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Rose and the Triangle (Attention: Nix (!) . . .)
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fishmike
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9/30/2016  4:30 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't see this as a Triangle dis-thread. I see it as a factual disproof of an assumption that has been used to skew many arguments om this board for the entire offseason. That assumption has been that there will be no learning curve because Thibodeau uses the triangle so that both Rose and Noah are already familiar.

That assertion is factually inaccurate because Rose verbatim says "its complicated because it is new to us. It is foreign".

So, while you can argue that Rose and Noah are going to gel better than Gary Payton and Karl Malone did in LA, you cannot say it is a non issue because they already know triangle. Rose does not.

All evidence indicates there is a learning curve.

Thank you . . .
Let me simply say this. If a new coach comes in and there isn't a learning curve, that coach sucks. Unless you are from the Mike DAntoni school of coaching which runs 2 plays:
1) cmon cmon cmon!!!!
and of course our favorite
2) lets go lets go lets go!

So yea... The NEW coach, is going to be teaching the players a NEW system. Based on prior experience some may have some experience some may not.

When we are 15 games in or so and our record stinks and our PGs are playing like they don't know what to do lets chat then. This whole thread is based on a one line comment after the 2nd day of training camp. Then we get a thread jumping on Nix saying SEE!!!! I TOLD YOU!!!!

Sheesh.

Sigh.

That learning curve played a big part in us being one of the worst teams in the league the last few seasons. The Triangle isnt easy to learn, never has never been. All EwingsGlass is saying is that this issue remains. To what degree with Hornacek blending in more familiar schemes, remains to be seen. Not really sigh worthy IMO.

It did? Weren't we pretty good last year before Melo got hurt? We were .500 at the halfway point after a 17 win season... And the year before that we were bad because of the triangle? Or because Langston Galloway was the best player?

2 days into a new coach's training camp and folks are voicing concerns over the system and player's ability to grasp it? 1000% sigh worthy.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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GustavBahler
Posts: 42864
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9/30/2016  4:46 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/30/2016  4:47 PM
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't see this as a Triangle dis-thread. I see it as a factual disproof of an assumption that has been used to skew many arguments om this board for the entire offseason. That assumption has been that there will be no learning curve because Thibodeau uses the triangle so that both Rose and Noah are already familiar.

That assertion is factually inaccurate because Rose verbatim says "its complicated because it is new to us. It is foreign".

So, while you can argue that Rose and Noah are going to gel better than Gary Payton and Karl Malone did in LA, you cannot say it is a non issue because they already know triangle. Rose does not.

All evidence indicates there is a learning curve.

Thank you . . .
Let me simply say this. If a new coach comes in and there isn't a learning curve, that coach sucks. Unless you are from the Mike DAntoni school of coaching which runs 2 plays:
1) cmon cmon cmon!!!!
and of course our favorite
2) lets go lets go lets go!

So yea... The NEW coach, is going to be teaching the players a NEW system. Based on prior experience some may have some experience some may not.

When we are 15 games in or so and our record stinks and our PGs are playing like they don't know what to do lets chat then. This whole thread is based on a one line comment after the 2nd day of training camp. Then we get a thread jumping on Nix saying SEE!!!! I TOLD YOU!!!!

Sheesh.

Sigh.

That learning curve played a big part in us being one of the worst teams in the league the last few seasons. The Triangle isnt easy to learn, never has never been. All EwingsGlass is saying is that this issue remains. To what degree with Hornacek blending in more familiar schemes, remains to be seen. Not really sigh worthy IMO.

It did? Weren't we pretty good last year before Melo got hurt? We were .500 at the halfway point after a 17 win season... And the year before that we were bad because of the triangle? Or because Langston Galloway was the best player?

2 days into a new coach's training camp and folks are voicing concerns over the system and player's ability to grasp it? 1000% sigh worthy.

I got a full clip of Al Gore sighs, don't make me use them! Didn't we hit .500 when Fisher started running more P&R? Cant remember exactly. Im pretty sure if we ran a more traditional offense from the start our record would have been better. Wouldn't have KP on the team, so it worked out for the best.


There is less of a margin for error this season because this team was built from the start to go deep in the playoffs, this isnt a get to know the Triangle kind of year. I didnt see anything in what EG wrote that suggested that it was "game over".

EwingsGlass
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9/30/2016  7:32 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't see this as a Triangle dis-thread. I see it as a factual disproof of an assumption that has been used to skew many arguments om this board for the entire offseason. That assumption has been that there will be no learning curve because Thibodeau uses the triangle so that both Rose and Noah are already familiar.

