CrushAlot wrote:The free agents that the Knicks were rumored to be targeting before the Rose trade, Conley, Bazemore, BAtum, and Fournier all stayed with their teams and are getting paid a lot. Bazemore got 4 yrs 70 mil. Solomon Hill got 52 mil. Crazy stuff. The Rose trade seems like a much better move to me after seeing these deals and the lack of movement for a lot of guys. Also, Turner at 4yrs and 70 mil.

With all the complaining it seems that people aren't actually paying attention to how things have gone. Phil knows how this works and he made a move to lock in a PG rather than take chances on the FA Market.

Rose and Noah won't have to carry the load with other talent around them. They just need to help facilitate things, which they are more than capable of doing. Initiate the break, early offense, moving the ball, attacking the paint. This can be a top team in the East if they can round out this roster.

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

2nd round exit is pretty generous. Barring anything unexpected happening, like us signing a good player, or Porzingis making the leap to superstardom I think there's a really good chance that we don't make the playoffs. In fact, based on what's expected to happen with the rest of free agency I almost expect us to be worse than last season.

What is it about this team that makes you think they won't make the playoffs? I haven't seen anyone that has suggested that poor of an outcome.

Derrick Rose is so bad he might actually be a downgrade from Calderon who's also awful. And I don't know who our backup is going to be but I don't have high hopes. Noah is, at best, a lateral move from Lopez; whatever improvement we'll get to our defense he'll subtract equally from our offense. And Noah will almost certainly get injured.

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

2nd round exit is pretty generous. Barring anything unexpected happening, like us signing a good player, or Porzingis making the leap to superstardom I think there's a really good chance that we don't make the playoffs. In fact, based on what's expected to happen with the rest of free agency I almost expect us to be worse than last season.

What is it about this team that makes you think they won't make the playoffs? I haven't seen anyone that has suggested that poor of an outcome.

Derrick Rose is so bad he might actually be a downgrade from Calderon who's also awful. And I don't know who our backup is going to be but I don't have high hopes. Noah is, at best, a lateral move from Lopez; whatever improvement we'll get to our defense he'll subtract equally from our offense. And Noah will almost certainly get injured.

Yeah, there's more upside now but there's a high chance that the team is actually worse than before these acquisitions.

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

2nd round exit is pretty generous. Barring anything unexpected happening, like us signing a good player, or Porzingis making the leap to superstardom I think there's a really good chance that we don't make the playoffs. In fact, based on what's expected to happen with the rest of free agency I almost expect us to be worse than last season.

What is it about this team that makes you think they won't make the playoffs? I haven't seen anyone that has suggested that poor of an outcome.

Derrick Rose is so bad he might actually be a downgrade from Calderon who's also awful. And I don't know who our backup is going to be but I don't have high hopes. Noah is, at best, a lateral move from Lopez; whatever improvement we'll get to our defense he'll subtract equally from our offense. And Noah will almost certainly get injured.

Yeah, there's more upside now but there's a high chance that the team is actually worse than before these acquisitions.

Wores than a 32 win team?

blkexec wrote:Right now the Knicks are in position to build the 2nd best team in the east after being one of the worst teams. On the low side they could be worst than last year if everybody gets injured at the same time. I'm fine with this risk since we have our pick next year. That's why this is a win.....win.....situation for Phil. Smart move on his part to get rose and see the future. I've said this before.....Phil is playing chess. His moves sets up other moves. That's how Phil operates, even before he was the gm. Everybody was looking at rose injury history, and that's the checkers insight. But he used rose to JumpStart a mini super team while keeping our flexibility for next years draft and free agency. With that build strategy the only risk is injury (not age) which is a risk for everybody. But usually injuries come with stress. Rose and Noah didn't come here to be the main guys.....that's melo and KP. As complimentary pieces, its a low stress environment for them. The pressure is mostly on melo now..... Just like it was on lebron in Cleveland. Melo has a team of vets around him and the second best rookie and the best basketball mind as the gm.....and a respectable up and coming coach in hornacek.

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

2nd round exit is pretty generous. Barring anything unexpected happening, like us signing a good player, or Porzingis making the leap to superstardom I think there's a really good chance that we don't make the playoffs. In fact, based on what's expected to happen with the rest of free agency I almost expect us to be worse than last season.

