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We think that KP is the future yet he is already having injury problems.Don't bet on it. He is not playing like a superstar
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franco12
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1/16/2017  8:31 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:
franco12 wrote:Part of the problem is the media & us fans over hype a player like KP and where we think he's going to be.

I think it's fair to be a bit reserved and concerned with some of the injury things. Does he fill out, and continue to develop into that special talent- or is he shawn bradley 2.0? Or somewhere in between?

Bradley averaged 20/7/2 in his second season? Seriously that's a crazy comparison.

which bradley are you talking about?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bradlsh01.html

2nd year - 9, 8 & 3
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franco12
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1/16/2017  8:36 AM
franco12 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
franco12 wrote:Part of the problem is the media & us fans over hype a player like KP and where we think he's going to be.

I think it's fair to be a bit reserved and concerned with some of the injury things. Does he fill out, and continue to develop into that special talent- or is he shawn bradley 2.0? Or somewhere in between?

Bradley averaged 20/7/2 in his second season? Seriously that's a crazy comparison.

which bradley are you talking about?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bradlsh01.html

2nd year - 9, 8 & 3

ok - you're talking about Porzingas current stats -

still, nothing about what he has done guarantees he will be a super star. He could regress, be injury riddled. I doubt - but...
Bonn1997
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1/16/2017  8:43 AM
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:There should be absolutely no question, KP is a player to build around. A franchise caliber player. There is probably only 10 teams or so in the league that wouldn't trade us their best player for an opportunity to build around kp. That's a fact. Talent is limitless.

KP could be a player to build around. You can't say he is one until he is one. There's just no way to know how his game will change with time.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. Let's say he is on pace to be a player to build around and the team should operate as such.


That's a leap. There isn't one pace that players improve at. Some players actually peak in their first few years. Even if it's less exciting it's safer just to think of him as a player to build with (basically a helpful piece).
nixluva
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1/16/2017  9:01 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2017  9:01 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:There should be absolutely no question, KP is a player to build around. A franchise caliber player. There is probably only 10 teams or so in the league that wouldn't trade us their best player for an opportunity to build around kp. That's a fact. Talent is limitless.

KP could be a player to build around. You can't say he is one until he is one. There's just no way to know how his game will change with time.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. Let's say he is on pace to be a player to build around and the team should operate as such.


That's a leap. There isn't one pace that players improve at. Some players actually peak in their first few years. Even if it's less exciting it's safer just to think of him as a player to build with (basically a helpful piece).

KP has an injury and so we haven't been seeing him at his best, still tho he has a TON of talent and IMO he's got as good of a shot to be a Franchise player as any of the other young studs. We just have to watch and see how things develop.

One thing that will accelerate his progress is to have a PG that gets him the ball in prime position with regularity!!! I've been SHOCKED at the lack of chemistry between Rose n KP!!! Doesn't it alarm anyone else how what should've been a natural pairing has not developed into a regular standout feature of our team identity??? How has Jeff and the staff not managed to practically FORCE those 2 into constant 2 man scenarios this year? As I've asked before where are all the Rose to KP HIGHLIGHTS???
arkrud
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1/16/2017  9:03 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:There should be absolutely no question, KP is a player to build around. A franchise caliber player. There is probably only 10 teams or so in the league that wouldn't trade us their best player for an opportunity to build around kp. That's a fact. Talent is limitless.

KP could be a player to build around. You can't say he is one until he is one. There's just no way to know how his game will change with time.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. Let's say he is on pace to be a player to build around and the team should operate as such.


That's a leap. There isn't one pace that players improve at. Some players actually peak in their first few years. Even if it's less exciting it's safer just to think of him as a player to build with (basically a helpful piece).

No matter how good KP can become the main thing is team structure and organizational culture.
Players come and go but system remains.
This what we see in NY last 20 years.
Players, coaches, and GMs come and go but team still suck.
KP can help to build winning system and culture if organization commit to it.
Will KP be a superstar after all is less important.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Knixkik
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1/16/2017  9:59 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:There should be absolutely no question, KP is a player to build around. A franchise caliber player. There is probably only 10 teams or so in the league that wouldn't trade us their best player for an opportunity to build around kp. That's a fact. Talent is limitless.