That assertion is factually inaccurate because Rose verbatim says "its complicated because it is new to us. It is foreign".

So, while you can argue that Rose and Noah are going to gel better than Gary Payton and Karl Malone did in LA, you cannot say it is a non issue because they already know triangle. Rose does not.

All evidence indicates there is a learning curve.

Thank you . . .
Let me simply say this. If a new coach comes in and there isn't a learning curve, that coach sucks. Unless you are from the Mike DAntoni school of coaching which runs 2 plays:
1) cmon cmon cmon!!!!
and of course our favorite
2) lets go lets go lets go!

So yea... The NEW coach, is going to be teaching the players a NEW system. Based on prior experience some may have some experience some may not.

When we are 15 games in or so and our record stinks and our PGs are playing like they don't know what to do lets chat then. This whole thread is based on a one line comment after the 2nd day of training camp. Then we get a thread jumping on Nix saying SEE!!!! I TOLD YOU!!!!

Sheesh.

Sigh.

That learning curve played a big part in us being one of the worst teams in the league the last few seasons. The Triangle isnt easy to learn, never has never been. All EwingsGlass is saying is that this issue remains. To what degree with Hornacek blending in more familiar schemes, remains to be seen. Not really sigh worthy IMO.

It did? Weren't we pretty good last year before Melo got hurt? We were .500 at the halfway point after a 17 win season... And the year before that we were bad because of the triangle? Or because Langston Galloway was the best player?

2 days into a new coach's training camp and folks are voicing concerns over the system and player's ability to grasp it? 1000% sigh worthy.

I got a full clip of Al Gore sighs, don't make me use them! Didn't we hit .500 when Fisher started running more P&R? Cant remember exactly. Im pretty sure if we ran a more traditional offense from the start our record would have been better. Wouldn't have KP on the team, so it worked out for the best.


There is less of a margin for error this season because this team was built from the start to go deep in the playoffs, this isnt a get to know the Triangle kind of year. I didnt see anything in what EG wrote that suggested that it was "game over".

I

II think Phil has been clear that this is a process. He is creating institutional knowledge of the ttriangle. I'm hopeful they put it all together and stay healthy. I cautiously optimistic. I am concerned that it will take too long this year to put it all together. Meanwhile, teams like GS are dynamic. Championship is the goal. But more building blocks is fine also.

You know I gonna spin wit it
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
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Member: #397

9/30/2016  7:47 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't see this as a Triangle dis-thread. I see it as a factual disproof of an assumption that has been used to skew many arguments om this board for the entire offseason. That assumption has been that there will be no learning curve because Thibodeau uses the triangle so that both Rose and Noah are already familiar.

That assertion is factually inaccurate because Rose verbatim says "its complicated because it is new to us. It is foreign".

So, while you can argue that Rose and Noah are going to gel better than Gary Payton and Karl Malone did in LA, you cannot say it is a non issue because they already know triangle. Rose does not.

All evidence indicates there is a learning curve.

Thank you . . .
Let me simply say this. If a new coach comes in and there isn't a learning curve, that coach sucks. Unless you are from the Mike DAntoni school of coaching which runs 2 plays:
1) cmon cmon cmon!!!!
and of course our favorite
2) lets go lets go lets go!

So yea... The NEW coach, is going to be teaching the players a NEW system. Based on prior experience some may have some experience some may not.

When we are 15 games in or so and our record stinks and our PGs are playing like they don't know what to do lets chat then. This whole thread is based on a one line comment after the 2nd day of training camp. Then we get a thread jumping on Nix saying SEE!!!! I TOLD YOU!!!!

Sheesh.

Sigh.

That learning curve played a big part in us being one of the worst teams in the league the last few seasons. The Triangle isnt easy to learn, never has never been. All EwingsGlass is saying is that this issue remains. To what degree with Hornacek blending in more familiar schemes, remains to be seen. Not really sigh worthy IMO.

I don't want to get into what you think he's saying. What he is saying is he wants to crucify nixluva over a passing comment. Premeditated whining in the 1st degree

No one whines about other posters on this board more than you do, there isn't even a close second.

I might whine alot about other posters but it's within good reason based on actual stupidity, ignorance, trolling and everything associated.

About nixluva... those same posters that attack him everyday are the ones I whine about. Which brings me to this question. Why is it OK to come continue to badger nixluva but not ok to give it back to other posters?

