Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

callmened wrote:normally i would agree but theyve invested way too much in this melo, noah, rose core. it would be like admitting defeat - which theyll never do.

my goal with this squad is sneak into the playoffs with this flawed team. get kp playoff experience. rinse and repeat the next 2 yrs with rose and melo. once their contracts run out build around kp

This is exactly right. We can work with what we have, and build alongside KP at the same time. We will have a great opportunity to reset with some good young players before KP even hits his prime, if this is done correctly.

The Knicks have their pick this year I feel this is an opportunity to get very good quality player that will develop next to KP. I don't want the Knicks to pick in middle of the draft and not get the quality player they need to play with KP. Rose and Melo are proving they don't have what it takes to get the team to the next level and they are just good enough to have the Knick on the out looking in on the draft.

Playoffs aren't important right now because they are not going there to win anything.

But the difference in picks 10 and 15, or whatever won't be great. We aren't getting a top 5 pick with a tank. The upside of a few spots isn't worth the effort of tanking and destroying the confidence of KP. A nice prospect would be nice but we should be getting that regardless, and we have to think of the big picture. Any progress is good progress. Winning more than 32 is that, even though its not looking like we are going to make a run at anything. A few higher slots in the draft will not change the trajectory of this team. We learned that in 2015. If we landed number 2 or 3, we wouldn't have KP.

There is a difference between 10-15. But if you start you slide ASAP there is a better chance in odds to get in the top 4.

nixluva wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

callmened wrote:normally i would agree but theyve invested way too much in this melo, noah, rose core. it would be like admitting defeat - which theyll never do.

my goal with this squad is sneak into the playoffs with this flawed team. get kp playoff experience. rinse and repeat the next 2 yrs with rose and melo. once their contracts run out build around kp

This is exactly right. We can work with what we have, and build alongside KP at the same time. We will have a great opportunity to reset with some good young players before KP even hits his prime, if this is done correctly.

The Knicks have their pick this year I feel this is an opportunity to get very good quality player that will develop next to KP. I don't want the Knicks to pick in middle of the draft and not get the quality player they need to play with KP. Rose and Melo are proving they don't have what it takes to get the team to the next level and they are just good enough to have the Knick on the out looking in on the draft.

Playoffs aren't important right now because they are not going there to win anything.

The Knicks still have a chance to improve this season and finish strong. There's no reason to panic. Right now they're 2.5 games back of the 5 spot. Way too early to give up on this team in hopes of a better draft pick!!!

But even if we make the playoffs we don't play defense well so how far would expect them to even go?

It's better they tank now and get KP that running mate before he ends up like Anthony Davis on the Pel

were talking about the ny knicks? lol. jk jk

the reality is were stuck with melo and maybe rose for the next few yrs. win 40 games a yr, maybe sneak into the playoffs, whatever. as long as the development of KP continues and somehow someway they get lucky and acquire/draft a running partner for kp

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

callmened wrote:normally i would agree but theyve invested way too much in this melo, noah, rose core. it would be like admitting defeat - which theyll never do.

my goal with this squad is sneak into the playoffs with this flawed team. get kp playoff experience. rinse and repeat the next 2 yrs with rose and melo. once their contracts run out build around kp

This is exactly right. We can work with what we have, and build alongside KP at the same time. We will have a great opportunity to reset with some good young players before KP even hits his prime, if this is done correctly.

The Knicks have their pick this year I feel this is an opportunity to get very good quality player that will develop next to KP. I don't want the Knicks to pick in middle of the draft and not get the quality player they need to play with KP. Rose and Melo are proving they don't have what it takes to get the team to the next level and they are just good enough to have the Knick on the out looking in on the draft.

Playoffs aren't important right now because they are not going there to win anything.

But the difference in picks 10 and 15, or whatever won't be great. We aren't getting a top 5 pick with a tank. The upside of a few spots isn't worth the effort of tanking and destroying the confidence of KP. A nice prospect would be nice but we should be getting that regardless, and we have to think of the big picture. Any progress is good progress. Winning more than 32 is that, even though its not looking like we are going to make a run at anything. A few higher slots in the draft will not change the trajectory of this team. We learned that in 2015. If we landed number 2 or 3, we wouldn't have KP.