KP could be a player to build around. You can't say he is one until he is one. There's just no way to know how his game will change with time.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. Let's say he is on pace to be a player to build around and the team should operate as such.


That's a leap. There isn't one pace that players improve at. Some players actually peak in their first few years. Even if it's less exciting it's safer just to think of him as a player to build with (basically a helpful piece).

The conversation shouldn't be "is he a future star". It should be "how do we build this team to best give him a chance to be a future star." Building with him vs. building around him is just semantics. The future of this franchise hinges on the ability to develop him into a star. And we are lucky he has the talent to do so. No one in minnesota is saying "what if Towns doesn't become a star." Knicks fans are so accustomed to things going wrong. We just have to hope things fall into place, and build the team like they will.
StarksEwing1
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1/16/2017  10:08 AM
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:There should be absolutely no question, KP is a player to build around. A franchise caliber player. There is probably only 10 teams or so in the league that wouldn't trade us their best player for an opportunity to build around kp. That's a fact. Talent is limitless.

KP could be a player to build around. You can't say he is one until he is one. There's just no way to know how his game will change with time.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. Let's say he is on pace to be a player to build around and the team should operate as such.


That's a leap. There isn't one pace that players improve at. Some players actually peak in their first few years. Even if it's less exciting it's safer just to think of him as a player to build with (basically a helpful piece).

KP has an injury and so we haven't been seeing him at his best, still tho he has a TON of talent and IMO he's got as good of a shot to be a Franchise player as any of the other young studs. We just have to watch and see how things develop.

One thing that will accelerate his progress is to have a PG that gets him the ball in prime position with regularity!!! I've been SHOCKED at the lack of chemistry between Rose n KP!!! Doesn't it alarm anyone else how what should've been a natural pairing has not developed into a regular standout feature of our team identity??? How has Jeff and the staff not managed to practically FORCE those 2 into constant 2 man scenarios this year? As I've asked before where are all the Rose to KP HIGHLIGHTS???

we definetly need a real point guard. Thats part of the reason i wasnt thrilled with the Rose trade. It will make KP even more of a threat
Knixkik
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1/16/2017  10:11 AM
nixluva wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:There should be absolutely no question, KP is a player to build around. A franchise caliber player. There is probably only 10 teams or so in the league that wouldn't trade us their best player for an opportunity to build around kp. That's a fact. Talent is limitless.

KP could be a player to build around. You can't say he is one until he is one. There's just no way to know how his game will change with time.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. Let's say he is on pace to be a player to build around and the team should operate as such.


That's a leap. There isn't one pace that players improve at. Some players actually peak in their first few years. Even if it's less exciting it's safer just to think of him as a player to build with (basically a helpful piece).

KP has an injury and so we haven't been seeing him at his best, still tho he has a TON of talent and IMO he's got as good of a shot to be a Franchise player as any of the other young studs. We just have to watch and see how things develop.

One thing that will accelerate his progress is to have a PG that gets him the ball in prime position with regularity!!! I've been SHOCKED at the lack of chemistry between Rose n KP!!! Doesn't it alarm anyone else how what should've been a natural pairing has not developed into a regular standout feature of our team identity??? How has Jeff and the staff not managed to practically FORCE those 2 into constant 2 man scenarios this year? As I've asked before where are all the Rose to KP HIGHLIGHTS???

This is what it comes down to. No guarantee he becomes a star, but he has as good a chance as anyone. There are front office people in the league right now that would probably pick him out of anyone to start a franchise with.
Bonn1997
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1/16/2017  10:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2017  10:26 AM
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:There should be absolutely no question, KP is a player to build around. A franchise caliber player. There is probably only 10 teams or so in the league that wouldn't trade us their best player for an opportunity to build around kp. That's a fact. Talent is limitless.

