EnySpree wrote:The funniest thing about this argument is if the Knicks do end up losing.... everyone will be calling for Phil to get fired and calling him an idiot and inexperienced.... yet you guys want the Knicks to build "organically"... how does one do that without losing at a ridiculous rate?

We have all our picks going forward and alot of young players in the organization.... what more do you want? We are building from within and signing guys to play now.... what is there to complain about? This is the best situation we've been in for 15 years

who are the alot of young players in the organization? KP and ?.

Cleanthony Early - released, but invited to summer league. There is clearly not a commitment on our part to keep him, and I applaud the move. I don't see him playing for an NBA team.

Galloway?

Justin Holiday?

KOQ
Seraphin? Is he even back?

Who is this youth I'm missing?

yellowboy90 wrote:There was nothing wrong with trading Lopez but there is something wrong with getting back subpar value for him

What would have been on par value?

Platitudes just gum up the discourse.

Be specific.

Knickoftime wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:There was nothing wrong with trading Lopez but there is something wrong with getting back subpar value for him

What would have been on par value?

Platitudes just gum up the discourse.

Be specific.

a healthy Above average player/starter who is not over 30 yrs old or a 1st rd pick. Multiple young avg players that show improvement plus picks would have been nice too.

CrushAlot wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The funniest thing about this argument is if the Knicks do end up losing.... everyone will be calling for Phil to get fired and calling him an idiot and inexperienced.... yet you guys want the Knicks to build "organically"... how does one do that without losing at a ridiculous rate?

We have all our picks going forward and alot of young players in the organization.... what more do you want? We are building from within and signing guys to play now.... what is there to complain about? This is the best situation we've been in for 15 years

who are the alot of young players in the organization? KP and ?.

Cleanthony Early - released, but invited to summer league. There is clearly not a commitment on our part to keep him, and I applaud the move. I don't see him playing for an NBA team.

Galloway?

Justin Holiday?

KOQ
Seraphin? Is he even back?

Who is this youth I'm missing?

Rose is younger than Lopez. Calderon is 35? Holiday is 27 and Jerian Grant will be 24 at the start of the season. The Knicks gave up the youngest and the oldest player in the trade. Also, looking at youth the Knicks have O'Quinn, Willy, Baker, Labeyrie and Plumlee that you left off of your list. They added a second round pick in the deal. I liked Grant but I am not sure that he is anything special.

My I forgot about all those young players because, I guess they were what, all second rounders or undrafted?

I like KOQ and hope Willy will contribute and turn into something.

But the others?

Plumlee so good he went undrafted.

Same with Baker.

Rose is younger than Lopez and Calderon, and he played exactly 73 minutes more than Calderon in 6 less games. And Lopez played 122 more minutes and played every game.

franco12 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The funniest thing about this argument is if the Knicks do end up losing.... everyone will be calling for Phil to get fired and calling him an idiot and inexperienced.... yet you guys want the Knicks to build "organically"... how does one do that without losing at a ridiculous rate?

We have all our picks going forward and alot of young players in the organization.... what more do you want? We are building from within and signing guys to play now.... what is there to complain about? This is the best situation we've been in for 15 years

who are the alot of young players in the organization? KP and ?.

Cleanthony Early - released, but invited to summer league. There is clearly not a commitment on our part to keep him, and I applaud the move. I don't see him playing for an NBA team.

Galloway?

Justin Holiday?

KOQ
Seraphin? Is he even back?

Who is this youth I'm missing?

What you are missing is a valid reason to argue....

We only have like 5 players signed.... so technically we don't have anyone. We have guys under our umbrella that have a shot at making the team.

we have young guys that are going to make the team because we'll have no cap space to add anyone but undrafted rookies.

Gotta be positive dude. We have alot going for us. Summer league is at 3pm... set your dvr you filthy animal

joec32033 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The funniest thing about this argument is if the Knicks do end up losing.... everyone will be calling for Phil to get fired and calling him an idiot and inexperienced.... yet you guys want the Knicks to build "organically"... how does one do that without losing at a ridiculous rate?

We have all our picks going forward and alot of young players in the organization.... what more do you want? We are building from within and signing guys to play now.... what is there to complain about? This is the best situation we've been in for 15 years

+1

×2

X^2

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:There was nothing wrong with trading Lopez but there is something wrong with getting back subpar value for him

What would have been on par value?

Platitudes just gum up the discourse.

Be specific.

a healthy Above average player/starter who is not over 30 yrs old or a 1st rd pick.

I have difficulty with "1st rd pick."

There are 30 first round picks, wildly varying in potential value. To lump them all together seems to lack specifics.

Now honest question. The NBA has given most teams significant cap room each of the next two seasons.

Add to that there is a fair number of center options on the free agent market, but high rent to low rent to everything in between.

Can you illustrate a scenario in which a team is giving up a healthy, above average player/starter under 30 for Lopez?

Lopez's impact can be approximated on the free agent market AND he requires $14m in cap space.

To me, giving up what you described as a rare, valuable player when you can simply buy most (if not all) of what Lopez brings doesn't make sense.

That's why I'm asking for a for instance - a team and a name player where i can weigh it on context and either say "oh yeah, I can see that, that makes sense for that team" or not.

Can you help out?

Atlanta, Miami, Detroit, Brooklyn, Pacers, Lakers have all signed centers so far, suggesting a need. Did any of these teams have a good player to give up that would have made a Lopez trade a better deal for them?

What if the knicks would have made a 3-way deal for Teague instead of Rose.

What about the pkg Orl gave up for Ibaka

Then again they could have held onto Lopez and ransom him off now. How much would Lopez be worth to teams looking for a Center. Dallas is still out there and they are known to overpay for talent. Boston, Portland, Charlotte, Houston, and others still need centers.

