franco12 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This is potentially the best Knicks lineup since Sprewell/Houston/Camby/LJ. I know it probably won't be long lived. But long lived is hard in the NBA. Warriors just lost Harrison Barnes. OKC lost Ibaka and Harden over the years.

I get that people want to build through the draft... I do too. But sometimes it makes more sense to go for it. The chance to get DRose and Noah with something to prove for very little risk? It's worth it. If you don't see now, you'll see next May when the Knicks are actually playing meaningful basketball for once.

The risk with Rose is if Grant turns into a keeper.

Noah on the other hand is signed for 4 years and not small money. What happens if he is declining and not producing and not playing because he's hurt?

EDDY CURRY part deux

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/roster/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks

franco12 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This is potentially the best Knicks lineup since Sprewell/Houston/Camby/LJ. I know it probably won't be long lived. But long lived is hard in the NBA. Warriors just lost Harrison Barnes. OKC lost Ibaka and Harden over the years.

I get that people want to build through the draft... I do too. But sometimes it makes more sense to go for it. The chance to get DRose and Noah with something to prove for very little risk? It's worth it. If you don't see now, you'll see next May when the Knicks are actually playing meaningful basketball for once.

The risk with Rose is if Grant turns into a keeper.

Noah on the other hand is signed for 4 years and not small money. What happens if he is declining and not producing and not playing because he's hurt?

Noah is one of my all time favorite basketball players. He's a guy you take a risk on imho. It could blow up, but I predict we get one season of truly great ball from he and Rose. This season is gonna be about Rose and Noah proving they still have something left. I think we will get to at least the second round, maybe ECF. Maybe even further. You never know. It's a risky move, but it jibes with where Melo is at. This is the last all in for Melo play we will make. Then it'll be about building around KP. I'm good with it. If it doesn't work we have draft picks in 2017, 2018, 2019. If Phil had traded future picks, I'd be livid. But he has kept the future intact.

I think Jerian can be a solid NBA player, but he isn't going to be a special one who moves the needle. He's almost 24. Rose won an MVP at age 22.

ChuckBuck wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:meloanyk. Would we be better off just staying pat waive and stretch Calderon been a little more aggressive in draft and sign 1 year deals for the most part?

Yes. We went the win now route instead of the developmental route. If we had let all these bozos shake out, we could've signed the leftovers to 1 year deals and pounce on the real free agent prizes next year.

It was a domino effect, we gambled on trading for Rose, which led to his teammate Noah, that led to him recruiting Lee..and we're really only marginally better but no where realistically competing for a Championship.

I think Phil got caught up in the hysteria armed with 30m in cash when he could've had a Punisher sized armory next year with 60m to go after legit studs.

And then when those legit studs sign with better teams then what?? I can't wait to hear this answer....not.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

nixluva wrote:

stopstandthere wrote:How would Lee better than AA apart from defensive end actually?

Uh that defense is a HUGE aspect but in actuality Lee is better on offense too. If you think about how the team wants to play. Lee is better running the floor and finishing at the rim. He doesn't hold or pound the ball into the ground. It's just a better fit for how Hornacek will run this team.

           
                                                          AST                    TO
Overall	        GP MIN  OffRtg  DefRtg NetRtg AST% AST/TO Ratio OREB% DREB% REB% Ratio eFG% TS%   USG% PACE  PIE
Courtney Lee	79 29.6	106.2	103.3   2.9   8.8  1.89   15.1  1.4   8.7   5.0  8.0   51.8 55.1  15.0 95.81 7.1
Arron Afflalo	71 33.4	103.1	106.3  -3.2   9.7  1.76   13.3  1.1   10.9  6.1  7.6   50.0 53.1  18.1 94.97 7.6

I am a bit skeptical of the Off/Def ratings comparisons, according to those JR would be better than both, and even better than Melo. Should we have just re-signed him for under 10m? I will grant you that on the intangibles Lee comes ahead of AA, but this is not the vast improvement people believe it to be.

Honestly, as last year, I was hoping either for a tectonic FA signing that would have made us one of the top contending teams, or staying pat and keeping our gunpowder for the next off season. As last year, the Knicks did neither, opting for a middle-of-the-road approach that has improved us incrementally, but only if things go well (past injuries heal, the new team jells quickly, etc.)

I feel that if we had just kept the team as it was, given a pay raise to AA, re-signed our other FAs and added Deron Williams for $10-12m per year for three years, we would have had a very similar looking squad, without the same worries about healthy would people stay and without losing Grant.

AA was an atrocious defender. There is no question that Lee is better on D. There is also no question that Lee is better for a team looking to run more. Lee holds the ball far less and as such the ball movement should be better.

These moves were made to improve the team and they have a chance to do just that. That will improve the chances of adding FA's next year. It's a gamble worth taking. If all goes well this team could contend in the East. Aside from Durant what else could've achieved that in one move?

BRIGGS wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:meloanyk. Would we be better off just staying pat waive and stretch Calderon been a little more aggressive in draft and sign 1 year deals for the most part?

Yes. We went the win now route instead of the developmental route. If we had let all these bozos shake out, we could've signed the leftovers to 1 year deals and pounce on the real free agent prizes next year.

It was a domino effect, we gambled on trading for Rose, which led to his teammate Noah, that led to him recruiting Lee..and we're really only marginally better but no where realistically competing for a Championship.

I think Phil got caught up in the hysteria armed with 30m in cash when he could've had a Punisher sized armory next year with 60m to go after legit studs.

