/18/2017  10:06 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:Lets remember Phil has had only 1 #1 draft pick of the Knicks since he took over. Yes that does hurt the team and Phil a lot. Not Phils fault at all

OK but he's also had far more cap room than any of the previous GMs we criticize so much.

Grant was picked in round 1.
nyknickzingis
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1/18/2017  10:21 PM
Phil's short term moves have been bad or blurs, but the longterm vision is fantastic. I know why guys like Steven A Smith are upset with Phil. They thought he was hired to make 12 million a year to go out and get great free agents, I think it's tough even if you are Phil Jackson to sell a team with just Melo and bad older vets on it. Phil didn't get a great core to work with. He had Melo, but what would free agents be excited to play with? Phil's plan seems to be about a long term rebuild and you see that with KP, Willy and many of his other moves. He took a chance on Rose since Rose is still in his athletic prime age of 28. The Noah contract is the real burner. Horrible. Anyway, I think if Phil drafts someone good in the 2017 draft, I will be content. New York may finally have a young core of 5-6 players after the 2017 draft, to work with longterm. We may still even keep Melo and Rose, but we'd also have a young core for the longrun, which is very important.
BigRedDog
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1/18/2017  10:26 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:Lets remember Phil has had only 1 #1 draft pick of the Knicks since he took over. Yes that does hurt the team and Phil a lot. Not Phils fault at all

OK but he's also had far more cap room than any of the previous GMs we criticize so much.

Grant was picked in round 1.

It wasn't our draft pick. We bought it at 19.. Much different than losing our lottery picks

fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
Nalod
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1/18/2017  11:01 PM
Riff with melo is Media driven. Think about it, Melo is hounded my media and usually it reports Melo's "annoyance", but is it always a direct quote or media interpretation?
Phil is on the hook for the record.


Hold Phil accountable to what benchmark?
crzymdups
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1/18/2017  11:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/18/2017  11:09 PM
Nalod wrote:Riff with melo is Media driven. Think about it, Melo is hounded my media and usually it reports Melo's "annoyance", but is it always a direct quote or media interpretation?
Phil is on the hook for the record.


Hold Phil accountable to what benchmark?

Well right now, Melo is being held accountable for what Phil says (or Charlie Rosen)... meanwhile Phil gets to say whatever he wants and then never faces the music or acts accountable in any way. Phil's big off-season addition of DRose went AWOL and Phil didn't say boo. Phil's big off-season signing of Noah is playing terrible and Phil doesn't say boo. He's left Hornacek and Melo to twist in the breeze. There's no benchmark to hold Phil to... except looking at how other well run NBA teams work.

¿ △ ?
Nalod
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1/18/2017  11:11 PM
He is accountable for Willy, Kuz, letting Derrick williams walk into obscurity, signing baker, Trading for rose and for signing Jenning. He is accountable for signing RoPez.
He is accountable for tearing it down and rebuilding. He is accountable for not repeating the sins of the past. He is accountable for Hornacek.
he is accountable for paying melo, but also challenging him. He is accountable for all that is good, and all that is bad. He is accountable for everything.
At what benchmark standard do we hold him to?
Our emotional euphoria after 14-10? or the recent losing streak?
I also hold him accountable for drafting KP, for not plucking it up. Also to not reach and try to move up in the draft to take Oka4, or Russell. Also, for not taking Mudiay!!!
crzymdups
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1/18/2017  11:21 PM
Nalod wrote:He is accountable for Willy, Kuz, letting Derrick williams walk into obscurity, signing baker, Trading for rose and for signing Jenning. He is accountable for signing RoPez.
He is accountable for tearing it down and rebuilding. He is accountable for not repeating the sins of the past. He is accountable for Hornacek.
he is accountable for paying melo, but also challenging him. He is accountable for all that is good, and all that is bad. He is accountable for everything.
At what benchmark standard do we hold him to?
Our emotional euphoria after 14-10? or the recent losing streak?
I also hold him accountable for drafting KP, for not plucking it up. Also to not reach and try to move up in the draft to take Oka4, or Russell. Also, for not taking Mudiay!!!

