holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:glad to see a thread on this. Rose reminded me of a damaged version of Stephon Marbury last night and in general. He was definitely looking to get his and definitely strapped handlebars onto this team in the process.

Rose took 8 shots in the first 3 quarters...He started the fourth quarter with the second unit so he was the scorer there...He had 10 shot attempts in the 4th quarter...He stepped up his shot output late in the when we were down 20+ where Melo and KP were clearly bricking it....He actually brought us back in the game a bit...I see no problem with what Rose is doing...

he's the biggest reason we were in the hole to begin with... if Jennings took all his minutes we'd have been better off

So he is the reason Melo and KP sleep walk through the game??..They were spent from the night before..

Rose scored a lot of his points last night when we were down 25 and we were just trading baskets with Washington. He was scoring, but we weren't making up much ground when he went on his run. When Jennings took over is when we got some stops and had the comeback. But i don't really care about socring in those situations. Rose is going to lead us in scoring once in awhile, mostly in losses, for the reasons we saw last night. He will get points, especially when no one else is scoring. He is also one of the reasons we are struggling defensively. The offense flows better and the defense is better with Jennings at the point. I don't think we should start Jennings over Rose because i don't want to ruin his vibe. He needs to know his role is safe. But his skillset is better utilized with the reserves and Jennings is better creating shots for Melo, KP, and even Noah, who will only score off ball movement. Hopefully Hornacek increases Jennings minutes a little so he spends more time with Melo and KP. But we will be a better team next year if Jennings is the starting PG, and we add a couple of volumes scorers off the bench in the summer, guys like Collison, who would be an ideal backup PG, and getting DWill back, who probably won't stay in Miami. This is assuming we don't land a major free agent of course.

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:glad to see a thread on this. Rose reminded me of a damaged version of Stephon Marbury last night and in general. He was definitely looking to get his and definitely strapped handlebars onto this team in the process.

Rose took 8 shots in the first 3 quarters...He started the fourth quarter with the second unit so he was the scorer there...He had 10 shot attempts in the 4th quarter...He stepped up his shot output late in the when we were down 20+ where Melo and KP were clearly bricking it....He actually brought us back in the game a bit...I see no problem with what Rose is doing...

I agree with Holfresh about last night's game. It's important for Rose to recognize when his scoring mates are off and step up to fill in for them. And it's equally important for him to hold back when Melo and KP have it going.

So far so good. Last night was just one of those games where the shooting was off. And that was likely due to fatigue.

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:glad to see a thread on this. Rose reminded me of a damaged version of Stephon Marbury last night and in general. He was definitely looking to get his and definitely strapped handlebars onto this team in the process.

Rose took 8 shots in the first 3 quarters...He started the fourth quarter with the second unit so he was the scorer there...He had 10 shot attempts in the 4th quarter...He stepped up his shot output late in the when we were down 20+ where Melo and KP were clearly bricking it....He actually brought us back in the game a bit...I see no problem with what Rose is doing...

he's the biggest reason we were in the hole to begin with... if Jennings took all his minutes we'd have been better off

So he is the reason Melo and KP sleep walk through the game??..They were spent from the night before..

I didn't say he was the ONLY reason, I said he was the biggest reason. again, I'd have liked our chances better if Jennings got Rose's minutes. I also hope that Rose ends up being better than Jennings... definitely better for us. But I am tired of watching Rose at the top of the key drive and throw up some prayer

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:glad to see a thread on this. Rose reminded me of a damaged version of Stephon Marbury last night and in general. He was definitely looking to get his and definitely strapped handlebars onto this team in the process.

Rose took 8 shots in the first 3 quarters...He started the fourth quarter with the second unit so he was the scorer there...He had 10 shot attempts in the 4th quarter...He stepped up his shot output late in the when we were down 20+ where Melo and KP were clearly bricking it....He actually brought us back in the game a bit...I see no problem with what Rose is doing...

he's the biggest reason we were in the hole to begin with... if Jennings took all his minutes we'd have been better off

So he is the reason Melo and KP sleep walk through the game??..They were spent from the night before..

