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What was the Knicks biggest mistake over the last ten years?
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CrushAlot
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What was the Knicks biggest mistake over the last ten years?
Signing Amare despite his knee issues and not being able to insure his deal
Drafting Hill over DeRozan, Jennings, Teague, Holiday
Including a first round pick in the Bargs trade
Tyson Chandler trade
Hiring Mike D'Antoni over Mark Jackson
Trading Hill, Jeffries, and a first round pick for cap space to chase lbj
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CrushAlot
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8/16/2016  11:51 AM
dk7th wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Should be 2 options for Melo.

1)Trading all those picks and assets instead of waiting until he was a free agent in 2011

2)Resigning Melo to a 5 year Max contract with a No Trade Clause kicker instead of doing a proper rebuild

Another option that should be included is using the Amnesty provision on Chauncey Billups instead of saving it for Amare, but I guess that could be rolled up into the Tyson Chandler trade.

I can think of 25+ things worse than those 2, thats for sure.

maybe you can but that melo deal did not bring the knicks even within smelling distance of a conference finals, which would have justified the trade even to those like myself who hated it from the beginning, if only because we knew nothing would come of it.

and nothing has.

the main point is the article is rubbish for not even mentioning that transaction as a possibility for debate.

Exactly. What has the last 6 years of Melo sucking for the Knicks brought the franchise? Nothing but embarrassment and pain.

The only good thing about Melo sucking for the Knicks is his mediocrity has brought us KP. All by accident of course. If he even played close to the top 25 player he's supposed to be, we wouldn't even be in the lottery and players would flock to New York to get a chance to win a ring.

We made the playoffs 3 of those years, and won a playoff series. There is your answer. Is it a lot of success? NO. But more than we had experienced prior to him? Absolutely. Enjoy continuing to be the laughing stock of this board. You wear it well.

you have the advantage of history going for you, as damnably lousy as it has been. and it is actually a very weak argument. to make the argument more viable you would need to ask yourself: would the knicks have been much better off waiting for his free agency, whereupon the assets the knicks had could have been converted into something better for the future? be honest, unlike the article.


So we are back to assuming Ujiri and the Nuggets get nothing for Melo? Do you really think that was going to happen? Are you speculating that Melo wouldn't sign a deal under the old CBA with a team other than the Knicks if he was traded? So the assumptions in this scenario are Ujiri is stupid, Melo is going to wait to get paid less and see what free agency looks like in the new CBA after the owners lock the players out. Got it.
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Knixkik
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8/16/2016  12:19 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Should be 2 options for Melo.

1)Trading all those picks and assets instead of waiting until he was a free agent in 2011

2)Resigning Melo to a 5 year Max contract with a No Trade Clause kicker instead of doing a proper rebuild

Another option that should be included is using the Amnesty provision on Chauncey Billups instead of saving it for Amare, but I guess that could be rolled up into the Tyson Chandler trade.

I can think of 25+ things worse than those 2, thats for sure.

maybe you can but that melo deal did not bring the knicks even within smelling distance of a conference finals, which would have justified the trade even to those like myself who hated it from the beginning, if only because we knew nothing would come of it.

and nothing has.

the main point is the article is rubbish for not even mentioning that transaction as a possibility for debate.

Exactly. What has the last 6 years of Melo sucking for the Knicks brought the franchise? Nothing but embarrassment and pain.

The only good thing about Melo sucking for the Knicks is his mediocrity has brought us KP. All by accident of course. If he even played close to the top 25 player he's supposed to be, we wouldn't even be in the lottery and players would flock to New York to get a chance to win a ring.

We made the playoffs 3 of those years, and won a playoff series. There is your answer. Is it a lot of success? NO. But more than we had experienced prior to him? Absolutely. Enjoy continuing to be the laughing stock of this board. You wear it well.

you have the advantage of history going for you, as damnably lousy as it has been. and it is actually a very weak argument. to make the argument more viable you would need to ask yourself: would the knicks have been much better off waiting for his free agency, whereupon the assets the knicks had could have been converted into something better for the future? be honest, unlike the article.


So we are back to assuming Ujiri and the Nuggets get nothing for Melo? Do you really think that was going to happen? Are you speculating that Melo wouldn't sign a deal under the old CBA with a team other than the Knicks if he was traded? So the assumptions in this scenario are Ujiri is stupid, Melo is going to wait to get paid less and see what free agency looks like in the new CBA after the owners lock the players out. Got it.