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Malcolm
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9/30/2016  7:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/30/2016  10:12 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:I think Phil has been clear that this is a process. He is creating institutional knowledge of the triangle. I'm hopeful they put it all together and stay healthy. I cautiously optimistic.
I am concerned that it will take too long this year to put it all together.
Meanwhile, teams like GS are dynamic. Championship is the goal. But more building blocks is fine also.
My own main concern is that they won't stay the course and learn the Triangle properly.

Winning isn't the top priority for me.

Instead, I just want to see some of the effortless (seeming), flowing beauty of Triangle games again.

And if we get that consistently enough, we'll also get plenty of winning -- not to worry.

I'm satisfied with Noah (although I really hated, like Phil Jackson, to lose Lopez).

Lee and Jennings seem like identifiable pieces for a successful Triangle team.

I was sorry to lose Williams as he sort of fit the (informal) requirement of having
one talented, but sort of spaced out player on a Triangle team.

Rose is the player I'm least convinced about.

I don't see that he's ever had a Triangle skill set.

Worse . . . he doesn't seem to have much of a Triangle mind set, either.

I hope Jackson can pull some of his motivational magic on him . . .

EnySpree
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9/30/2016  7:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/30/2016  8:00 PM
From what Rose and Horny was saying I get the impression that the Knicks will definitely open up the offense with more Point guard friendly stuff. They want KP to run. They also want him to trail. He's free to do both. The triangle will come in crucial times when we need a bucket or the game gets chippy and close.

That's what every Phil team did anyway. Nothing was all strict triangle... but when they needed to it was strict. Kept guys focused and everyone knew what to do whenever Phil threw the triangle sign up.

I'm hoping that's what we do. Thats how you organize. Take advantage of easy baskets and when its time to grind throw it up....

Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
StarksEwing1
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9/30/2016  8:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/30/2016  8:37 PM
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't see this as a Triangle dis-thread. I see it as a factual disproof of an assumption that has been used to skew many arguments om this board for the entire offseason. That assumption has been that there will be no learning curve because Thibodeau uses the triangle so that both Rose and Noah are already familiar.

That assertion is factually inaccurate because Rose verbatim says "its complicated because it is new to us. It is foreign".

So, while you can argue that Rose and Noah are going to gel better than Gary Payton and Karl Malone did in LA, you cannot say it is a non issue because they already know triangle. Rose does not.

All evidence indicates there is a learning curve.

Thank you . . .
Let me simply say this. If a new coach comes in and there isn't a learning curve, that coach sucks. Unless you are from the Mike DAntoni school of coaching which runs 2 plays:
1) cmon cmon cmon!!!!
and of course our favorite
2) lets go lets go lets go!

So yea... The NEW coach, is going to be teaching the players a NEW system. Based on prior experience some may have some experience some may not.

When we are 15 games in or so and our record stinks and our PGs are playing like they don't know what to do lets chat then. This whole thread is based on a one line comment after the 2nd day of training camp. Then we get a thread jumping on Nix saying SEE!!!! I TOLD YOU!!!!

Sheesh.

Sigh.

That learning curve played a big part in us being one of the worst teams in the league the last few seasons. The Triangle isnt easy to learn, never has never been. All EwingsGlass is saying is that this issue remains. To what degree with Hornacek blending in more familiar schemes, remains to be seen. Not really sigh worthy IMO.

I don't want to get into what you think he's saying. What he is saying is he wants to crucify nixluva over a passing comment. Premeditated whining in the 1st degree

No one whines about other posters on this board more than you do, there isn't even a close second.

I might whine alot about other posters but it's within good reason based on actual stupidity, ignorance, trolling and everything associated.

About nixluva... those same posters that attack him everyday are the ones I whine about. Which brings me to this question. Why is it OK to come continue to badger nixluva but not ok to give it back to other posters?

See right there is why some get upset with you. Calling people stupid just because they view things differently is just not right. As for nixluva I actually like the guy. He seems like a cool dude and is a diehard knick fan. My only issue with him is that sometimes he seems to be unrealistic about knick issues/flaws/criticisms. I get that he is a very very positive guy and I think thats great but sometimes its ok to point out issues or criticisms. It doesn't mean you are a bad fan by pointing them out it actually means you are a passionate fan and want the knicks to get better
nixluva
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9/30/2016  9:23 PM
EnySpree wrote:From what Rose and Horny was saying I get the impression that the Knicks will definitely open up the offense with more Point guard friendly stuff. They want KP to run. They also want him to trail. He's free to do both. The triangle will come in crucial times when we need a bucket or the game gets chippy and close.

