Nalod wrote:
Noel it would appear wants to start, prove his worth and earn that contract.
We have Noah and have made a commitment to. Is it right to bail on Noah after 25 games?
That commitment is also for him to move to a new city, not just financial. And As I have said before, we can't keep signing players and trade them.
As for Noel, I'll pass. We have other needs and I would not use a pick on someone we don't need.

Noel is something they do need because they do not have a versatile defensive big that can play big minutes. Noel is basically what most hoped Noah would be. I actually would like Noel studying behind Noah because Noel seems like he has a decent understanding of passing the ball for a center and then he gives you Blks, Stls, and finishing ability at the rim. Trading for Noel would be a measure of how much the FO believes in KOQ. Maybe this is prime Kyle or maybe his mid range shooting goes back down to normal and he turns into a quality back up big instead of a starting caliber big like he is playing this year. I also will add that it would also be a measure of confidence the FO has in Willy's ability to improve as a team defender similar to how Marc Gasol transformed himself into a quality defensive center when coming in he had similar issues as Willy. To Willy's credit he did a great job transforming his body earlier in career unlike Gasol who took a few years to get in great shape.

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Noel it would appear wants to start, prove his worth and earn that contract.
We have Noah and have made a commitment to. Is it right to bail on Noah after 25 games?
That commitment is also for him to move to a new city, not just financial. And As I have said before, we can't keep signing players and trade them.
As for Noel, I'll pass. We have other needs and I would not use a pick on someone we don't need.

Noel is something they do need because they do not have a versatile defensive big that can play big minutes. Noel is basically what most hoped Noah would be. I actually would like Noel studying behind Noah because Noel seems like he has a decent understanding of passing the ball for a center and then he gives you Blks, Stls, and finishing ability at the rim. Trading for Noel would be a measure of how much the FO believes in KOQ. Maybe this is prime Kyle or maybe his mid range shooting goes back down to normal and he turns into a quality back up big instead of a starting caliber big like he is playing this year. I also will add that it would also be a measure of confidence the FO has in Willy's ability to improve as a team defender similar to how Marc Gasol transformed himself into a quality defensive center when coming in he had similar issues as Willy. To Willy's credit he did a great job transforming his body earlier in career unlike Gasol who took a few years to get in great shape.

and when you watch Willy on defense one thing jumps out at me... he just needs reps. He banged with Dwight. He's got much more quickness than given credit for. His 7'2 wingspan is good. His dedication is there too, like KP, hoops runs in his family. Plus now he's got lilbro in the league also.

The only thing I would be looking at would be trying to combine KOQ/Holiday for another wing. I mentioned Will Chandler. I dont know what the story is Lance. When he hits the 3 hes a gem. But he's gotta score.. he just doesnt do enough other things. The defense is good but its not Ron Artest here.

Mostly I lean towards just staying pat and seeing how it grows.

Another target would be Ersan Ilyasova. I also would call about Lou Williams and Nick Young. Nick Young is JR smith 2.0 but he is actually playing lights out this year. Williams is also playing at an even higher level and would sure up the back court in case Rose or Jennings goes down or Jennings is sucking. I would be okay closing with Williams and Rose because Williams can shoot plus he gets to the line like a mini-Harden

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

dacash wrote:well if we continue , which i hope we do, on our pace we might pick between 16 and 30 , would ppl give that up for him , is he worth it in a maybe deep draft? could he grow next to kp6?

For a pick in that range, I'd give him a shot. Pretty sure playing in the same division would give Noel added incentive. Not sure Philly wants that though.

Pretty much the same philosophy behind the Bargnani trade.

Bargs was 6 years older than Noel at the time of the trade, very different players. The Bargs pick was tied up with Denver as well. Not a great comparision.

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Noel it would appear wants to start, prove his worth and earn that contract.
We have Noah and have made a commitment to. Is it right to bail on Noah after 25 games?
That commitment is also for him to move to a new city, not just financial. And As I have said before, we can't keep signing players and trade them.
As for Noel, I'll pass. We have other needs and I would not use a pick on someone we don't need.

