nyknickzingis wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:After 22-22 the team last year couldn't compete and it showed. We finished 10-28 to close the season. Many say Noah and DRose were not good moves, yet we are much better than the 10-28 finish this team had. The dribble penetrations and guard skill on this team has helped KP so much. That's why he credits his teammates. He knows he wasn't getting these looks with Galloway, Grant or Calderon last year. And Lopez was a very solid player but most effective as a screen setter or post up player. Noah is like a point guard out there looks to pass the ball and set up his teammates. Again another vet who would facilitate KP.

Its not about getting looks.... Kristaps was taking his own looks last night

Kristaps frequency of isolating is very low. He's a team ball player. He's a big guy. He's got great shooting guard skills for a player his size, but Jennings and Rose have helped him. Now that the Knicks have guards that can actually be a threat to penetrate a defense, teams leave Kris on screen sets and give him space. If we had the same guards as last year, Kris would still be a better player and doing damage but he would be less effective because teams could stick a guy on him at all times, knowing the guards won't be a threat on drives. I saw a lot of that last year. Nowitzki used to drive teams crazy with Jason Terry, Steve Nash, Nick Van Excel, Jason Kidd. We haven't gotten KP a truly great guard who can shoot, pass and drive (Our 2 PGs can drive and pass but not shooting threats off screens) but what we do have is major improvement.

He can make a living now off screen setting up high and just his own motion or movement in the offense. It's fantastic to watch. The game is so much more open now for him. Hornachek, the point guards, is what this kid needed. Not saying he hasn't shown he can create baskets himself, obviously he has improved there as well. I can only imagine what this kid could do with a point guard like Stephen Curry. If Kris sets up high with Curry, I know Curry has a fantastic thing in Golden State, but together they would be unbelievably tough to defend.

Rose has helped and so has Jennings, but they can't shoot. So when Kris sets screens they can't maximize that play like a point guard who could shoot could.

I have hope that both Rose and BJ can improve their shooting a bit. Right now they are really struggling and I don't suspect that will be the case for the entire season. There may come a stretch where either of them can get their shot going a bit better. I'm not looking for magical improvement just a reasonable improvement that is normal to expect over the course of a season. Many players go thru cold streaks. Especially guys that aren't pure shooters. They both can shoot better than they have so far tho.

joec32033 wrote:

Nalod wrote:The unicorn is learning to spread his wings.
Patience, the kid is getting his nasty.

Awesome. Not only is the kid a mythical creature, but he is now a FLYING mythical creature. Will the expectations ever cease?

On a side note, Lebron wants to know why Durant called Kris a unicorn to begin with. Unicorns are generally seen as white. Is it this a race thing? Also, unicorns are generally seen as a more feminine animal. Kris is a Euro who are also sterotyped as soft in the NBA. Was Durant calling him one of a kind, or were we all wrong and Durant was just calling him a soft, white basketball player?
-the preceeding comment was said in jest and by no means reflects the attitude of all black, white, or any other race of player, poster, human being-living or deceased- here to for associated with the NBA, Ultimateknicks.com, or any of the said propertie's ownership group.....er...posse.....er...stable...er business associates....er...ownership thingy.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

franco12 wrote:not trying to rain (or reign in) anyone's parade - it was one game and I think the match up played well to KP, esp. in the first half.

That said, last night you could definitely see what Phil has been trying to do, and some of the parts started to click together.

Before we get ahead of ourselves, lets see if KP can have some more games with a positive impact.

Tend to agree with the first part. Have to say, though, that with the exception of that one poor game, he has been getting consistent points with some decent efficiency. There have many been games where he does not show signs of dominance like yesterday, but still puts up good numbers when you look at his post-game totals.

I tend to be cautiously optimistic, but so far you can see some significant improvement on offense from KP.

I still want to see some more polished moves in the post, and I am annoyed with him losing focus on D because he is so concerned about protecting the basket, but you can't help but be excited with what we are see from him.

knicks1248 wrote:It's funny how KP rarely passes the ball, yet Amare who got killed for playing the same way

Good point.....But.....Did Amari get killed for not passing or not producing? Because if you are scoring buckets, nobody looks at whether he passes or not. But when you are a scorer and you are struggling to score, everybody points to the lack of passes. It's a catch 22

EnySpree wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:After 22-22 the team last year couldn't compete and it showed. We finished 10-28 to close the season. Many say Noah and DRose were not good moves, yet we are much better than the 10-28 finish this team had. The dribble penetrations and guard skill on this team has helped KP so much. That's why he credits his teammates. He knows he wasn't getting these looks with Galloway, Grant or Calderon last year. And Lopez was a very solid player but most effective as a screen setter or post up player. Noah is like a point guard out there looks to pass the ball and set up his teammates. Again another vet who would facilitate KP.

Its not about getting looks.... Kristaps was taking his own looks last night

Well you need those easy buckets to get over 30 pts. It's all part of getting into a groove. Don't dismiss that fact that KP can't be focused on by any defense with so much talent around him. The ball and player movement is opening up so many great scoring opportunities. KP has developed his handle and can't be stopped one on one. Those looks are coming from the space created by having better guards around him.

Jeff is effectively spreading teams out and with the better spacing and guards that can penetrate there's no way that teams can stop KP. That's what nyknickzingis is saying.

The two buckets that Rose got late in the 4th were critical in regards to your comment in bold. He was totally alone from 8-9 feet away for an easy toss in. You really need the 3rd scorer and Rose looks great in that role.