KP could be a player to build around. You can't say he is one until he is one. There's just no way to know how his game will change with time.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. Let's say he is on pace to be a player to build around and the team should operate as such.


That's a leap. There isn't one pace that players improve at. Some players actually peak in their first few years. Even if it's less exciting it's safer just to think of him as a player to build with (basically a helpful piece).

The conversation shouldn't be "is he a future star". It should be "how do we build this team to best give him a chance to be a future star." Building with him vs. building around him is just semantics. The future of this franchise hinges on the ability to develop him into a star. And we are lucky he has the talent to do so. No one in minnesota is saying "what if Towns doesn't become a star." Knicks fans are so accustomed to things going wrong. We just have to hope things fall into place, and build the team like they will.


Towns won ROY and already is closer to being a star than Porzingis (so there's less uncertainty about his downside). "Semantics" refers to meaning, and there is a difference in meaning between building with vs. around. Building around IMO means you're expecting the player to be the superstar and all decisions are built around that expectation. If the player doesn't become a star, what do you do? Building with just means you try to get good players at good deals, and you view him as being an important piece.
Knixkik
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1/16/2017  10:56 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:There should be absolutely no question, KP is a player to build around. A franchise caliber player. There is probably only 10 teams or so in the league that wouldn't trade us their best player for an opportunity to build around kp. That's a fact. Talent is limitless.

KP could be a player to build around. You can't say he is one until he is one. There's just no way to know how his game will change with time.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. Let's say he is on pace to be a player to build around and the team should operate as such.


That's a leap. There isn't one pace that players improve at. Some players actually peak in their first few years. Even if it's less exciting it's safer just to think of him as a player to build with (basically a helpful piece).

The conversation shouldn't be "is he a future star". It should be "how do we build this team to best give him a chance to be a future star." Building with him vs. building around him is just semantics. The future of this franchise hinges on the ability to develop him into a star. And we are lucky he has the talent to do so. No one in minnesota is saying "what if Towns doesn't become a star." Knicks fans are so accustomed to things going wrong. We just have to hope things fall into place, and build the team like they will.


Towns won ROY and already is closer to being a star than Porzingis (so there's less uncertainty about his downside). "Semantics" refers to meaning, and there is a difference in meaning between building with vs. around. Building around IMO means you're expecting the player to be the superstar and all decisions are built around that expectation. If the player doesn't become a star, what do you do? Building with just means you try to get good players at good deals, and you view him as being an important piece.

Well i would build "around" KP. It is a gamble, but one worth taking. Towns might have less downside, but he is putting up some pretty empty stats in Minn right now. KP probably has slightly more upside than Towns too. I think as fans we are so accustomed to failure that we don't know a good thing when we have it. If every NBA analyst out there is talking about KP's unique abilities and unlimited upside, and being one of the brightest young players the league has seen in a long time, i think we should just take them at their word and not overthink it.
arkrud
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1/16/2017  10:58 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:There should be absolutely no question, KP is a player to build around. A franchise caliber player. There is probably only 10 teams or so in the league that wouldn't trade us their best player for an opportunity to build around kp. That's a fact. Talent is limitless.

KP could be a player to build around. You can't say he is one until he is one. There's just no way to know how his game will change with time.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. Let's say he is on pace to be a player to build around and the team should operate as such.


That's a leap. There isn't one pace that players improve at. Some players actually peak in their first few years. Even if it's less exciting it's safer just to think of him as a player to build with (basically a helpful piece).

The conversation shouldn't be "is he a future star". It should be "how do we build this team to best give him a chance to be a future star." Building with him vs. building around him is just semantics. The future of this franchise hinges on the ability to develop him into a star. And we are lucky he has the talent to do so. No one in minnesota is saying "what if Towns doesn't become a star." Knicks fans are so accustomed to things going wrong. We just have to hope things fall into place, and build the team like they will.


Towns won ROY and already is closer to being a star than Porzingis (so there's less uncertainty about his downside). "Semantics" refers to meaning, and there is a difference in meaning between building with vs. around. Building around IMO means you're expecting the player to be the superstar and all decisions are built around that expectation. If the player doesn't become a star, what do you do? Building with just means you try to get good players at good deals, and you view him as being an important piece.

