If they can get back on track and stack some wins things should still work out well this season.

nyknickzingis wrote:To me it shows that Rose and Jennings have not added the impact we were hoping. Same with Noah.

KP has been better than last year.
Lee is an upgrade over Afflalo.
Our bench scoring is about the same if not better.

It comes down to defending and this team doesn't defend and plays too much 1 on 1 at times. Right now Jennings and Rose and Noah have not added the wins over Calderon, Gallo, Lopez.

We are better on offense there is no doubt about it. Much worse on defense. Part of it is that the Knicks just dont have the athleticism to play Hornacheks offensive plan. They play at a high pace and take more shots than almost any team but that means you got to run back and play a lot of defence at a fast break. When our defense isn't set we just don't have speed or athleticism to recover.

Fisher knew his rosters limitations better. Hornacheks system and coaching style as well as leadership all better than Fisher. However Horny is using a style I just can't see this team keep up in. We need to ask ourselves are Noah, Melo, Lee, Rose really capable to play in a high pace game or are they better off when the game slows down. I personally believe while on offense this team does better, defensively they would be much better positioned if they played slower halfcourt physical game.

Now I tend to look at us differently. I look at things based first on KPs development. Horny encourages the 3 ball and calls for KP to get the ball. Horny thinks KP can be one of the best players in the league. I like how KP looks in this style of game very well. From that perspective even though the season may end up a failure wins losses wise KP is a better player because of being in this kind of style and coaching and long term we will be rewarded for that. Also so what if we end up with 35 wins? At some point I even want us thinking of selling Rose and Jennings for future picks. If we aren't in the playoffs picture by Feb, I sell vets for picks or young assets and look to gain higher drafting position.

Get more athletic, better shooters, draft well in the lottery and transition to KPs team. I like Hornachek for another season. Phil too. We have some good pieces with that plus Willy, Kuz, Holiday and OQuinn.

+1

martin wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:To me it shows that Rose and Jennings have not added the impact we were hoping. Same with Noah.

KP has been better than last year.
Lee is an upgrade over Afflalo.
Our bench scoring is about the same if not better.

It comes down to defending and this team doesn't defend and plays too much 1 on 1 at times. Right now Jennings and Rose and Noah have not added the wins over Calderon, Gallo, Lopez.

We are better on offense there is no doubt about it. Much worse on defense. Part of it is that the Knicks just dont have the athleticism to play Hornacheks offensive plan. They play at a high pace and take more shots than almost any team but that means you got to run back and play a lot of defence at a fast break. When our defense isn't set we just don't have speed or athleticism to recover.

Fisher knew his rosters limitations better. Hornacheks system and coaching style as well as leadership all better than Fisher. However Horny is using a style I just can't see this team keep up in. We need to ask ourselves are Noah, Melo, Lee, Rose really capable to play in a high pace game or are they better off when the game slows down. I personally believe while on offense this team does better, defensively they would be much better positioned if they played slower halfcourt physical game.

Now I tend to look at us differently. I look at things based first on KPs development. Horny encourages the 3 ball and calls for KP to get the ball. Horny thinks KP can be one of the best players in the league. I like how KP looks in this style of game very well. From that perspective even though the season may end up a failure wins losses wise KP is a better player because of being in this kind of style and coaching and long term we will be rewarded for that. Also so what if we end up with 35 wins? At some point I even want us thinking of selling Rose and Jennings for future picks. If we aren't in the playoffs picture by Feb, I sell vets for picks or young assets and look to gain higher drafting position.

Get more athletic, better shooters, draft well in the lottery and transition to KPs team. I like Hornachek for another season. Phil too. We have some good pieces with that plus Willy, Kuz, Holiday and OQuinn.

+1

Yeah my focus is mainly on KP's development as well. I like us having one of the bright young stars in the league. As long as he develops on pace, it will be Unicorn vs Greek Freak in the east for a long time. Davis vs. Towns out west. The league should belong to these 4 guys in 5 years. We can live with the group we have now in the meantime, while adding young talent over the next few years. Draft correctly, sign young role players via free agency (i.e. O'Quinn) when they are available. This is how you build a team. No need to go all-in one direction or the other. Let the vets play out their late primes and build for the future simultaneously.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:To me it shows that Rose and Jennings have not added the impact we were hoping. Same with Noah.

KP has been better than last year.
Lee is an upgrade over Afflalo.
Our bench scoring is about the same if not better.

It comes down to defending and this team doesn't defend and plays too much 1 on 1 at times. Right now Jennings and Rose and Noah have not added the wins over Calderon, Gallo, Lopez.

We are better on offense there is no doubt about it. Much worse on defense. Part of it is that the Knicks just dont have the athleticism to play Hornacheks offensive plan. They play at a high pace and take more shots than almost any team but that means you got to run back and play a lot of defence at a fast break. When our defense isn't set we just don't have speed or athleticism to recover.

Fisher knew his rosters limitations better. Hornacheks system and coaching style as well as leadership all better than Fisher. However Horny is using a style I just can't see this team keep up in. We need to ask ourselves are Noah, Melo, Lee, Rose really capable to play in a high pace game or are they better off when the game slows down. I personally believe while on offense this team does better, defensively they would be much better positioned if they played slower halfcourt physical game.