He's accountable for what goes on with the team... but also for things like the Melo trade drama which he created. Also for responding to the DRose AWOL incident. It's all his job. It's a lot of work! President of Basketball Operations is a big job! $12M is a lot of money! I hear he gets free popcorn at the garden, too.

¿ △ ?
CrushAlot
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1/18/2017  11:25 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote: So what will be the last straw for Phil?


I've said this for years, the Knicks would have been better off hiring a bright YOUNG front office mind from a winning organization. Someone who paid their dues in blood in a front office somewhere over time and could give the Knicks 10-15-20-25 years if he worked out well for the team. Great thing about a guy without a huge name is he doesn't have a legacy to protect like Jackson. A younger guy can think long range instead of a 70 year old thinking short range.

Knicks do what they always do, go after the name, even if the "name" might not be the best overall long term solution.

Best thing Jackson could have done was hire a young up and coming GM prospect and run interference with Dolan to let the kid do his job the way he saw fit.

I don't think a young guy gets autonomy from Dolan. That is one of the biggest things Phil brings to the table. I agree about Phil getting a young up and comer. By all accounts Phil isn't doing the leg work with other teams and has limited contact with others in his profession. There has to be a better candidate then Mills as the heir apparent.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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1/18/2017  11:27 PM
Nalod wrote:Riff with melo is Media driven. Think about it, Melo is hounded my media and usually it reports Melo's "annoyance", but is it always a direct quote or media interpretation?
Phil is on the hook for the record.


Hold Phil accountable to what benchmark?

Rosen writes the Phil Files and is one of Phil's buddies. He is the only guy in the media that I am aware of that he talks with on a regular basis. I think Melo being upset by the Rosen article is because Rosen is the guy PHil has used to blast his players in the past.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
crzymdups
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1/18/2017  11:28 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote: So what will be the last straw for Phil?


I've said this for years, the Knicks would have been better off hiring a bright YOUNG front office mind from a winning organization. Someone who paid their dues in blood in a front office somewhere over time and could give the Knicks 10-15-20-25 years if he worked out well for the team. Great thing about a guy without a huge name is he doesn't have a legacy to protect like Jackson. A younger guy can think long range instead of a 70 year old thinking short range.

Knicks do what they always do, go after the name, even if the "name" might not be the best overall long term solution.

Best thing Jackson could have done was hire a young up and coming GM prospect and run interference with Dolan to let the kid do his job the way he saw fit.

I don't think a young guy gets autonomy from Dolan. That is one of the biggest things Phil brings to the table. I agree about Phil getting a young up and comer. By all accounts Phil isn't doing the leg work with other teams and has limited contact with others in his profession. There has to be a better candidate then Mills as the heir apparent.

That's another problem with the Knicks - I'm not quite sure how to articulate it, but I think it boils down to a lack of trust at all levels...

Dolan hires Phil to be the guy... but keeps his guy Mills as general manager, to be Dolan's eyes and ears on the Phil situation.

Phil hires Hornacek to be the guy... but keeps his guy Rambis as defensive coach, to be Phil's eyes and ears on the Hornacek situation.

Just a weird sort of untrusting structure they've created.

I agree the nice thing Phil brings is a certain level of autonomy... but Dolan doesn't QUITE trust him all the way and so has left Mills in a position of power in the front office.

¿ △ ?
reub
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1/19/2017  12:01 AM
Phil acquired Baker, Willy, Kuz, Plumlee and NDour (who I haven't given up on) all as young free agents with no draft picks to use. That is good work.
stopstandthere
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1/19/2017  12:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/19/2017  12:48 AM
The biggest achievement of Phil was to pick KP .

And Phil is accoutable to Dolan. As long as Dolan is happy with current status, I do not think Phil has anything to worry about.
smackeddog
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1/19/2017  3:56 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.

It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.

Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).

All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.
GoNyGoNyGo
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1/19/2017  7:45 AM
I am still supporting PJax. Again the only guy who has won something. He wants to win in NY. He is implementing a culture. It takes time.

Hornacek is the right coach for this too. The D needs work but its more the effort of the players than the scheme. The "bench" guys get it and make it work.
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When is it time to hold Phil accountable?
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