He was going to be traded to NJ. Nets wanted to pull the trigger and were willing to take a chance that Melo would resign with them. There was no such thing as waiting until free agency for Melo. I don't blame him either. The lockout was a given, and contracts were a complete unknown for free agency. But unfortunately, we have some here who have selective memories and don't look at players as people who want the security of a contact and see them as objects who are there just for our entertainment. Melo was supposed to every favor in the world for the knicks while playing for the Nuggets, with no assurance whatsoever. I wouldn't take that gamble, so i wouldn't expect that from him either.
Nalod
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8/16/2016  1:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/16/2016  1:16 PM
I agree while thin at times there was some reasonable justification at the time some moves were made. We needed Size, Hill was our pick, We needed a star, Amare was on board, pairing Tyson at the time was actually deemed a very smart move that few teams could afford!! Paid billups a ton of money!!! MDA over Mark Jax? Id do that again BTW! But, I do think Jax would have done better with the roster at that time. Obviously MDA was bought in to coach a different roster that never materialized. Maybe Lebron had indicated a great respect for MDA. Remember, the guy had a great run in PHX. We look back at his run with us and Lakers and he is tainted.

Chasing LBJ? What we don't know is were the knicks even in the running or was there ever a chance. Could have had Melo and Lebron on the same team.

What we don't know is what would have knicks done in lieu of some of these moves.

I am convinced Melo would be in Brooklyn if not to knicks. That deal was done unless DOlan upped the Ante. He did.
If no Amare, do we even trade for Melo?
Each move begets another, so the chain of history would have had its own pattern. The Trade for Barg's to me was the worst. ON paper, it was a good concept but the knicks should have protected the pick. The concept of trading picks for players that either make us worse, or don't contribute is counter productive. We provide a greater value by inflating a pick by NOT winnig!!! This concept is a disaster!!! If Bargs raised our win total, the pick should be with more, but that's not what happens. Same thing with Eddy!!
Very glad Phil is not trading picks thus far.

Chuck, "Belle" of the "Lamenters Ball"!!!
MaTT4281
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8/16/2016  1:36 PM
Wow, if someone makes up an issue and talks loudly enough about it, it steers the whole conversation. Suddenly Trump makes a whole lot more sense.

I think the one true ****-up has already been mentioned early in this thread, and that was picking up the team option on Chauncey Billups and then immediately using the amnesty on him. Anything else you want to argue, there's at least a counter argument with some sort of logic behind it (no matter how weak). Chauncey just comes down to "oops, our bad".

Out of the list, I vote the Bargs trade. Even without the pick included, Bargs was a net negative. Kick a man while he's down...
ChuckBuck
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8/16/2016  1:37 PM
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Should be 2 options for Melo.

1)Trading all those picks and assets instead of waiting until he was a free agent in 2011

2)Resigning Melo to a 5 year Max contract with a No Trade Clause kicker instead of doing a proper rebuild

Another option that should be included is using the Amnesty provision on Chauncey Billups instead of saving it for Amare, but I guess that could be rolled up into the Tyson Chandler trade.

I can think of 25+ things worse than those 2, thats for sure.

maybe you can but that melo deal did not bring the knicks even within smelling distance of a conference finals, which would have justified the trade even to those like myself who hated it from the beginning, if only because we knew nothing would come of it.

and nothing has.

the main point is the article is rubbish for not even mentioning that transaction as a possibility for debate.

Exactly. What has the last 6 years of Melo sucking for the Knicks brought the franchise? Nothing but embarrassment and pain.

The only good thing about Melo sucking for the Knicks is his mediocrity has brought us KP. All by accident of course. If he even played close to the top 25 player he's supposed to be, we wouldn't even be in the lottery and players would flock to New York to get a chance to win a ring.

We made the playoffs 3 of those years, and won a playoff series. There is your answer. Is it a lot of success? NO. But more than we had experienced prior to him? Absolutely. Enjoy continuing to be the laughing stock of this board. You wear it well.

Uhhh...Hate to break it to you but half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs. Not an accomplishment by any means.

Just for reference, the Knicks made the playoffs with Stephon phucking Marbury. SO

Someone on this board has to speak the truth and stop sugarcoating mediocrity. Anyone actually happy about the Knicks the last 16 years, is living in denial about reality.

The last time the Knicks were truly relevant was when Jeff Van Gundy was still driving a Honda Civic as coach for the Knicks.

Me. Laughingstock? Sure, if you say so boss.

WINNING a playoff series is the sole accomplishment for this team in the past 10 years on the court. Melo carried that team. End of argument.

LOL gross. Bad argument if you consider 1 measly playoff series win an accomplishment. That actually should be a disgrace, considering the seeding of the Knicks.
Knixkik
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8/16/2016  1:49 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Should be 2 options for Melo.