That's what every Phil team did anyway. Nothing was all strict triangle... but when they needed to it was strict. Kept guys focused and everyone knew what to do whenever Phil threw the triangle sign up.

I'm hoping that's what we do. Thats how you organize. Take advantage of easy baskets and when its time to grind throw it up....


What's funny EnySpree is that what you're describing is actually the essence of the ENTIRE Triangle and not just the Side Triangle that everyone fixates on. I've tried to explain this before but there's a LOT more to the triangle than the Side Triangle. That's just one aspect of the offense and it's famous because it's the most easily recognizable part of the offense. However, it's not the only thing.

I don't know how many times i've posted this over the years but it was true then and it's still true now:

Learn the seven dimensions of a sound offense

By Phil Jackson and Tex Winter
Seven Principles of the Sound Offense

An effective offense, to my way of thinking, features the following dimensions.

1. Penetration. Players must penetrate the defense, and the best way to do this is the fast break, because basketball is a full-court game, from baseline to baseline.

2. Spacing. I am a fanatic about how players distribute themselves on the offensive end of the court. They must space themselves in a way that makes it most difficult to defend, trap, and help. Players must align a certain number of feet apart. In high school, I’d recommend 12 to 15 feet spacing, in college, 15 to18 feet, and in the NBA, 15 to 20 feet. Proper spacing not only exposes individual defensive players’ vulnerabilities, but also ensures that every time the defense tries to trap, an offensive player will be open.

3. Ball and player movements. Players must move, and must move the ball, with a purpose. Effective off-the-ball activity is much more important than most fans and players think because they’re so used to watching only the movement of the ball and the player in possession of it. But there is only one ball and there are five players, meaning most players will have the ball in their hands 20 percent or less of the time the team is in possession of the ball.

4. Options for the ball handler. The more options a smart player has to attack a defender, the more successful that offensive player will be. When teammates are all moving to positions to free themselves (or another teammate with a pick), the ball handler’s choices are vastly increased.

5. Offensive rebounding and defensive balance. On all shots we take, players must go strong for the rebound while retaining court balance and awareness to prevent the opponent’s fast break.

6. Versatile positioning. The offense must offer to any player the chance to fill any spot on the court, independent of the player’s role. All positions should be interchangeable.

7. Use individual talents. It only makes sense for an offense to allow a team to take advantage of the skill sets of its best players. This doesn’t preclude the focus on team play that is emphasized in the six other principles, but it does acknowledge that some individuals have certain types and degrees of talent, and an offense should accentuate those assets. Michael Jordan taught me this.

Finally, I want the offense to flow from rebound to fast break, to quick offense, to a system of offense. The defenses in the NBA are so good because the players are so big, quick, and well coached. Add the pressure that the 24-second clock rule applies to the offense to find a good shot, and the defense gets even better.

The triangle offense has proven most effective, even against such obstacles, when players commit to and execute the system. The offense hinges on players attending to minute details in executing not just plays but also the fundamentals underlying the plays. Once players have mastered the individual techniques required of their roles, we then integrate those individuals into a team. Once this is done, the foundation for a good offense is solidly in place. The team can then go on the court with the confidence and poise so essential to success.

This method of play is as old as basketball. The triangle set is adjustable to the personnel, but such adaptations can be made without altering the essence of the offense. The only necessary adjustment from one season to the next involves tailoring the series of options based on each individual’s talents.

GustavBahler
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9/30/2016  9:41 PM
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't see this as a Triangle dis-thread. I see it as a factual disproof of an assumption that has been used to skew many arguments om this board for the entire offseason. That assumption has been that there will be no learning curve because Thibodeau uses the triangle so that both Rose and Noah are already familiar.

That assertion is factually inaccurate because Rose verbatim says "its complicated because it is new to us. It is foreign".

So, while you can argue that Rose and Noah are going to gel better than Gary Payton and Karl Malone did in LA, you cannot say it is a non issue because they already know triangle. Rose does not.

All evidence indicates there is a learning curve.

Thank you . . .
Let me simply say this. If a new coach comes in and there isn't a learning curve, that coach sucks. Unless you are from the Mike DAntoni school of coaching which runs 2 plays:
1) cmon cmon cmon!!!!
and of course our favorite
2) lets go lets go lets go!

So yea... The NEW coach, is going to be teaching the players a NEW system. Based on prior experience some may have some experience some may not.

When we are 15 games in or so and our record stinks and our PGs are playing like they don't know what to do lets chat then. This whole thread is based on a one line comment after the 2nd day of training camp. Then we get a thread jumping on Nix saying SEE!!!! I TOLD YOU!!!!