That particular play excited me because up until that point I forgot Rose was out there. If Rose is the 3rd option my God.... we will have a hell of a team once they really gel

The key is excepting that 3rd scoring role! Will Rose buy in? He's already behind Melo and after last nights 35 from KP, he might be willing to take on that role. The question is, does he know how to be a 3rd go to option, since he's been #1 since middle school.

blkexec wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:After 22-22 the team last year couldn't compete and it showed. We finished 10-28 to close the season. Many say Noah and DRose were not good moves, yet we are much better than the 10-28 finish this team had. The dribble penetrations and guard skill on this team has helped KP so much. That's why he credits his teammates. He knows he wasn't getting these looks with Galloway, Grant or Calderon last year. And Lopez was a very solid player but most effective as a screen setter or post up player. Noah is like a point guard out there looks to pass the ball and set up his teammates. Again another vet who would facilitate KP.

Its not about getting looks.... Kristaps was taking his own looks last night

Well you need those easy buckets to get over 30 pts. It's all part of getting into a groove. Don't dismiss that fact that KP can't be focused on by any defense with so much talent around him. The ball and player movement is opening up so many great scoring opportunities. KP has developed his handle and can't be stopped one on one. Those looks are coming from the space created by having better guards around him.

Jeff is effectively spreading teams out and with the better spacing and guards that can penetrate there's no way that teams can stop KP. That's what nyknickzingis is saying.

The two buckets that Rose got late in the 4th were critical in regards to your comment in bold. He was totally alone from 8-9 feet away for an easy toss in. You really need the 3rd scorer and Rose looks great in that role.

That particular play excited me because up until that point I forgot Rose was out there. If Rose is the 3rd option my God.... we will have a hell of a team once they really gel

The key is excepting that 3rd scoring role! Will Rose buy in? He's already behind Melo and after last nights 35 from KP, he might be willing to take on that role. The question is, does he know how to be a 3rd go to option, since he's been #1 since middle school.

Every nba player has been the #1 at one point. Most have been #1 up until they get to the nba. Rose will adjust. He's already being submissive in his interviews. I think he gets it

That said, I think we're getting too enthusiastic about him. He still takes tougher shots than I'd like (hits a decent %, and last night a great %), but I'm still waiting for him to figure out how to get better looks. His post-up game seems to be coming around. Using good footwork and his size to get some nice looks while staying on balance. But I still think he rushes his catch and shoots. Always feel he has a little more time than he realizes. Confident he will figure it out. Great attitude and work ethic. But I'm not expecting him to get it all this season.

EnySpree wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's funny how KP rarely passes the ball, yet Amare who got killed for playing the same way

If anything I think KP passes too much. He's always passing away shots and passing up opportunities to take his man. Last night was the first time he showed signs of being that #1 guy

I don't see him getting a ton of assist opportunities, but he does pass the ball around, many times without even looking for his shot.

He rode a hot hand yesterday...If you see him going 6/20 with 6 TOs and no assists on a regular basis...then you have to worry.

blkexec wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's funny how KP rarely passes the ball, yet Amare who got killed for playing the same way

Good point.....But.....Did Amari get killed for not passing or not producing? Because if you are scoring buckets, nobody looks at whether he passes or not. But when you are a scorer and you are struggling to score, everybody points to the lack of passes. It's a catch 22

True, but once melo got here, it was the end of amare's touches and when he did get the ball, he wasn't passing it.

bernard wrote:Was at the game last night. Really fun. They played very well. Got some bad breaks with unlucky bounces leading to open Piston looks, but played through it and were strong on both ends. KP, obviously, was unreal.

That said, I think we're getting too enthusiastic about him. He still takes tougher shots than I'd like (hits a decent %, and last night a great %), but I'm still waiting for him to figure out how to get better looks. His post-up game seems to be coming around. Using good footwork and his size to get some nice looks while staying on balance. But I still think he rushes his catch and shoots. Always feel he has a little more time than he realizes. Confident he will figure it out. Great attitude and work ethic. But I'm not expecting him to get it all this season.

I agree, have to remember fans get pumped and project whats in front of them.
But no doubt its a good thing!!

We ain't talking no white fluffy unicorn,
The nasty will come out at some point. Melo won't teach him this. Maybe if KG was on the team he could
but for now this kid has to get a taste of dominance and then decide if he likes it or not. If so, then he goes to the dark side.
This is where Kobe and Jordan existed, not Lebron or Melo. These are nice guys.
KP need not be a dyck about things, just taste dominance and then fuel it.

BRIGGS wrote:We need to keep KP around 30 minutes. I cant justify riding him 40 minutes. Tonight they need to keep him at 26-27 max. He took a whack last night on that alley oop hes going to be hurting this am. This is a slog not a sprint--we need to keep CA and KP closer to 30 minutes.

That said what a great player

Yup. I suspect Hornacek going to have to ride him to keep his job and yet simply because it increases his odds of getting hurt and losing out on development time, it should be his job to limit KP's minutes. I'd be happy to see the Knicks give up, oh, a half-dozen games this year if reducing his time to, say, 27-28 minutes can be done. Phil's job is to protect Hornacek to protect KP.

I don't remember the exact stats but there were several interesting papers recently on the relationship of minutes over 30 and back-to-back games on injuries. The clear upshot, if I remember correctly, is that it's simply not worth it to average more than 30 some minutes and/or play every back-to-back. Arguably, teams like GS and SAS are better, in part, because they limit minutes and/or back-to-backs. Obviously, it's best to play your best players over short series of games, like the playoffs, but over a whole season, you win a few more games if you keep your best players healthy and you keep them healthy by reducing minutes.

And, yeah, a great player. I keep forgetting that he's _21_.