1)Trading all those picks and assets instead of waiting until he was a free agent in 2011

2)Resigning Melo to a 5 year Max contract with a No Trade Clause kicker instead of doing a proper rebuild

Another option that should be included is using the Amnesty provision on Chauncey Billups instead of saving it for Amare, but I guess that could be rolled up into the Tyson Chandler trade.

I can think of 25+ things worse than those 2, thats for sure.

maybe you can but that melo deal did not bring the knicks even within smelling distance of a conference finals, which would have justified the trade even to those like myself who hated it from the beginning, if only because we knew nothing would come of it.

and nothing has.

the main point is the article is rubbish for not even mentioning that transaction as a possibility for debate.

Exactly. What has the last 6 years of Melo sucking for the Knicks brought the franchise? Nothing but embarrassment and pain.

The only good thing about Melo sucking for the Knicks is his mediocrity has brought us KP. All by accident of course. If he even played close to the top 25 player he's supposed to be, we wouldn't even be in the lottery and players would flock to New York to get a chance to win a ring.

We made the playoffs 3 of those years, and won a playoff series. There is your answer. Is it a lot of success? NO. But more than we had experienced prior to him? Absolutely. Enjoy continuing to be the laughing stock of this board. You wear it well.

Uhhh...Hate to break it to you but half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs. Not an accomplishment by any means.

Just for reference, the Knicks made the playoffs with Stephon phucking Marbury. SO

Someone on this board has to speak the truth and stop sugarcoating mediocrity. Anyone actually happy about the Knicks the last 16 years, is living in denial about reality.

The last time the Knicks were truly relevant was when Jeff Van Gundy was still driving a Honda Civic as coach for the Knicks.

Me. Laughingstock? Sure, if you say so boss.

WINNING a playoff series is the sole accomplishment for this team in the past 10 years on the court. Melo carried that team. End of argument.

LOL gross. Bad argument if you consider 1 measly playoff series win an accomplishment. That actually should be a disgrace, considering the seeding of the Knicks.


Yes it is a bad accomplishment. It is our only accomplishment however. Which leads me back to the original point. Our biggest mistake of the past 10 years is NOT the one that led directly to our ONLY accomplishment in the past 10 years. It is one of the many that had a direct negative impact on our team on the court. Only in your world is making the playoffs 3 years in a row, and winning a playoff series a bad thing. While it is not a great accomplishment by any means, most of us would prefer to see the Knicks in the playoffs, then not. Losing Gallo and a draft pick (what did that first round pick turn into anyways) did not hold this team back in any way. Winning 1 measly playoff series, as you put it, in the last 10 years is a complete disgrace. I agree with you complete. We have been a big disgrace as a franchise these past 10+ years. But your argument that the lone bright spot and leader to that little bit of success is the biggest failure in the past 10 years has you really misguided. Then again, we know exactly where you stand on this, and i still can't wrap my head around how baffling your arguments can be.
knicks1248
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8/16/2016  1:58 PM
All those moves were base on improving the team, they just didn't pan out. It is what it is, set backs. Obviously if you could read the future, you would know better.

The problem with any move is that we never make another move to compliment the first move, that's been the problem since ewing

ES
CrushAlot
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8/16/2016  2:17 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Should be 2 options for Melo.

1)Trading all those picks and assets instead of waiting until he was a free agent in 2011

2)Resigning Melo to a 5 year Max contract with a No Trade Clause kicker instead of doing a proper rebuild

Another option that should be included is using the Amnesty provision on Chauncey Billups instead of saving it for Amare, but I guess that could be rolled up into the Tyson Chandler trade.

I can think of 25+ things worse than those 2, thats for sure.

maybe you can but that melo deal did not bring the knicks even within smelling distance of a conference finals, which would have justified the trade even to those like myself who hated it from the beginning, if only because we knew nothing would come of it.

and nothing has.

the main point is the article is rubbish for not even mentioning that transaction as a possibility for debate.

Exactly. What has the last 6 years of Melo sucking for the Knicks brought the franchise? Nothing but embarrassment and pain.

The only good thing about Melo sucking for the Knicks is his mediocrity has brought us KP. All by accident of course. If he even played close to the top 25 player he's supposed to be, we wouldn't even be in the lottery and players would flock to New York to get a chance to win a ring.

We made the playoffs 3 of those years, and won a playoff series. There is your answer. Is it a lot of success? NO. But more than we had experienced prior to him? Absolutely. Enjoy continuing to be the laughing stock of this board. You wear it well.

Uhhh...Hate to break it to you but half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs. Not an accomplishment by any means.