Sheesh.

Sigh.

That learning curve played a big part in us being one of the worst teams in the league the last few seasons. The Triangle isnt easy to learn, never has never been. All EwingsGlass is saying is that this issue remains. To what degree with Hornacek blending in more familiar schemes, remains to be seen. Not really sigh worthy IMO.

I don't want to get into what you think he's saying. What he is saying is he wants to crucify nixluva over a passing comment. Premeditated whining in the 1st degree

No one whines about other posters on this board more than you do, there isn't even a close second.

I might whine alot about other posters but it's within good reason based on actual stupidity, ignorance, trolling and everything associated.

About nixluva... those same posters that attack him everyday are the ones I whine about. Which brings me to this question. Why is it OK to come continue to badger nixluva but not ok to give it back to other posters?

You cast far too wide a net with your little rants, no good reason for that. All it does is add to the balkanization of this board.

As for Nix, he has made it clear that there is never any daylight between himself and Phil Jackson, just like there wasn't with MDA. You cant say anything remotely negative about our prospects without getting into a debate with Nixluva. Most of the time thats ok, because he does it with well reasoned arguments and lots of stats. Sometimes he gets a bit messianic, and the caps and exclamation points come out. Most of us here have lost their cool in one way or another, it also happens a lot less than it used to.

When you go hard after anyone who suggests that things might not go as swimmingly as you believe, you have to take what comes back your way. Most of the time (like this thread) its not anything close to being mean spirited, or fits the definition of trolling.

If Nix has shown anything is that he is up for the job of taking on all comers. Thats what he wants, and from time to time thats what he will get. I dont believe he would have it any other way.

StarksEwing1
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9/30/2016  9:46 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't see this as a Triangle dis-thread. I see it as a factual disproof of an assumption that has been used to skew many arguments om this board for the entire offseason. That assumption has been that there will be no learning curve because Thibodeau uses the triangle so that both Rose and Noah are already familiar.

That assertion is factually inaccurate because Rose verbatim says "its complicated because it is new to us. It is foreign".

So, while you can argue that Rose and Noah are going to gel better than Gary Payton and Karl Malone did in LA, you cannot say it is a non issue because they already know triangle. Rose does not.

All evidence indicates there is a learning curve.

Thank you . . .
Let me simply say this. If a new coach comes in and there isn't a learning curve, that coach sucks. Unless you are from the Mike DAntoni school of coaching which runs 2 plays:
1) cmon cmon cmon!!!!
and of course our favorite
2) lets go lets go lets go!

So yea... The NEW coach, is going to be teaching the players a NEW system. Based on prior experience some may have some experience some may not.

When we are 15 games in or so and our record stinks and our PGs are playing like they don't know what to do lets chat then. This whole thread is based on a one line comment after the 2nd day of training camp. Then we get a thread jumping on Nix saying SEE!!!! I TOLD YOU!!!!

Sheesh.

Sigh.

That learning curve played a big part in us being one of the worst teams in the league the last few seasons. The Triangle isnt easy to learn, never has never been. All EwingsGlass is saying is that this issue remains. To what degree with Hornacek blending in more familiar schemes, remains to be seen. Not really sigh worthy IMO.

I don't want to get into what you think he's saying. What he is saying is he wants to crucify nixluva over a passing comment. Premeditated whining in the 1st degree

No one whines about other posters on this board more than you do, there isn't even a close second.

I might whine alot about other posters but it's within good reason based on actual stupidity, ignorance, trolling and everything associated.

About nixluva... those same posters that attack him everyday are the ones I whine about. Which brings me to this question. Why is it OK to come continue to badger nixluva but not ok to give it back to other posters?

You cast far too wide a net with your little rants, no good reason for that. All it does is add to the balkanization of this board.

As for Nix, he has made it clear that there is never any daylight between himself and Phil Jackson, just like there wasn't with MDA. You cant say anything remotely negative about our prospects without getting into a debate with Nixluva. Most of the time thats ok, because he does it with well reasoned arguments and lots of stats. Sometimes he gets a bit messianic, and the caps and exclamation points come out. Most of us here have lost their cool in one way or another, it also happens a lot less than it used to.

When you go hard after anyone who suggests that things might not go as swimmingly as you believe, you have to take what comes back your way. Most of the time (like this thread) its not anything close to being mean spirited, or fits the definition of trolling.

If Nix has shown anything is that he is up for the job of taking on all comers. Thats what he wants, and from time to time thats what he will get. I dont believe he would have it any other way.