Rose scored a lot of his points last night when we were down 25 and we were just trading baskets with Washington. He was scoring, but we weren't making up much ground when he went on his run. When Jennings took over is when we got some stops and had the comeback. But i don't really care about socring in those situations. Rose is going to lead us in scoring once in awhile, mostly in losses, for the reasons we saw last night. He will get points, especially when no one else is scoring. He is also one of the reasons we are struggling defensively. The offense flows better and the defense is better with Jennings at the point. I don't think we should start Jennings over Rose because i don't want to ruin his vibe. He needs to know his role is safe. But his skillset is better utilized with the reserves and Jennings is better creating shots for Melo, KP, and even Noah, who will only score off ball movement. Hopefully Hornacek increases Jennings minutes a little so he spends more time with Melo and KP. But we will be a better team next year if Jennings is the starting PG, and we add a couple of volumes scorers off the bench in the summer, guys like Collison, who would be an ideal backup PG, and getting DWill back, who probably won't stay in Miami. This is assuming we don't land a major free agent of course.

So if Rose is shooting when the Knicks are down by 25, why are you complaining about his shots...

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:glad to see a thread on this. Rose reminded me of a damaged version of Stephon Marbury last night and in general. He was definitely looking to get his and definitely strapped handlebars onto this team in the process.

Rose took 8 shots in the first 3 quarters...He started the fourth quarter with the second unit so he was the scorer there...He had 10 shot attempts in the 4th quarter...He stepped up his shot output late in the when we were down 20+ where Melo and KP were clearly bricking it....He actually brought us back in the game a bit...I see no problem with what Rose is doing...

he's the biggest reason we were in the hole to begin with... if Jennings took all his minutes we'd have been better off

So he is the reason Melo and KP sleep walk through the game??..They were spent from the night before..

Rose scored a lot of his points last night when we were down 25 and we were just trading baskets with Washington. He was scoring, but we weren't making up much ground when he went on his run. When Jennings took over is when we got some stops and had the comeback. But i don't really care about socring in those situations. Rose is going to lead us in scoring once in awhile, mostly in losses, for the reasons we saw last night. He will get points, especially when no one else is scoring. He is also one of the reasons we are struggling defensively. The offense flows better and the defense is better with Jennings at the point. I don't think we should start Jennings over Rose because i don't want to ruin his vibe. He needs to know his role is safe. But his skillset is better utilized with the reserves and Jennings is better creating shots for Melo, KP, and even Noah, who will only score off ball movement. Hopefully Hornacek increases Jennings minutes a little so he spends more time with Melo and KP. But we will be a better team next year if Jennings is the starting PG, and we add a couple of volumes scorers off the bench in the summer, guys like Collison, who would be an ideal backup PG, and getting DWill back, who probably won't stay in Miami. This is assuming we don't land a major free agent of course.

So if Rose is shooting when the Knicks are down by 25, why are you complaining about his shots...

I'm not complaining about his shots at all. I just think his skill-set is better utilized off the bench, and Jennings, who is a better playmaker and defender, is better with the starters, particularly Melo and Porzingis. Melo thrives off catch and shoot, and KP, being a big man, thrives with better overall playmaking. I think Rose is a great scorer, but poor distributor and defender. Would love his 16 ppg off the bench where the second unit really struggles to score. He would be unreal in a jamal crawford role, where he can just focus on scoring and anything else is a bonus. But i understand the need for him to stay in the starting lineup as long as he is here. I am not sure if he is ready to adjust to a 6th man role yet in his career. Keep the starting lineup the same, but play Jennings a lot with Melo and KP, and it will go a long way.

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:glad to see a thread on this. Rose reminded me of a damaged version of Stephon Marbury last night and in general. He was definitely looking to get his and definitely strapped handlebars onto this team in the process.

Rose took 8 shots in the first 3 quarters...He started the fourth quarter with the second unit so he was the scorer there...He had 10 shot attempts in the 4th quarter...He stepped up his shot output late in the when we were down 20+ where Melo and KP were clearly bricking it....He actually brought us back in the game a bit...I see no problem with what Rose is doing...

he's the biggest reason we were in the hole to begin with... if Jennings took all his minutes we'd have been better off

So he is the reason Melo and KP sleep walk through the game??..They were spent from the night before..

Rose scored a lot of his points last night when we were down 25 and we were just trading baskets with Washington. He was scoring, but we weren't making up much ground when he went on his run. When Jennings took over is when we got some stops and had the comeback. But i don't really care about socring in those situations. Rose is going to lead us in scoring once in awhile, mostly in losses, for the reasons we saw last night. He will get points, especially when no one else is scoring. He is also one of the reasons we are struggling defensively. The offense flows better and the defense is better with Jennings at the point. I don't think we should start Jennings over Rose because i don't want to ruin his vibe. He needs to know his role is safe. But his skillset is better utilized with the reserves and Jennings is better creating shots for Melo, KP, and even Noah, who will only score off ball movement. Hopefully Hornacek increases Jennings minutes a little so he spends more time with Melo and KP. But we will be a better team next year if Jennings is the starting PG, and we add a couple of volumes scorers off the bench in the summer, guys like Collison, who would be an ideal backup PG, and getting DWill back, who probably won't stay in Miami. This is assuming we don't land a major free agent of course.