Noel is something they do need because they do not have a versatile defensive big that can play big minutes. Noel is basically what most hoped Noah would be. I actually would like Noel studying behind Noah because Noel seems like he has a decent understanding of passing the ball for a center and then he gives you Blks, Stls, and finishing ability at the rim. Trading for Noel would be a measure of how much the FO believes in KOQ. Maybe this is prime Kyle or maybe his mid range shooting goes back down to normal and he turns into a quality back up big instead of a starting caliber big like he is playing this year. I also will add that it would also be a measure of confidence the FO has in Willy's ability to improve as a team defender similar to how Marc Gasol transformed himself into a quality defensive center when coming in he had similar issues as Willy. To Willy's credit he did a great job transforming his body earlier in career unlike Gasol who took a few years to get in great shape.

and when you watch Willy on defense one thing jumps out at me... he just needs reps. He banged with Dwight. He's got much more quickness than given credit for. His 7'2 wingspan is good. His dedication is there too, like KP, hoops runs in his family. Plus now he's got lilbro in the league also.

The only thing I would be looking at would be trying to combine KOQ/Holiday for another wing. I mentioned Will Chandler. I dont know what the story is Lance. When he hits the 3 hes a gem. But he's gotta score.. he just doesnt do enough other things. The defense is good but its not Ron Artest here.

Mostly I lean towards just staying pat and seeing how it grows.

Another target would be Ersan Ilyasova. I also would call about Lou Williams and Nick Young. Nick Young is JR smith 2.0 but he is actually playing lights out this year. Williams is also playing at an even higher level and would sure up the back court in case Rose or Jennings goes down or Jennings is sucking. I would be okay closing with Williams and Rose because Williams can shoot plus he gets to the line like a mini-Harden

I think we may have something similar in Kuz, but Ilya is more polished and established.

I would also look at Rubio at some point. He would be nice insurance when Jennings bolts for a hefty deal and not having his bird rights its hard to image us keeping him. This is a bit more future thinking and we could also move him if Jennings stayed long term, but I think Rubio might even play Jenning's role as well as Jennings plays it. Make plays, push and set guys up.

Just thinking outloud as they say

crzymdups wrote:I like Noel okay, but no way in hell do I trade a first rounder this year. This is a good draft. We need guards and wings, we got 4 good bigs - KP, Willy, KOQ, Noah, all young except Noah. We need wing depth and ideally someone who can create dribble penetration and get to the rim. Look at how much this team suffers if Rose is out.

Stop trading first round picks!

Yeah, and there's a lot of solid D and 3 type guards that will be available later in the first round.

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

dacash wrote:well if we continue , which i hope we do, on our pace we might pick between 16 and 30 , would ppl give that up for him , is he worth it in a maybe deep draft? could he grow next to kp6?

For a pick in that range, I'd give him a shot. Pretty sure playing in the same division would give Noel added incentive. Not sure Philly wants that though.

Pretty much the same philosophy behind the Bargnani trade.

Bargs was 6 years older than Noel at the time of the trade, very different players. The Bargs pick was tied up with Denver as well. Not a great comparision.

Not comparing the trades, I'm comparing the philosophy. We were willing to move the 1st round based on the expectation that we would be one of the better teams in the league and the pick wouldn't be very high. Things didn't work out and it ended up being a lottery pick.

Actually if you ask me Bargnani was more of a known entity than Noel is at this point. I'm against giving up a pick for Noel especially considering his market value is rock bottom and his contract is up and he can walk at the end of the year. And do you really want to lock him up long term at this point in his career based on what you've seen so far?

I say pass unless you can get him really, really cheap (i.e. a 2nd round pick and some trash). Philly is the one dealing from a position of weakness, not us.

That was their philosophy, not mine. Was thinking of a protected pick (if thats doable). Something the Knicks never seem to bargain for. I dont expect Noel to chip in right away. He needs to hit the gym, PT. He's as much of a prospect as the rooks.

Agree the one year remaining on his deal is a valid reason to pass. Not up on the CBA, if there was a way to do a sign and trade which would give Noel a Derrick Williams type deal, with the Knicks having a team option for the third year instead of William's player option, that would be ideal IMO. Give him the time to develop, if he shows something offer Noel a larger deal around the time KP's deal is up.

His market value might be at rock bottom. but so might his asking price as well. If Noel can get into shape and play the way he has shown he can, consistently, a low first round pick, might be a bargain.

All depends on wether or not he pans out. I can see the logic of your wanting to offer less, still might be worth the risk now that we have more picks in the pipeline.