"Building with" is the only way to start. Team can end up "Building around" AFTER one of the building blocks will became a superstar.
Knicks tried to start with "Building around" for too long already to prove that this does not work. But many are still not convinced.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
HofstraBBall
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1/16/2017  10:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2017  11:00 AM
KP has shown great ability. Still a work in progress. Hope we keep expectations at normal levels. Impossible for this bunch and this city ofcourse. Biggest problem I see is that he cannot play 5 as he is not a center and doesn't have the body. And he can't cover stretch 4's or post up as a 4. Honestly, I would prefer a player that can play his position really well. ie. KAT at center. Embid, etc. Or an excellent post up power forward that can play down low and create havic on boards . For me, his biggest challenge is to go away from playing like a 2 or 3 and be more like a 4 or 5. Not a fan of a 7'3 guy hovering by 3pt. line and popping instead of cutting on PnR. But think he will continue to improve. Also a side note, be careful thinking he will ever be able to create his own shot with dribble. He will need a CP3 type PG. You take CP3 away from Clips and Griffin is just another guy that can dunk.
'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
martin
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1/16/2017  11:05 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:KP has shown great ability. Still a work in progress. Hope we keep expectations at normal levels. Impossible for this bunch and this city ofcourse. Biggest problem I see is that he cannot play 5 as he is not a center and doesn't have the body. And he can't cover stretch 4's or post up as a 4. Honestly, I would prefer a player that can play his position really well. ie. KAT at center. Embid, etc. Or an excellent post up power forward that can play down low and create havic on boards . For me, his biggest challenge is to go away from playing like a 2 or 3 and be more like a 4 or 5. Not a fan of a 7'3 guy hovering by 3pt. line and popping instead of cutting on PnR. But think he will continue to improve. Also a side note, be careful thinking he will ever be able to create his own shot with dribble. He will need a CP3 type PG. You take CP3 away from Clips and Griffin is just another guy that can dunk.

He is more Dirk than Ewing. I like KP for who is can be not who you want him to be

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nyknickzingis
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1/16/2017  11:13 AM
Yes, Martin.
That's who I compare him to. Dirk. With more athleticism and defense.

Now whether he makes the jumps that Dirk made in his prime years, we will see. Certainly the base is there. It's why Horny wanted him to work with Dirk this past offseason. One summer working with Dirk and learning how to shoot over smaller guys from 15 feet and inside will go a long way for KP.

Talent wise he has it. We'll see if he can put it together in his prime. Injuries are a concern, without question.
StarksEwing1
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1/16/2017  11:13 AM
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:KP has shown great ability. Still a work in progress. Hope we keep expectations at normal levels. Impossible for this bunch and this city ofcourse. Biggest problem I see is that he cannot play 5 as he is not a center and doesn't have the body. And he can't cover stretch 4's or post up as a 4. Honestly, I would prefer a player that can play his position really well. ie. KAT at center. Embid, etc. Or an excellent post up power forward that can play down low and create havic on boards . For me, his biggest challenge is to go away from playing like a 2 or 3 and be more like a 4 or 5. Not a fan of a 7'3 guy hovering by 3pt. line and popping instead of cutting on PnR. But think he will continue to improve. Also a side note, be careful thinking he will ever be able to create his own shot with dribble. He will need a CP3 type PG. You take CP3 away from Clips and Griffin is just another guy that can dunk.