I would have liked to see them try to trade for Noel in a 3-team deal. I'd take a up and coming talent over a declining talent on a major deal. You save $10m and gain a young player under restriction.

Most of your scenarios dont seem plausible...Hawks got a 1st rd pick for Teague...you and most on this board would have screamed bloddy murder if we gave up another draft pick

We have nothing on our roster as young and with the same potwntial as Oladipo....no way we get Ibaka...

Noel was being offered for a too 3 pick, we werent prying him away. Ultimately, you are overvaluing Lopez....

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:There was nothing wrong with trading Lopez but there is something wrong with getting back subpar value for him

What would have been on par value?

Platitudes just gum up the discourse.

Be specific.

a healthy Above average player/starter who is not over 30 yrs old or a 1st rd pick.

I have difficulty with "1st rd pick."

There are 30 first round picks, wildly varying in potential value. To lump them all together seems to lack specifics.

Now honest question. The NBA has given most teams significant cap room each of the next two seasons.

Add to that there is a fair number of center options on the free agent market, but high rent to low rent to everything in between.

Can you illustrate a scenario in which a team is giving up a healthy, above average player/starter under 30 for Lopez?

Lopez's impact can be approximated on the free agent market AND he requires $14m in cap space.

To me, giving up what you described as a rare, valuable player when you can simply buy most (if not all) of what Lopez brings doesn't make sense.

That's why I'm asking for a for instance - a team and a name player where i can weigh it on context and either say "oh yeah, I can see that, that makes sense for that team" or not.

Can you help out?

Atlanta, Miami, Detroit, Brooklyn, Pacers, Lakers have all signed centers so far, suggesting a need. Did any of these teams have a good player to give up that would have made a Lopez trade a better deal for them?

What if the knicks would have made a 3-way deal for Teague instead of Rose.

What about the pkg Orl gave up for Ibaka

Then again they could have held onto Lopez and ransom him off now. How much would Lopez be worth to teams looking for a Center. Dallas is still out there and they are known to overpay for talent. Boston, Portland, Charlotte, Houston, and others still need centers.

I would have liked to see them try to trade for Noel in a 3-team deal. I'd take a up and coming talent over a declining talent on a major deal. You save $10m and gain a young player under restriction.

Most of your scenarios dont seem plausible...Hawks got a 1st rd pick for Teague...you and most on this board would have screamed bloddy murder if we gave up another draft pick

We have nothing on our roster as young and with the same potwntial as Oladipo....no way we get Ibaka...

Noel was being offered for a too 3 pick, we werent prying him away. Ultimately, you are overvaluing Lopez....

We have a winner...

yellowboy90 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:There was nothing wrong with trading Lopez but there is something wrong with getting back subpar value for him

What would have been on par value?

Platitudes just gum up the discourse.

Be specific.

a healthy Above average player/starter who is not over 30 yrs old or a 1st rd pick.

I have difficulty with "1st rd pick."

There are 30 first round picks, wildly varying in potential value. To lump them all together seems to lack specifics.

Now honest question. The NBA has given most teams significant cap room each of the next two seasons.

Add to that there is a fair number of center options on the free agent market, but high rent to low rent to everything in between.

Can you illustrate a scenario in which a team is giving up a healthy, above average player/starter under 30 for Lopez?

Lopez's impact can be approximated on the free agent market AND he requires $14m in cap space.

To me, giving up what you described as a rare, valuable player when you can simply buy most (if not all) of what Lopez brings doesn't make sense.

That's why I'm asking for a for instance - a team and a name player where i can weigh it on context and either say "oh yeah, I can see that, that makes sense for that team" or not.

Can you help out?

Atlanta, Miami, Detroit, Brooklyn, Pacers, Lakers have all signed centers so far, suggesting a need. Did any of these teams have a good player to give up that would have made a Lopez trade a better deal for them?

What if the knicks would have made a 3-way deal for Teague instead of Rose.

What about the pkg Orl gave up for Ibaka

Then again they could have held onto Lopez and ransom him off now. How much would Lopez be worth to teams looking for a Center. Dallas is still out there and they are known to overpay for talent. Boston, Portland, Charlotte, Houston, and others still need centers.

I would have liked to see them try to trade for Noel in a 3-team deal. I'd take a up and coming talent over a declining talent on a major deal. You save $10m and gain a young player under restriction.

Most of your scenarios dont seem plausible...Hawks got a 1st rd pick for Teague...you and most on this board would have screamed bloddy murder if we gave up another draft pick

We have nothing on our roster as young and with the same potwntial as Oladipo....no way we get Ibaka...

Noel was being offered for a too 3 pick, we werent prying him away. Ultimately, you are overvaluing Lopez....

1) I already said I'd be okay with a Teague for Lopez trade a few months ago because I see them as similar players for their positions.

I didn't want Ibaka, I wanted Oladipo

Also, Philly offered more than just Noel for the Boston pick. Boston also wanted the Lakers unprotected pick to be included in the Noel trade. That's what killed the deal.

My bad on the Oladipo mix up, but nonetheless, I highly doubt a package centering around Lopez would get us Oladipo...Noel is a young, dynamic talent. We have nothing of value to philly....as i said, you may be overvauluing our pieces..

BTW, Just because you said it, doesnt mean Atl would have wanted a Lopez, Teague swap...especially when the Hawks and everyone knew the cap increase was available in the summer and Howard, the home town kid was available...

nixluva wrote:It's funny but I get the impression that some of us don't think that the Knicks don't also go over all the possible trade scenarios in their meetings. If we can think of it, trust me, they most likely have thought of it too. It's not like they just think of only the deals we see them actually make. They have most likely gone over tons of trades ideas and also made calls about them. Maybe they don't think of every single idea we come up with but I bet quite a few have been on their boards.