Good Post.
nixluva
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9/30/2016  10:15 PM
Here's one thing that I trust and that is the knowledge and approach of Hornacek. Everytime he opens his mouth he makes statements that illustrate he fully understands today's athletes and how to play efficient NBA Basketball. I don't believe he'll let the Triangle get in the way of his goals for the team. As Phil looks to try and make sure that the team has a core they can depend on when things get tough, Hornacek is mindful of how athletic today's players are and that the old Triangle Spacing isn't enough and you have to play at a SUPER FAST pace even in half court in order to beat today's defenders. As fast as the Golden State Warriors were it wasn't fast enough to beat the Cavs defense. It's like a great fastball hitter that you just can't sneak a fastball past.

So with those things in mind, Hornacek is going to do what he knows is best for this team. He started with Uptempo, PnR etc. He'll work in some Triangle but he won't let that overwhelm the need to do other things that will make this team function at it's highest level. Hornacek will go along with the immersion of the Triangle and observe how the players respond but in the end he will not sacrifice the success of this talented team on the Alter of PURE TRIANGLE. He will win games doing things his way and that will keep everyone quiet including Phil.

EnySpree
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9/30/2016  11:00 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't see this as a Triangle dis-thread. I see it as a factual disproof of an assumption that has been used to skew many arguments om this board for the entire offseason. That assumption has been that there will be no learning curve because Thibodeau uses the triangle so that both Rose and Noah are already familiar.

That assertion is factually inaccurate because Rose verbatim says "its complicated because it is new to us. It is foreign".

So, while you can argue that Rose and Noah are going to gel better than Gary Payton and Karl Malone did in LA, you cannot say it is a non issue because they already know triangle. Rose does not.

All evidence indicates there is a learning curve.

Thank you . . .
Let me simply say this. If a new coach comes in and there isn't a learning curve, that coach sucks. Unless you are from the Mike DAntoni school of coaching which runs 2 plays:
1) cmon cmon cmon!!!!
and of course our favorite
2) lets go lets go lets go!

So yea... The NEW coach, is going to be teaching the players a NEW system. Based on prior experience some may have some experience some may not.

When we are 15 games in or so and our record stinks and our PGs are playing like they don't know what to do lets chat then. This whole thread is based on a one line comment after the 2nd day of training camp. Then we get a thread jumping on Nix saying SEE!!!! I TOLD YOU!!!!

Sheesh.

Sigh.

That learning curve played a big part in us being one of the worst teams in the league the last few seasons. The Triangle isnt easy to learn, never has never been. All EwingsGlass is saying is that this issue remains. To what degree with Hornacek blending in more familiar schemes, remains to be seen. Not really sigh worthy IMO.

I don't want to get into what you think he's saying. What he is saying is he wants to crucify nixluva over a passing comment. Premeditated whining in the 1st degree

No one whines about other posters on this board more than you do, there isn't even a close second.

I might whine alot about other posters but it's within good reason based on actual stupidity, ignorance, trolling and everything associated.

About nixluva... those same posters that attack him everyday are the ones I whine about. Which brings me to this question. Why is it OK to come continue to badger nixluva but not ok to give it back to other posters?

See right there is why some get upset with you. Calling people stupid just because they view things differently is just not right. As for nixluva I actually like the guy. He seems like a cool dude and is a diehard knick fan. My only issue with him is that sometimes he seems to be unrealistic about knick issues/flaws/criticisms. I get that he is a very very positive guy and I think thats great but sometimes its ok to point out issues or criticisms. It doesn't mean you are a bad fan by pointing them out it actually means you are a passionate fan and want the knicks to get better

What's stupid is you only want to talk about the word stupid like that's the only thing I said.

What's also stupid is you and other posters keep trying to accuse me of having a problem when some one has a different opinion. Uh hello this is a message board! And again, it's ok to constantly attack nixluva bUT not ok to attack others? Thats the same garbage I complain about on here.

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CrushAlot
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9/30/2016  11:16 PM
This.
“We’ve been running a lot of pick-and-roll,” he said. “I feel that’s my game, pick-and-roll. Having two people on me, it creates and opens up space for everyone. We’re just trying to make things simple and make the easy offense.”
Jeff will run some triangle but he isn't going to lose games trying to implement it. He puts his guys in situations where they are most likely to succeed.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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10/1/2016  12:39 AM
CrushAlot wrote:This.
“We’ve been running a lot of pick-and-roll,” he said. “I feel that’s my game, pick-and-roll. Having two people on me, it creates and opens up space for everyone. We’re just trying to make things simple and make the easy offense.”
Jeff will run some triangle but he isn't going to lose games trying to implement it. He puts his guys in situations where they are most likely to succeed.