So if Rose is shooting when the Knicks are down by 25, why are you complaining about his shots...

I'm not complaining about his shots at all. I just think his skill-set is better utilized off the bench, and Jennings, who is a better playmaker and defender, is better with the starters, particularly Melo and Porzingis. Melo thrives off catch and shoot, and KP, being a big man, thrives with better overall playmaking. I think Rose is a great scorer, but poor distributor and defender. Would love his 16 ppg off the bench where the second unit really struggles to score. He would be unreal in a jamal crawford role, where he can just focus on scoring and anything else is a bonus. But i understand the need for him to stay in the starting lineup as long as he is here. I am not sure if he is ready to adjust to a 6th man role yet in his career. Keep the starting lineup the same, but play Jennings a lot with Melo and KP, and it will go a long way.

Jennings is defending bench players..The starting team doesn't need a ball dominant PG...Melo brings the ball up alot and Noah does as well..Jenning excels in the transition which the first unit isn't...I couldn't disagree with you more...Melo needs other scorers next to him so he gets more one on one looks..And Jennings is good only if he doesn't shoot..No thanks..

I have watch too many years of the Knicks not having enough offense..I want to see the other side...I only wished we hire a defensive minded coach with this offense..

Rose is far more ball dominant than Jennings is. Jennings is a league average 3-point shooter and solid in catch-and-shoot situations. He can play off of Melo and KP much easier. He moves more without the ball too. Rose is as ball-dominant as they come. Jennings is a better defender too, now way around it. He would have kept Ish Smith and JJ barea in check much more than Rose. Rose is strictly a scoring guard at this point in his career. He and Melo are redundant in a lot of ways, whereas Jennings is unique to this team in every way. His weakness is his lack of efficiency as a scorer. But he can still catch fire in a hurry. I don't understand how you can say the starting team doesn't need a ball-dominant guard, when that is exactly what Rose is. He can't shoot or play off the ball. He doesn't move a ton without the ball. He is the definition of ball-dominant. He is tailor-made for a 6th man role on a good team.

Knixkik wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:glad to see a thread on this. Rose reminded me of a damaged version of Stephon Marbury last night and in general. He was definitely looking to get his and definitely strapped handlebars onto this team in the process.

Rose took 8 shots in the first 3 quarters...He started the fourth quarter with the second unit so he was the scorer there...He had 10 shot attempts in the 4th quarter...He stepped up his shot output late in the when we were down 20+ where Melo and KP were clearly bricking it....He actually brought us back in the game a bit...I see no problem with what Rose is doing...

he's the biggest reason we were in the hole to begin with... if Jennings took all his minutes we'd have been better off

So he is the reason Melo and KP sleep walk through the game??..They were spent from the night before..

Rose scored a lot of his points last night when we were down 25 and we were just trading baskets with Washington. He was scoring, but we weren't making up much ground when he went on his run. When Jennings took over is when we got some stops and had the comeback. But i don't really care about socring in those situations. Rose is going to lead us in scoring once in awhile, mostly in losses, for the reasons we saw last night. He will get points, especially when no one else is scoring. He is also one of the reasons we are struggling defensively. The offense flows better and the defense is better with Jennings at the point. I don't think we should start Jennings over Rose because i don't want to ruin his vibe. He needs to know his role is safe. But his skillset is better utilized with the reserves and Jennings is better creating shots for Melo, KP, and even Noah, who will only score off ball movement. Hopefully Hornacek increases Jennings minutes a little so he spends more time with Melo and KP. But we will be a better team next year if Jennings is the starting PG, and we add a couple of volumes scorers off the bench in the summer, guys like Collison, who would be an ideal backup PG, and getting DWill back, who probably won't stay in Miami. This is assuming we don't land a major free agent of course.

So if Rose is shooting when the Knicks are down by 25, why are you complaining about his shots...