I question whether we will "win now" right J D? I hope we get Demetrius Jackson. I would give that the highest off season grade by a wide margin. It would've been nice keeping his teammate and letting them develop together. We're not beating these teams in the east and one of the big 3 will pull up lame before 30 games. And that one I'll take wager on

Will you put that wager right next to your wager of us trading KP?? lol Show me one post of anyone that doesn't think that Rose or Noah or Melo will miss some games?? You can't because there isn't any. We all know that we're gonna have to deal with injury problems but the hope is that the injuries are just minor injuries that that player will only miss a few games here and there so why would anyone take a wager on something that we're all agreeing with?? Give it a break and just simply get behind what Phil and the Knicks are trying to do for once.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:So the Knicks were not using the $32m in cap space if they did not trade for Rose?

No, no.

They were distributing $32m dollars to the scrap heap players on one year deals.

And that would have went over so well...

You act like that would be the only option. Plus, one can argue that Rose and Noah are scrap heap players. To make it worse if they do not improve they are scrap heap players on long deals.

So the Rose 1 year deal is a long deal?? lol

nixluva wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

franco12 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This is potentially the best Knicks lineup since Sprewell/Houston/Camby/LJ. I know it probably won't be long lived. But long lived is hard in the NBA. Warriors just lost Harrison Barnes. OKC lost Ibaka and Harden over the years.

I get that people want to build through the draft... I do too. But sometimes it makes more sense to go for it. The chance to get DRose and Noah with something to prove for very little risk? It's worth it. If you don't see now, you'll see next May when the Knicks are actually playing meaningful basketball for once.

The risk with Rose is if Grant turns into a keeper.

Noah on the other hand is signed for 4 years and not small money. What happens if he is declining and not producing and not playing because he's hurt?

Noah is one of my all time favorite basketball players. He's a guy you take a risk on imho. It could blow up, but I predict we get one season of truly great ball from he and Rose. This season is gonna be about Rose and Noah proving they still have something left. I think we will get to at least the second round, maybe ECF. Maybe even further. You never know. It's a risky move, but it jibes with where Melo is at. This is the last all in for Melo play we will make. Then it'll be about building around KP. I'm goof with it. If it doesn't work we have draft picks in 2017, 2018, 2019. If Phil had traded future picks, I'd be livid. But he has kept the future intact.

I think Jerian can be a solid NBA player, but he isn't going to be a special one who moves the needle. He's almost 24. Rose won an MVP at age 22.

You lost me at the bolded part. Tis the last all in type mive we do for Melo, till we do the same **** again next year. Its It's called kicking the can down the road. We spent one total offseason trying to build the team the right way. Then we switched right back to starfukking. Apparently building a team that barely makes the playoffs is more important than investing in the future for KP. Exactly the type if short term thinking that we had for the last twenty years.

How does this stop the Knicks from investing in the future? KP will be able to play with and learn from quality vets. Also we haven't completely given up on adding youth. There are still young players coming in and being developed in the D League. All the fear mongering is simply not a good enough reason not to try to improve the team. Also trying to make this out to be somehow detrimental to KP's development is a sorry argument. Lastly you don't know if this team will be top 4 or bottom 4 in the playoff hunt this year. You're choosing to characterize the team's chances as bottom 4 to suit your bias against this approach.

Last i checked Phil hasn't traded any of our 1st round picks so it seems to me like we'll still be putting young players from the draft around KP and they'll be ready to take over for the older guys in 2/3/4 years so building through the draft is still in motion.

meloanyk wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:meloanyk. Would we be better off just staying pat waive and stretch Calderon been a little more aggressive in draft and sign 1 year deals for the most part?

Yes. We went the win now route instead of the developmental route. If we had let all these bozos shake out, we could've signed the leftovers to 1 year deals and pounce on the real free agent prizes next year.

It was a domino effect, we gambled on trading for Rose, which led to his teammate Noah, that led to him recruiting Lee..and we're really only marginally better but no where realistically competing for a Championship.

I think Phil got caught up in the hysteria armed with 30m in cash when he could've had a Punisher sized armory next year with 60m to go after legit studs.
[/quotI think Jax was instructed to do a 180 (note not a 360) starting with Hornachek than Rambis, think it was a great hire by Isiah and Dolan lol. This is not the wholesale win at all costs approach that Billy King and Nets did a few years back. Moves make Knicks relevant in short run without losing that much flexibilty or future assets, still frustrating that the heralded MSG stage has not been able to rein a big fish like KD that would insert us into the elite. We still have a star in Melo, an emerging star in KP and hopefully this new additions can stay healthy and rebound to past levels. Call me crazy but think Westbrook changes our fortunes next year. I do like what Nets and Marks are doing, taking measured steps and restoring after King mortgaged their future but that is going to take time that Jax and his legacy could no longer afford given slow progress and his quickly expiring term . To the surprise of many , I give the offseason a grade between B and B plus depending on filling bench

Think Jax was told to do a 180' turn ( note not 360') and hiring Hornachek not Rambis was a good hire by Isiah and Dolan (lol) that signaled a change in philosphy however Jax or the org wants to spin it. Why would the spirtual one agree? Progress was slow, the expiry of his ridiculously overpaid deal is not far off and his legacy is more intact leaving NY with a competitive team. To the credit of all, this is not a win at all costs approach similar to Billy King's mortgaging the Net future as it didnt cost us future assets nor did it rob us of all flexibilty. The moves comes with some risks and doest make us an elite team but it does make us a relevant one which can only help the allure of MSG stage. Call me crazy but think Rose is just holding down the spot for Westbrook who is going to be here next year . To the amazement of some who call me a hater, I give this offseason a B to B+ depending on how the bench is filled out