This is exactly what I was saying above. Hornacek is not just gonna ram this team into doing things that work against their strengths! He's got the right approach to how to make this work and I think the players are on board with his style.
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
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Member: #397

10/1/2016  7:20 AM
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:This.
“We’ve been running a lot of pick-and-roll,” he said. “I feel that’s my game, pick-and-roll. Having two people on me, it creates and opens up space for everyone. We’re just trying to make things simple and make the easy offense.”
Jeff will run some triangle but he isn't going to lose games trying to implement it. He puts his guys in situations where they are most likely to succeed.

This is exactly what I was saying above. Hornacek is not just gonna ram this team into doing things that work against their strengths! He's got the right approach to how to make this work and I think the players are on board with his style.

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CrushAlot
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10/1/2016  10:25 AM
Rose talks about style of play including the triangle and other stuff.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
knicks1248
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10/1/2016  10:37 AM
Malcolm wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I think Phil has been clear that this is a process. He is creating institutional knowledge of the triangle. I'm hopeful they put it all together and stay healthy. I cautiously optimistic.
I am concerned that it will take too long this year to put it all together.
Meanwhile, teams like GS are dynamic. Championship is the goal. But more building blocks is fine also.
My own main concern is that they won't stay the course and learn the Triangle properly.

Winning isn't the top priority for me.

Instead, I just want to see some of the effortless (seeming), flowing beauty of Triangle games again.

And if we get that consistently enough, we'll also get plenty of winning -- not to worry.

I'm satisfied with Noah (although I really hated, like Phil Jackson, to lose Lopez).

Lee and Jennings seem like identifiable pieces for a successful Triangle team.

I was sorry to lose Williams as he sort of fit the (informal) requirement of having
one talented, but sort of spaced out player on a Triangle team.

Rose is the player I'm least convinced about.

I don't see that he's ever had a Triangle skill set.

Worse . . . he doesn't seem to have much of a Triangle mind set, either.

I hope Jackson can pull some of his motivational magic on him . . .

Are you kidding me, winning is the #1 priority. I don't give a damn what they run, just win the damn game..

Enough of this process/culture sht, winning cures everything

ES
EwingsGlass
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10/1/2016  10:43 AM
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't see this as a Triangle dis-thread. I see it as a factual disproof of an assumption that has been used to skew many arguments om this board for the entire offseason. That assumption has been that there will be no learning curve because Thibodeau uses the triangle so that both Rose and Noah are already familiar.

That assertion is factually inaccurate because Rose verbatim says "its complicated because it is new to us. It is foreign".

So, while you can argue that Rose and Noah are going to gel better than Gary Payton and Karl Malone did in LA, you cannot say it is a non issue because they already know triangle. Rose does not.

All evidence indicates there is a learning curve.

Thank you . . .
Let me simply say this. If a new coach comes in and there isn't a learning curve, that coach sucks. Unless you are from the Mike DAntoni school of coaching which runs 2 plays:
1) cmon cmon cmon!!!!
and of course our favorite
2) lets go lets go lets go!

So yea... The NEW coach, is going to be teaching the players a NEW system. Based on prior experience some may have some experience some may not.

When we are 15 games in or so and our record stinks and our PGs are playing like they don't know what to do lets chat then. This whole thread is based on a one line comment after the 2nd day of training camp. Then we get a thread jumping on Nix saying SEE!!!! I TOLD YOU!!!!

Sheesh.

Sigh.

That learning curve played a big part in us being one of the worst teams in the league the last few seasons. The Triangle isnt easy to learn, never has never been. All EwingsGlass is saying is that this issue remains. To what degree with Hornacek blending in more familiar schemes, remains to be seen. Not really sigh worthy IMO.

I don't want to get into what you think he's saying. What he is saying is he wants to crucify nixluva over a passing comment. Premeditated whining in the 1st degree

If I thought crucifixtion on an chat board would result in the redemption of all our tortured souls, I would. I am saying Nix has argued Triangle purism until disproven. The he argues quick learning curve. Other say it's complex. Players and coach say it's complex. So, now we a broadened to everything is triangle. Basic rules. Space the floor... I am saying Horny will optimize efficient shots through ANY means possible. SSOL, shot chart optimization. He will implement a dynamic offense to complete the half court set, but it is complex. It will take time.