Not quite true. There is a big difference between 10 & 15:

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

35% of getting a star at 10. 10% at 15.

5% chance of a bust at 10, but 20% at 15 and a 5% chance that they never even play.

Don't let facts get in the way of your thinking....

fwk00 wrote:At this stage of the team's development, tanking is fool's gold.

I agree - it's too early, but the FO has to be cognizant of what is going on, and be prepared to at some point take a different approach here (e.g., trade a Rose or Jennings for picks/future consideration/young player).

franco12 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

callmened wrote:normally i would agree but theyve invested way too much in this melo, noah, rose core. it would be like admitting defeat - which theyll never do.

my goal with this squad is sneak into the playoffs with this flawed team. get kp playoff experience. rinse and repeat the next 2 yrs with rose and melo. once their contracts run out build around kp

This is exactly right. We can work with what we have, and build alongside KP at the same time. We will have a great opportunity to reset with some good young players before KP even hits his prime, if this is done correctly.

The Knicks have their pick this year I feel this is an opportunity to get very good quality player that will develop next to KP. I don't want the Knicks to pick in middle of the draft and not get the quality player they need to play with KP. Rose and Melo are proving they don't have what it takes to get the team to the next level and they are just good enough to have the Knick on the out looking in on the draft.

Playoffs aren't important right now because they are not going there to win anything.

But the difference in picks 10 and 15, or whatever won't be great. We aren't getting a top 5 pick with a tank. The upside of a few spots isn't worth the effort of tanking and destroying the confidence of KP. A nice prospect would be nice but we should be getting that regardless, and we have to think of the big picture. Any progress is good progress. Winning more than 32 is that, even though its not looking like we are going to make a run at anything. A few higher slots in the draft will not change the trajectory of this team. We learned that in 2015. If we landed number 2 or 3, we wouldn't have KP.

Not quite true. There is a big difference between 10 & 15:

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

35% of getting a star at 10. 10% at 15.

5% chance of a bust at 10, but 20% at 15 and a 5% chance that they never even play.

Don't let facts get in the way of your thinking....

As I have said, hurting KPs development is not worth it. You can see how those numbers jump all over the place on your reference site. Pick 14 and 16 for example show a different story.

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

callmened wrote:normally i would agree but theyve invested way too much in this melo, noah, rose core. it would be like admitting defeat - which theyll never do.

my goal with this squad is sneak into the playoffs with this flawed team. get kp playoff experience. rinse and repeat the next 2 yrs with rose and melo. once their contracts run out build around kp

This is exactly right. We can work with what we have, and build alongside KP at the same time. We will have a great opportunity to reset with some good young players before KP even hits his prime, if this is done correctly.

The Knicks have their pick this year I feel this is an opportunity to get very good quality player that will develop next to KP. I don't want the Knicks to pick in middle of the draft and not get the quality player they need to play with KP. Rose and Melo are proving they don't have what it takes to get the team to the next level and they are just good enough to have the Knick on the out looking in on the draft.

Playoffs aren't important right now because they are not going there to win anything.

But the difference in picks 10 and 15, or whatever won't be great. We aren't getting a top 5 pick with a tank. The upside of a few spots isn't worth the effort of tanking and destroying the confidence of KP. A nice prospect would be nice but we should be getting that regardless, and we have to think of the big picture. Any progress is good progress. Winning more than 32 is that, even though its not looking like we are going to make a run at anything. A few higher slots in the draft will not change the trajectory of this team. We learned that in 2015. If we landed number 2 or 3, we wouldn't have KP.

I hate the whole tanking talk cause i can promise you that the players and coaches don't tank. Players aren't gonna go out and try to lose, it will never happen and coaches are trying to keep their jobs. The only people that are for tanking is the guys that don't play or coach and they aren't gonna ask/tell the team to go out and lose games so tank talk is worthless.

Chandler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:The Knicks should do what Hawks are doing. They should try and dump Rose if possible Melo too. Everyone else but some young players like KP, Willie and Kuz. Everyone else put be put out for picks. The team isn't going anywhere why are we so obsessed with playoffs games that ultimately will end with the Knicks getting their ass handed to them.