I'm not complaining about his shots at all. I just think his skill-set is better utilized off the bench, and Jennings, who is a better playmaker and defender, is better with the starters, particularly Melo and Porzingis. Melo thrives off catch and shoot, and KP, being a big man, thrives with better overall playmaking. I think Rose is a great scorer, but poor distributor and defender. Would love his 16 ppg off the bench where the second unit really struggles to score. He would be unreal in a jamal crawford role, where he can just focus on scoring and anything else is a bonus. But i understand the need for him to stay in the starting lineup as long as he is here. I am not sure if he is ready to adjust to a 6th man role yet in his career. Keep the starting lineup the same, but play Jennings a lot with Melo and KP, and it will go a long way.

Jennings is defending bench players..The starting team doesn't need a ball dominant PG...Melo brings the ball up alot and Noah does as well..Jenning excels in the transition which the first unit isn't...I couldn't disagree with you more...Melo needs other scorers next to him so he gets more one on one looks..And Jennings is good only if he doesn't shoot..No thanks..

I have watch too many years of the Knicks not having enough offense..I want to see the other side...I only wished we hire a defensive minded coach with this offense..

Rose is far more ball dominant than Jennings is. Jennings is a league average 3-point shooter and solid in catch-and-shoot situations. He can play off of Melo and KP much easier. He moves more without the ball too. Rose is as ball-dominant as they come. Jennings is a better defender too, now way around it. He would have kept Ish Smith and JJ barea in check much more than Rose. Rose is strictly a scoring guard at this point in his career. He and Melo are redundant in a lot of ways, whereas Jennings is unique to this team in every way. His weakness is his lack of efficiency as a scorer. But he can still catch fire in a hurry. I don't understand how you can say the starting team doesn't need a ball-dominant guard, when that is exactly what Rose is. He can't shoot or play off the ball. He doesn't move a ton without the ball. He is the definition of ball-dominant. He is tailor-made for a 6th man role on a good team.

And i don't dislike Rose at all. I just think we are trying to turn him into something that he's not. He's not a complimentary player or playmaker. Jennings is a playmaker and is better suited for this particular group. He can still provide offense too. He has scored just as much as Rose as a starter, with similar efficiency in the last few years. We forget he was averaging close to 20 ppg. He is a good ball player. Hopefully Rose can adjust his game and become more of a fit, i am definitely hoping it can happen.

Rose can get to the rim at will..When he gets his legs he will be way more efficient and dangerous...I have seen Melo and KP offense, led us to 32 wins last year...Rose currently shoots 44% while Jennings is at 38%..And Jennings value is if he doesn't shoot...

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:glad to see a thread on this. Rose reminded me of a damaged version of Stephon Marbury last night and in general. He was definitely looking to get his and definitely strapped handlebars onto this team in the process.

Rose took 8 shots in the first 3 quarters...He started the fourth quarter with the second unit so he was the scorer there...He had 10 shot attempts in the 4th quarter...He stepped up his shot output late in the when we were down 20+ where Melo and KP were clearly bricking it....He actually brought us back in the game a bit...I see no problem with what Rose is doing...

he's the biggest reason we were in the hole to begin with... if Jennings took all his minutes we'd have been better off

So he is the reason Melo and KP sleep walk through the game??..They were spent from the night before..

Rose scored a lot of his points last night when we were down 25 and we were just trading baskets with Washington. He was scoring, but we weren't making up much ground when he went on his run. When Jennings took over is when we got some stops and had the comeback. But i don't really care about socring in those situations. Rose is going to lead us in scoring once in awhile, mostly in losses, for the reasons we saw last night. He will get points, especially when no one else is scoring. He is also one of the reasons we are struggling defensively. The offense flows better and the defense is better with Jennings at the point. I don't think we should start Jennings over Rose because i don't want to ruin his vibe. He needs to know his role is safe. But his skillset is better utilized with the reserves and Jennings is better creating shots for Melo, KP, and even Noah, who will only score off ball movement. Hopefully Hornacek increases Jennings minutes a little so he spends more time with Melo and KP. But we will be a better team next year if Jennings is the starting PG, and we add a couple of volumes scorers off the bench in the summer, guys like Collison, who would be an ideal backup PG, and getting DWill back, who probably won't stay in Miami. This is assuming we don't land a major free agent of course.

So if Rose is shooting when the Knicks are down by 25, why are you complaining about his shots...