Now I tend to look at us differently. I look at things based first on KPs development. Horny encourages the 3 ball and calls for KP to get the ball. Horny thinks KP can be one of the best players in the league. I like how KP looks in this style of game very well. From that perspective even though the season may end up a failure wins losses wise KP is a better player because of being in this kind of style and coaching and long term we will be rewarded for that. Also so what if we end up with 35 wins? At some point I even want us thinking of selling Rose and Jennings for future picks. If we aren't in the playoffs picture by Feb, I sell vets for picks or young assets and look to gain higher drafting position.

Get more athletic, better shooters, draft well in the lottery and transition to KPs team. I like Hornachek for another season. Phil too. We have some good pieces with that plus Willy, Kuz, Holiday and OQuinn.

+1

Yeah my focus is mainly on KP's development as well. I like us having one of the bright young stars in the league. As long as he develops on pace, it will be Unicorn vs Greek Freak in the east for a long time. Davis vs. Towns out west. The league should belong to these 4 guys in 5 years. We can live with the group we have now in the meantime, while adding young talent over the next few years. Draft correctly, sign young role players via free agency (i.e. O'Quinn) when they are available. This is how you build a team. No need to go all-in one direction or the other. Let the vets play out their late primes and build for the future simultaneously.

The only thing you develop is bad habits on a losing teams, that's why it takes longer for some young talent to develop into something-see Cousins, see melo-- if you don't believe this.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:To me it shows that Rose and Jennings have not added the impact we were hoping. Same with Noah.

KP has been better than last year.
Lee is an upgrade over Afflalo.
Our bench scoring is about the same if not better.

It comes down to defending and this team doesn't defend and plays too much 1 on 1 at times. Right now Jennings and Rose and Noah have not added the wins over Calderon, Gallo, Lopez.

We are better on offense there is no doubt about it. Much worse on defense. Part of it is that the Knicks just dont have the athleticism to play Hornacheks offensive plan. They play at a high pace and take more shots than almost any team but that means you got to run back and play a lot of defence at a fast break. When our defense isn't set we just don't have speed or athleticism to recover.

Fisher knew his rosters limitations better. Hornacheks system and coaching style as well as leadership all better than Fisher. However Horny is using a style I just can't see this team keep up in. We need to ask ourselves are Noah, Melo, Lee, Rose really capable to play in a high pace game or are they better off when the game slows down. I personally believe while on offense this team does better, defensively they would be much better positioned if they played slower halfcourt physical game.

Now I tend to look at us differently. I look at things based first on KPs development. Horny encourages the 3 ball and calls for KP to get the ball. Horny thinks KP can be one of the best players in the league. I like how KP looks in this style of game very well. From that perspective even though the season may end up a failure wins losses wise KP is a better player because of being in this kind of style and coaching and long term we will be rewarded for that. Also so what if we end up with 35 wins? At some point I even want us thinking of selling Rose and Jennings for future picks. If we aren't in the playoffs picture by Feb, I sell vets for picks or young assets and look to gain higher drafting position.

Get more athletic, better shooters, draft well in the lottery and transition to KPs team. I like Hornachek for another season. Phil too. We have some good pieces with that plus Willy, Kuz, Holiday and OQuinn.

+1

Yeah my focus is mainly on KP's development as well. I like us having one of the bright young stars in the league. As long as he develops on pace, it will be Unicorn vs Greek Freak in the east for a long time. Davis vs. Towns out west. The league should belong to these 4 guys in 5 years. We can live with the group we have now in the meantime, while adding young talent over the next few years. Draft correctly, sign young role players via free agency (i.e. O'Quinn) when they are available. This is how you build a team. No need to go all-in one direction or the other. Let the vets play out their late primes and build for the future simultaneously.

The only thing you develop is bad habits on a losing teams, that's why it takes longer for some young talent to develop into something-see Cousins, see melo-- if you don't believe this.

Which is why this team is better for KP's development. We might not be a good team, but trying to win and competing for a playoff spot matter for young players who are learning, even if we ultimately fall short.

nixluva wrote:Yeah Jeff's preference is to play more like MDA or GS. This team wasn't built to play that fast and is kind of schizophrenic with some players wanting to play more old school and others wanting to play in Jeff's style. What I'm hoping for is Jeff making the adjustments to allow the team to play the Ball n Player movement style more minutes of every game. Reduced minutes for guys that cause the team to get stagnant. He's gotta react faster when the players don't do what he wants.

Jeff's using size, and neither Golden State or MDA use much size. We kill teams on the glass on offense. We're not trying to play GS or MDA ball. We look to get KP at 4 in the post, or Melo at 3 in the post on mismatches. D'Antoni would never want that. Horny is a great mix of what old school ball was and what modern ball is. That's why I love his offense. We're about 12-13 in the league rating on offense. However we do need better athleticism. All of Phil Jackson's teams built around Kobe or Micheal Jordan were athletic and able to defend very well. This current Knicks team lacks the athleticism and speed to play that high pace and commit on defense. Although the last 2 games we have shown that we can if we go all out and if Horny gives more minutes to players who give more defensive effort like Lance Thomas and Ron Baker. However if we added more athletic players who could shoot from outside, it would go a long way in building a team around KP and Melo that could be able to play Horny's game plan to success.

I just don't think Rose will ever be the starting point guard in that type of team. His baskets and play is very one on one oriented. We already have two one on one players capable to score in Melo/KP. We need a point guard that is a leader on defense, can shoot from the outside and has good enough handles and speed that he can push the pace on offense when need be. We need another wing who is athletic and can shoot from outside. Two moves like that would go a long way for our defense and running Horny's game plan.