Let not kid ourselves let's just get assets from the draft and build a team of youth. Let's try and get the next great player through the draft to pair up with KP, Willie and Kuz. This isn't a good team at all. No defense no heart. Winning back to back games requires talent and a lot of heart. This not a mood swing this isn't a rant it's just reality of the situation which is dire.

Phil shouldn't mess around rack up as many assets as possible and take it from their. Not gonna win crap with the way this team is put together.

Jim Dolan believes that if you throw some vets in with melo we should be a 50 win team. I don't see them throwing in any towels. On the contrary I bet they are buyers The wilson chandlers and ken faried s of the world are out there. Yes it will cost 1 at rd picks but this is how we operate

There are maybe two players that can make it work with Melo and that is LeBron and the other is Paul. Anyone else doesn't help him get to 50 wins. That figure is mythical with Melo those days are long gone especially with him being a main cog.

That's ridiculous. There's many players you can put Melo with and they can win 50 games with one for sure being OKC and R.Westbrook. The only way you're gonna win with Melo is when he's not the leader or best player on the team and he knows he's not and until he can play with a player better than he is and admit to himself he's not better than that player and he's now the #2 player on that team he won't win anything more than a playoff berth.

this is kind of my thinking; along with the idea of don't let him make a lot of decisions.

biggest issue right now is our Defense. I would like to think that's fixable but lately i think i could step on the court (all 5'9" 53 years old) and score 15-20 against Knicks

There's been no bigger backer of Melo on this board or anywhere over the years than me and i will say loud and clear that we will not win anything significant with Melo on this team and being our #1 guy. I'm from Syracuse so my Melo fandom started there but i'm now convinced that if Melo wants to win a title he needs to play someplace else and he can't be the #1 guy on the team. I'm still a Melo fan and always will be but i'll also always be an even bigger New York Knicks fan and i'm ready to win more and compete for more. I think Phil might have to start playing dirty with Melo to get him to waive his NTC and even get Hornacek in on it with him by taking some minutes away from him and whatever else it takes to get him to waive it but i just don't think he's gonna do it right now. Maybe after two more years of mediocrity will do it cause he'll be 34 but we need him gone and to start putting different types of players around KP. I'm fine with Noah being around him cause he's a winner and carries a positive attitude and love a lot of these young guys we have. Even Rose can stay but Melo has to go.

franco12 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

callmened wrote:normally i would agree but theyve invested way too much in this melo, noah, rose core. it would be like admitting defeat - which theyll never do.

my goal with this squad is sneak into the playoffs with this flawed team. get kp playoff experience. rinse and repeat the next 2 yrs with rose and melo. once their contracts run out build around kp

This is exactly right. We can work with what we have, and build alongside KP at the same time. We will have a great opportunity to reset with some good young players before KP even hits his prime, if this is done correctly.

The Knicks have their pick this year I feel this is an opportunity to get very good quality player that will develop next to KP. I don't want the Knicks to pick in middle of the draft and not get the quality player they need to play with KP. Rose and Melo are proving they don't have what it takes to get the team to the next level and they are just good enough to have the Knick on the out looking in on the draft.

Playoffs aren't important right now because they are not going there to win anything.

But the difference in picks 10 and 15, or whatever won't be great. We aren't getting a top 5 pick with a tank. The upside of a few spots isn't worth the effort of tanking and destroying the confidence of KP. A nice prospect would be nice but we should be getting that regardless, and we have to think of the big picture. Any progress is good progress. Winning more than 32 is that, even though its not looking like we are going to make a run at anything. A few higher slots in the draft will not change the trajectory of this team. We learned that in 2015. If we landed number 2 or 3, we wouldn't have KP.

Not quite true. There is a big difference between 10 & 15:

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

35% of getting a star at 10. 10% at 15.

5% chance of a bust at 10, but 20% at 15 and a 5% chance that they never even play.

Don't let facts get in the way of your thinking....

Can you tell me which one of the Knicks high draft picks since 1986 have been stars?