If I got some assurances that Westbrook was going to sign a 5 year deal, I probably do trade Porzingis and Rose to get him but that isn't on tbe table.

blkexec wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Wesbrook is Amare in a point guards body. You can see he loves the game, wants to win and wants to spend his entire career relying on his athleticism. He is not being very smart about how he plays.
I have no issues with him scoring, I think the NBA has shed the traditional position by position stereotypes. If you can get behind Rose then you should treat Westbrook as a god. But one injury and it will be the same story as Amare or Rose. And the way he plays he is courting disaster.

how does this make any sense when westbrook has already bounced back from 3 knee injuries? hasnt slowed him down in the slightest.

Farther time is undefeated......

The human body can only take so much abuse.....

Precisely. You cant win against time. Westbrook is in his prime and he is a phenomenal talent. But it doesn't last forever and his body won't put up with this level of punishment forever. His style of play means his game won't age gracefully. That's all I am saying.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Wesbrook is Amare in a point guards body. You can see he loves the game, wants to win and wants to spend his entire career relying on his athleticism. He is not being very smart about how he plays.
I have no issues with him scoring, I think the NBA has shed the traditional position by position stereotypes. If you can get behind Rose then you should treat Westbrook as a god. But one injury and it will be the same story as Amare or Rose. And the way he plays he is courting disaster.

how does this make any sense when westbrook has already bounced back from 3 knee injuries? hasnt slowed him down in the slightest.

He's pounding his knees and body. You don't think this projects poorly for him from ages 28 to 33 (years 9 to 13 of his career)? That's what we'd be signing him for most likely. I'm not saying I don't want him but KP is a steep price for the risk I think his body has. If he wants to come here as an FA, it's a no-brainer.

The microfracture surgery is the only thing that slowed Amare down. It wasn't that he relied too much on athleticism. There is also Dwyane Wade who relied on his athleticism and hit the floor more than almost any guard not named Iverson. Speaking of Iverson, Russel is a bigger version of Iverson and Allen actually got had some of his best years during that time. Vince Carter is another example of a highly athletic player who had a slow decline. I think that some players can stay in this league long because they were so athletically above their pierce that when they decline they turn into normal NBA players. If Westbrook had not picked up his passing I would have been worried but I think he will figure it out.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Wesbrook is Amare in a point guards body. You can see he loves the game, wants to win and wants to spend his entire career relying on his athleticism. He is not being very smart about how he plays.
I have no issues with him scoring, I think the NBA has shed the traditional position by position stereotypes. If you can get behind Rose then you should treat Westbrook as a god. But one injury and it will be the same story as Amare or Rose. And the way he plays he is courting disaster.

how does this make any sense when westbrook has already bounced back from 3 knee injuries? hasnt slowed him down in the slightest.

He's pounding his knees and body. You don't think this projects poorly for him from ages 28 to 33 (years 9 to 13 of his career)? That's what we'd be signing him for most likely. I'm not saying I don't want him but KP is a steep price for the risk I think his body has. If he wants to come here as an FA, it's a no-brainer.

The microfracture surgery is the only thing that slowed Amare down. It wasn't that he relied too much on athleticism. There is also Dwyane Wade who relied on his athleticism and hit the floor more than almost any guard not named Iverson. Speaking of Iverson, Russel is a bigger version of Iverson and Allen actually got had some of his best years during that time. Vince Carter is another example of a highly athletic player who had a slow decline. I think that some players can stay in this league long because they were so athletically above their pierce that when they decline they turn into normal NBA players. If Westbrook had not picked up his passing I would have been worried but I think he will figure it out.

Those are fair points. Carter and Wade were still useful older but I wouldn't have given up KP for the older versions of them. Vince was a 37% 3 point shooter also. For Wade ages 28 to 32, it's a harder decision. He was still great then. He was definitely worth a max contract but probably not worth KP.

Yeah giving up KP is too much but I was just disagreeing with Westbrook value being diminished because of a possible decline due to his over use of his supreme athleticism.

A secondary PG like Teague or Lowry and KP is better than Westbrook and no KP. The contracts that those two command is going to be key though. If it is not the max then good but when Memphis gave Conley his deal they kind of set the bar for those two being max or near max players. Lowry is good but old and has struggled in the playoffs. I look at Lowry as a poor man's Chauncey Billups. Billups was still a high level guard and maybe Lowry can too although Billups was an elite shooter and Ft maker which kept his efficiency very high. Teague is just your average guard but I am interested in how he does in Indiana. I doubt he leaves the Pacers but he has said that he is going to live in his Parents basement for the year so I see that as him still interesting in listening to other teams.

Then there is always Chris Paul who could jump ship if the Clipper crash again. He is old but he is like John Stockton/Steve Nash old. They know how to play this game at a high level even after they turn 35. so a 4 year deal is not that big.

Bonn1997 wrote:

y2zipper wrote:With Westbrook adamantly saying he's going through free agency, the Knicks can't trade Porzingis for him. If it was Rose and a first, I'd do that and then try to sign Westbrook later.

If I got some assurances that Westbrook was going to sign a 5 year deal, I probably do trade Porzingis and Rose to get him but that isn't on tbe table.

Just looking at the #s, I'm tempted to agree. But I think mreinman and meloshouldgo are right that he's the kind of player who relies too much on athleticism and might age badly.

He'll get to 32 fine as long as he doesn't have a micro fracture or miss 2 years, which is one contract. He isn't perfect but he's so good that I'd go in with KP if he was Signing because I don't know what KP will be.

nyknickzingis wrote:If Westbrook were on a longterm deal, or was willing to sign an extension as part of the agreement, one would have to consider it. However heading into free agency, it's a risk.

Porzingis is one of the best young talents in the league. At this point the smartest thing to do with him is let him be for a few years, up until year 5 of his NBA career. You'll have a really clear picture by then of what his real value to a team is.

To be honest, when Porzingis plays well, his value is more than Westbrook. He can give you 2nd option offense and on the other end board, defend. If he gets more consistent over the coming years, I think he'll be one of the 10 most valuable players in the league, even if he's not putting up monster stats like Westbrook.

before running out of steam and before he got a little nicked up, kp6 was the knicks' most important player. maybe not the best, but the most important. as it is, there's a thread from summer league where the author gleaned from his chats with ostensible staff members that the knicks are shifting to a more kp6-centric and less melo-centric outlook, a development that i foresaw the moment that kp6 was drafted over winslow and other draftees.