He is more Dirk than Ewing. I like KP for who is can be not who you want him to be

agreed he is more dirk than ewing
Gudris
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1/16/2017  11:18 AM
Kp is out today again :/
Knixkik
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1/16/2017  11:21 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:KP has shown great ability. Still a work in progress. Hope we keep expectations at normal levels. Impossible for this bunch and this city ofcourse. Biggest problem I see is that he cannot play 5 as he is not a center and doesn't have the body. And he can't cover stretch 4's or post up as a 4. Honestly, I would prefer a player that can play his position really well. ie. KAT at center. Embid, etc. Or an excellent post up power forward that can play down low and create havic on boards . For me, his biggest challenge is to go away from playing like a 2 or 3 and be more like a 4 or 5. Not a fan of a 7'3 guy hovering by 3pt. line and popping instead of cutting on PnR. But think he will continue to improve. Also a side note, be careful thinking he will ever be able to create his own shot with dribble. He will need a CP3 type PG. You take CP3 away from Clips and Griffin is just another guy that can dunk.

He is more Dirk than Ewing. I like KP for who is can be not who you want him to be

agreed he is more dirk than ewing

Is regards to the original highlighted point, positions are changing so much. I don't think there is a definite type of a position. But KP is definitely more Dirk. Rim protection definitely sets him apart though. I prefer KP over Towns because of the shooting ability and rim protection. Those are unique skills and shooting is necessary in today's game. KP is already a 40% 3pt shooter.
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1/16/2017  11:22 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2017  11:31 AM
Gudris wrote:Kp is out today again :/

Good, no need to rush him. I'm sure he would play if it were a playoff game or something. But they need to be careful.

Correction: Where did you see he is out? All i see is he is a gametime decision, and if he plays, he may start at the 5 with Melo at the 4.
HofstraBBall
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1/16/2017  11:32 AM
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:KP has shown great ability. Still a work in progress. Hope we keep expectations at normal levels. Impossible for this bunch and this city ofcourse. Biggest problem I see is that he cannot play 5 as he is not a center and doesn't have the body. And he can't cover stretch 4's or post up as a 4. Honestly, I would prefer a player that can play his position really well. ie. KAT at center. Embid, etc. Or an excellent post up power forward that can play down low and create havic on boards . For me, his biggest challenge is to go away from playing like a 2 or 3 and be more like a 4 or 5. Not a fan of a 7'3 guy hovering by 3pt. line and popping instead of cutting on PnR. But think he will continue to improve. Also a side note, be careful thinking he will ever be able to create his own shot with dribble. He will need a CP3 type PG. You take CP3 away from Clips and Griffin is just another guy that can dunk.

He is more Dirk than Ewing. I like KP for who is can be not who you want him to be

Your the only one stating you want him to be like someone. I said I would prefer "to have" a traditional position talent. Like KAT or Embid. And he is no Dirk...yet. Dirk had/has a great post up game

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
HofstraBBall
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1/16/2017  12:08 PM
Knixkik wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:KP has shown great ability. Still a work in progress. Hope we keep expectations at normal levels. Impossible for this bunch and this city ofcourse. Biggest problem I see is that he cannot play 5 as he is not a center and doesn't have the body. And he can't cover stretch 4's or post up as a 4. Honestly, I would prefer a player that can play his position really well. ie. KAT at center. Embid, etc. Or an excellent post up power forward that can play down low and create havic on boards . For me, his biggest challenge is to go away from playing like a 2 or 3 and be more like a 4 or 5. Not a fan of a 7'3 guy hovering by 3pt. line and popping instead of cutting on PnR. But think he will continue to improve. Also a side note, be careful thinking he will ever be able to create his own shot with dribble. He will need a CP3 type PG. You take CP3 away from Clips and Griffin is just another guy that can dunk.

He is more Dirk than Ewing. I like KP for who is can be not who you want him to be

agreed he is more dirk than ewing

Is regards to the original highlighted point, positions are changing so much. I don't think there is a definite type of a position. But KP is definitely more Dirk. Rim protection definitely sets him apart though. I prefer KP over Towns because of the shooting ability and rim protection. Those are unique skills and shooting is necessary in today's game. KP is already a 40% 3pt shooter.

Issue is, Cant be a rim protector and cover a stretch 4. Problem we have had. If he was a true 5 and had the ability to protect the rim he would be much more valuable on defense.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
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We think that KP is the future yet he is already having injury problems.Don't bet on it. He is not playing like a superstar
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