I'm not complaining about his shots at all. I just think his skill-set is better utilized off the bench, and Jennings, who is a better playmaker and defender, is better with the starters, particularly Melo and Porzingis. Melo thrives off catch and shoot, and KP, being a big man, thrives with better overall playmaking. I think Rose is a great scorer, but poor distributor and defender. Would love his 16 ppg off the bench where the second unit really struggles to score. He would be unreal in a jamal crawford role, where he can just focus on scoring and anything else is a bonus. But i understand the need for him to stay in the starting lineup as long as he is here. I am not sure if he is ready to adjust to a 6th man role yet in his career. Keep the starting lineup the same, but play Jennings a lot with Melo and KP, and it will go a long way.

Jennings is defending bench players..The starting team doesn't need a ball dominant PG...Melo brings the ball up alot and Noah does as well..Jenning excels in the transition which the first unit isn't...I couldn't disagree with you more...Melo needs other scorers next to him so he gets more one on one looks..And Jennings is good only if he doesn't shoot..No thanks..

I have watch too many years of the Knicks not having enough offense..I want to see the other side...I only wished we hire a defensive minded coach with this offense..

Rose is far more ball dominant than Jennings is. Jennings is a league average 3-point shooter and solid in catch-and-shoot situations. He can play off of Melo and KP much easier. He moves more without the ball too. Rose is as ball-dominant as they come. Jennings is a better defender too, now way around it. He would have kept Ish Smith and JJ barea in check much more than Rose. Rose is strictly a scoring guard at this point in his career. He and Melo are redundant in a lot of ways, whereas Jennings is unique to this team in every way. His weakness is his lack of efficiency as a scorer. But he can still catch fire in a hurry. I don't understand how you can say the starting team doesn't need a ball-dominant guard, when that is exactly what Rose is. He can't shoot or play off the ball. He doesn't move a ton without the ball. He is the definition of ball-dominant. He is tailor-made for a 6th man role on a good team.

And i don't dislike Rose at all. I just think we are trying to turn him into something that he's not. He's not a complimentary player or playmaker. Jennings is a playmaker and is better suited for this particular group. He can still provide offense too. He has scored just as much as Rose as a starter, with similar efficiency in the last few years. We forget he was averaging close to 20 ppg. He is a good ball player. Hopefully Rose can adjust his game and become more of a fit, i am definitely hoping it can happen.

Rose can get to the rim at will..When he gets his legs he will be way more efficient and dangerous...I have seen Melo and KP offense, led us to 32 wins last year...Rose currently shoots 44% while Jennings is at 38%..And Jennings value is if he doesn't shoot...

One more thing..I have never seen Melo get this much one on one coverage...Never as a Knick..He is missing some very easy looks at the basket...The problem with the team isn't offense..Phil should have hired a defensive coach and stayed out of it...Rose will figure his way between Melo and KP, we are 12 games in...Lee isn't even in the mix yet..Our defense is the issue...

SupremeCommander wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

holfresh wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:glad to see a thread on this. Rose reminded me of a damaged version of Stephon Marbury last night and in general. He was definitely looking to get his and definitely strapped handlebars onto this team in the process.

Rose took 8 shots in the first 3 quarters...He started the fourth quarter with the second unit so he was the scorer there...He had 10 shot attempts in the 4th quarter...He stepped up his shot output late in the when we were down 20+ where Melo and KP were clearly bricking it....He actually brought us back in the game a bit...I see no problem with what Rose is doing...

he's the biggest reason we were in the hole to begin with... if Jennings took all his minutes we'd have been better off

So he is the reason Melo and KP sleep walk through the game??..They were spent from the night before..

I didn't say he was the ONLY reason, I said he was the biggest reason. again, I'd have liked our chances better if Jennings got Rose's minutes. I also hope that Rose ends up being better than Jennings... definitely better for us. But I am tired of watching Rose at the top of the key drive and throw up some prayer

I don't think the starting team needs a ball dominant PG...Especially one who can't shoot or score...Jennings excels in transition creating for others at this moment in time..The starters are more of a half court team especially with Melo and Noah..Melo needs the ball in post up, KP is now just beginning to post up, Noah is at the top of the key looking for cutters..How does Jennings fit in all this...I think when Rose gets comfortable and start cutting off Melo and KP post, the offense can be more dynamic..I want to see Lee flashing in the lane too..I think you guys are a little short sighted on what Rose can bring to the offense...

All I know is the Knicks "play the right way" when Jennings is in and do the opposite when he's out. Maybe Rose should've come off the bench until he learned to play with everyone

I think this is why jennings has been better. Completely agree.