Just for reference, the Knicks made the playoffs with Stephon phucking Marbury. SO

Someone on this board has to speak the truth and stop sugarcoating mediocrity. Anyone actually happy about the Knicks the last 16 years, is living in denial about reality.

The last time the Knicks were truly relevant was when Jeff Van Gundy was still driving a Honda Civic as coach for the Knicks.

Me. Laughingstock? Sure, if you say so boss.

WINNING a playoff series is the sole accomplishment for this team in the past 10 years on the court. Melo carried that team. End of argument.

LOL gross. Bad argument if you consider 1 measly playoff series win an accomplishment. That actually should be a disgrace, considering the seeding of the Knicks.

Anthony carried that team. Tyson, Amare, Kidd, Sheed, Thomas etc. were all done or out with the flu by the stretch run to the playoffs. He was the reason the knicks got the second seed. JR's season ended after game 3 against the Celtics. But the Knicks still had Cope so they should have smacked the Pacers.
Carmelo Anthony is the Eastern Conference Player of the Month for April, the NBA announced on Friday.

Anthony nearly averaged a double-double (36.9 points, 9.9 rebounds per game) in APril, as the Knicks went 8-2. His hot streak led him to his first scoring title in his 10-year career, outdoing Kevin Durant 28.7 points per game to 28.1. Anthony scored 50 points on April 2 to help the Knicks beat the Heat on the road


http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/knicks/archive/_/month/april-2013/count/76
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Knixkik
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8/16/2016  2:25 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Should be 2 options for Melo.

1)Trading all those picks and assets instead of waiting until he was a free agent in 2011

2)Resigning Melo to a 5 year Max contract with a No Trade Clause kicker instead of doing a proper rebuild

Another option that should be included is using the Amnesty provision on Chauncey Billups instead of saving it for Amare, but I guess that could be rolled up into the Tyson Chandler trade.

I can think of 25+ things worse than those 2, thats for sure.

maybe you can but that melo deal did not bring the knicks even within smelling distance of a conference finals, which would have justified the trade even to those like myself who hated it from the beginning, if only because we knew nothing would come of it.

and nothing has.

the main point is the article is rubbish for not even mentioning that transaction as a possibility for debate.

Exactly. What has the last 6 years of Melo sucking for the Knicks brought the franchise? Nothing but embarrassment and pain.

The only good thing about Melo sucking for the Knicks is his mediocrity has brought us KP. All by accident of course. If he even played close to the top 25 player he's supposed to be, we wouldn't even be in the lottery and players would flock to New York to get a chance to win a ring.

We made the playoffs 3 of those years, and won a playoff series. There is your answer. Is it a lot of success? NO. But more than we had experienced prior to him? Absolutely. Enjoy continuing to be the laughing stock of this board. You wear it well.

Uhhh...Hate to break it to you but half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs. Not an accomplishment by any means.

Just for reference, the Knicks made the playoffs with Stephon phucking Marbury. SO

Someone on this board has to speak the truth and stop sugarcoating mediocrity. Anyone actually happy about the Knicks the last 16 years, is living in denial about reality.

The last time the Knicks were truly relevant was when Jeff Van Gundy was still driving a Honda Civic as coach for the Knicks.

Me. Laughingstock? Sure, if you say so boss.

WINNING a playoff series is the sole accomplishment for this team in the past 10 years on the court. Melo carried that team. End of argument.

LOL gross. Bad argument if you consider 1 measly playoff series win an accomplishment. That actually should be a disgrace, considering the seeding of the Knicks.

Anthony carried that team. Tyson, Amare, Kidd, Sheed, Thomas etc. were all done or out with the flu by the stretch run to the playoffs. He was the reason the knicks got the second seed. JR's season ended after game 3 against the Celtics. But the Knicks still had Cope so they should have smacked the Pacers.
Carmelo Anthony is the Eastern Conference Player of the Month for April, the NBA announced on Friday.