You know I gonna spin wit it
fishmike
Posts: 53902
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10/1/2016  11:31 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I think Phil has been clear that this is a process. He is creating institutional knowledge of the triangle. I'm hopeful they put it all together and stay healthy. I cautiously optimistic.
I am concerned that it will take too long this year to put it all together.
Meanwhile, teams like GS are dynamic. Championship is the goal. But more building blocks is fine also.
My own main concern is that they won't stay the course and learn the Triangle properly.

Winning isn't the top priority for me.

Instead, I just want to see some of the effortless (seeming), flowing beauty of Triangle games again.

And if we get that consistently enough, we'll also get plenty of winning -- not to worry.

I'm satisfied with Noah (although I really hated, like Phil Jackson, to lose Lopez).

Lee and Jennings seem like identifiable pieces for a successful Triangle team.

I was sorry to lose Williams as he sort of fit the (informal) requirement of having
one talented, but sort of spaced out player on a Triangle team.

Rose is the player I'm least convinced about.

I don't see that he's ever had a Triangle skill set.

Worse . . . he doesn't seem to have much of a Triangle mind set, either.

I hope Jackson can pull some of his motivational magic on him . . .

Are you kidding me, winning is the #1 priority. I don't give a damn what they run, just win the damn game..

Enough of this process/culture sht, winning cures everything

100% and its pretty clear what is happening. There is talent on this roster. The coach knows that. He knows what they are most comfortable with and how best to utilize those talents from day 1. He also understands the importance of building something, but also understands it doesnt have be at the expense of forward progress.

1) push it. Lee and Rose in the backcourt are a pair of deer. They simply fly around. Add to that with KP/Melo/Noah up front we should be very good on the defensive boards without guards help. Quick outlet passes and easy points on the break.

2)Early half court/transition: run the P&R and let your talented guys seek quick and early easy opportunities.

3)Run the triangle in the half court: When the defense gets set throw it into the post to Noah and the cutters cut.

It puts us in a position to win day 1 with the talent we have.
It gets us building the system piece by piece as time goes on. As we get scouted more and more we add more wrinkles, triangle grows.
It gets our bench guys involved and limits the curve for guys like Willy and Cheese

Jeff has been transparent in this. There isnt much to discuss until Tues when we see how they come out.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

10/1/2016  1:07 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't see this as a Triangle dis-thread. I see it as a factual disproof of an assumption that has been used to skew many arguments om this board for the entire offseason. That assumption has been that there will be no learning curve because Thibodeau uses the triangle so that both Rose and Noah are already familiar.

That assertion is factually inaccurate because Rose verbatim says "its complicated because it is new to us. It is foreign".

So, while you can argue that Rose and Noah are going to gel better than Gary Payton and Karl Malone did in LA, you cannot say it is a non issue because they already know triangle. Rose does not.

All evidence indicates there is a learning curve.

Thank you . . .
Let me simply say this. If a new coach comes in and there isn't a learning curve, that coach sucks. Unless you are from the Mike DAntoni school of coaching which runs 2 plays:
1) cmon cmon cmon!!!!
and of course our favorite
2) lets go lets go lets go!

So yea... The NEW coach, is going to be teaching the players a NEW system. Based on prior experience some may have some experience some may not.

When we are 15 games in or so and our record stinks and our PGs are playing like they don't know what to do lets chat then. This whole thread is based on a one line comment after the 2nd day of training camp. Then we get a thread jumping on Nix saying SEE!!!! I TOLD YOU!!!!

Sheesh.

Sigh.

That learning curve played a big part in us being one of the worst teams in the league the last few seasons. The Triangle isnt easy to learn, never has never been. All EwingsGlass is saying is that this issue remains. To what degree with Hornacek blending in more familiar schemes, remains to be seen. Not really sigh worthy IMO.

I don't want to get into what you think he's saying. What he is saying is he wants to crucify nixluva over a passing comment. Premeditated whining in the 1st degree

If I thought crucifixtion on an chat board would result in the redemption of all our tortured souls, I would. I am saying Nix has argued Triangle purism until disproven. The he argues quick learning curve. Other say it's complex. Players and coach say it's complex. So, now we a broadened to everything is triangle. Basic rules. Space the floor... I am saying Horny will optimize efficient shots through ANY means possible. SSOL, shot chart optimization. He will implement a dynamic offense to complete the half court set, but it is complex. It will take time.

Cool man whatever... here calm yo ass down

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Rose and the Triangle (Attention: Nix (!) . . .)

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