Anthony nearly averaged a double-double (36.9 points, 9.9 rebounds per game) in APril, as the Knicks went 8-2. His hot streak led him to his first scoring title in his 10-year career, outdoing Kevin Durant 28.7 points per game to 28.1. Anthony scored 50 points on April 2 to help the Knicks beat the Heat on the road


http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/knicks/archive/_/month/april-2013/count/76

Yeah i was very disappointed how everyone but Melo quit during the playoffs. It felt like he was on his own out there.
dk7th
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8/16/2016  2:42 PM
Knicks would have been a much better team that season had they gi
knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
dk7th
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8/16/2016  2:47 PM
ven Jeremy Lin that "ridiculous contract" instead of letting egos get in the way. Not Dolans or Melo's finest moment and Hibberts block was clearly Karmic comeuppance.
knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
bernard
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8/16/2016  2:56 PM
+1
Even Eddy Curry made more sense than Bargs.
We've had more than our share of moves that didn't work out, but most of them were defensible gambles -- got to take some when you've got a lousy squad w/ a terrible cap situation. But the Bargs fiasco... that never made an ounce of sense. He was trash. Terrible player. Terrible teammate. Hated in Toronto, and those Canadians are so polite they don't hate anyone!

fishmike wrote:Bargs... easy. All the other moves while they didn't work had some ounce of logic or reasoning behind them. The Bargs move was just total retardation
Knixkik
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8/16/2016  3:04 PM
dk7th wrote:ven Jeremy Lin that "ridiculous contract" instead of letting egos get in the way. Not Dolans or Melo's finest moment and Hibberts block was clearly Karmic comeuppance.

To me, the most underrated mistakes is letting Fields and Lin go for nothing. We had 2 young players who, at the time, looked to be nice long-term starting guards. Fields had 3-and-D potential, plus elite rebounding, and Lin's impact was self-explanatory. Our cupboard was far from bare after the Melo trade, with these 2 being the biggest reasons (Lin came the following year, but still counts.) We let them walk, and replaced with Kidd and Felton, which was ok for a year, but the most short-sighted replacements ever. If we anticipated letting Fields and Lin walk with the contracts we knew they would get, we should have dealt them before the deadline for future picks. Both would have fielded 1st rounders and/or other assets. But we allowed our 2 key assets to walk for free. That is poor management at its finest.
dk7th
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8/16/2016  3:14 PM
now that you mention it, the rubbish article is now even worse since it didn't list the lin fiasco. the author is clearly biased and intellectually dishonest and it's a real insult and shame that this thread was even started. you can't omit the melo and lin events and expect to be taken seriously, unless you're just that stupid.
knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Knixkik
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8/16/2016  3:34 PM
dk7th wrote:now that you mention it, the rubbish article is now even worse since it didn't list the lin fiasco. the author is clearly biased and intellectually dishonest and it's a real insult and shame that this thread was even started. you can't omit the melo and lin events and expect to be taken seriously, unless you're just that stupid.

The Melo/Lin thing was bad, i completely agree there. I will hold Melo accountable for his part in that. I won't hold him accountable for wanting his contract settled before the lockout, or the poor moves after acquiring him though. But the Lin thing should have gone much better.
Vmart
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8/16/2016  7:05 PM
Not tanking. Knowing the talent level wasn't there they didn't make an all out effort to tank. Missed out on LeBron, Melo and Wade when opportunity presented.
EnySpree
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8/16/2016  7:15 PM
Why do you guys love to talk about the misery of this franchise?? You guys are as miserable as they come
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StarksEwing1
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8/16/2016  7:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/16/2016  7:59 PM
EnySpree wrote:Why do you guys love to talk about the misery of this franchise?? You guys are as miserable as they come
Because its our recent history of the Knicks. Its not about being negative/miserable its just being honest about our team situation for the past 16 years. That doesn't mean the misery will continue.
ChuckBuck
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8/16/2016  8:16 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Why do you guys love to talk about the misery of this franchise?? You guys are as miserable as they come
Because its our recent history of the Knicks. Its not about being negative/miserable its just being honest about our team situation for the past 16 years. That doesn't mean the misery will continue.

Some fans just like to see the yellow kernels of corn in their shyt after eating a few husks. At the end of the day, it's still a huge log of shyt floating in your toilet, no matter how many yellow kernels you count.

Gotta call a spade a spade. Nothing to root for in the Knicks for 16 years. We have a 7'3 glimmer of hope. It's his time now.
StarksEwing1
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8/16/2016  8:19 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Why do you guys love to talk about the misery of this franchise?? You guys are as miserable as they come
Because its our recent history of the Knicks. Its not about being negative/miserable its just being honest about our team situation for the past 16 years. That doesn't mean the misery will continue.

Some fans just like to see the yellow kernels of corn in their shyt after eating a few husks. At the end of the day, it's still a huge log of shyt floating in your toilet, no matter how many yellow kernels you count.

Gotta call a spade a spade. Nothing to root for in the Knicks for 16 years. We have a 7'3 glimmer of hope. It's his time now.

Look I love positivity I honestly do. However like you said sometimes you gotta be honest even if its critical. Yes KP gives me a lot of hope and I feel this year he will truly be our best all around player and all star
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