What is it about this team that makes you think they won't make the playoffs? I haven't seen anyone that has suggested that poor of an outcome.

Derrick Rose is so bad he might actually be a downgrade from Calderon who's also awful. And I don't know who our backup is going to be but I don't have high hopes. Noah is, at best, a lateral move from Lopez; whatever improvement we'll get to our defense he'll subtract equally from our offense. And Noah will almost certainly get injured.

Yeah, there's more upside now but there's a high chance that the team is actually worse than before these acquisitions.

Wores than a 32 win team?

Possibly but that's not what I was arguing. With Grant and KP, I think the same roster would have won more games next year (maybe 38). So let's say I think there's a good chance the team does worse than that.

Ok. It happens. We get a lotto pick and have at least 36 million to spend in free agency. With guys like Westbrook and Curry on the market instead of Mike Conley. A losing season would suck but it would be a quick but seamless shift.

VCoug wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

2nd round exit is pretty generous. Barring anything unexpected happening, like us signing a good player, or Porzingis making the leap to superstardom I think there's a really good chance that we don't make the playoffs. In fact, based on what's expected to happen with the rest of free agency I almost expect us to be worse than last season.

What is it about this team that makes you think they won't make the playoffs? I haven't seen anyone that has suggested that poor of an outcome.

Derrick Rose is so bad he might actually be a downgrade from Calderon who's also awful. And I don't know who our backup is going to be but I don't have high hopes. Noah is, at best, a lateral move from Lopez; whatever improvement we'll get to our defense he'll subtract equally from our offense. And Noah will almost certainly get injured.

Yeah, there's more upside now but there's a high chance that the team is actually worse than before these acquisitions.

Wores than a 32 win team?

Possibly but that's not what I was arguing. With Grant and KP, I think the same roster would have won more games next year (maybe 38). So let's say I think there's a good chance the team does worse than that.

Ok. It happens. We get a lotto pick and have at least 36 million to spend in free agency. With guys like Westbrook and Curry on the market instead of Mike Conley. A losing season would suck but it would be a quick but seamless shift.

I'm sure Westbrook and Curry would be dying to come to a team that's been in the lottery for 4 straight seasons at that point.

So you are saying it is better to win now?

VCoug wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

2nd round exit is pretty generous. Barring anything unexpected happening, like us signing a good player, or Porzingis making the leap to superstardom I think there's a really good chance that we don't make the playoffs. In fact, based on what's expected to happen with the rest of free agency I almost expect us to be worse than last season.

What is it about this team that makes you think they won't make the playoffs? I haven't seen anyone that has suggested that poor of an outcome.

Derrick Rose is so bad he might actually be a downgrade from Calderon who's also awful. And I don't know who our backup is going to be but I don't have high hopes. Noah is, at best, a lateral move from Lopez; whatever improvement we'll get to our defense he'll subtract equally from our offense. And Noah will almost certainly get injured.

Yeah, there's more upside now but there's a high chance that the team is actually worse than before these acquisitions.

Wores than a 32 win team?

Possibly but that's not what I was arguing. With Grant and KP, I think the same roster would have won more games next year (maybe 38). So let's say I think there's a good chance the team does worse than that.

Ok. It happens. We get a lotto pick and have at least 36 million to spend in free agency. With guys like Westbrook and Curry on the market instead of Mike Conley. A losing season would suck but it would be a quick but seamless shift.

I'm sure Westbrook and Curry would be dying to come to a team that's been in the lottery for 4 straight seasons at that point.

So you are saying it is better to win now?

Sure, but that's not going to happen.

So you think we had a better chance to win with Calderon/Grant/Lopez than a Rose/Noah/Lee (Gordon) combo? I sure dont.

Bonn1997 wrote:

blkexec wrote:Right now the Knicks are in position to build the 2nd best team in the east after being one of the worst teams. On the low side they could be worst than last year if everybody gets injured at the same time. I'm fine with this risk since we have our pick next year. That's why this is a win.....win.....situation for Phil. Smart move on his part to get rose and see the future. I've said this before.....Phil is playing chess. His moves sets up other moves. That's how Phil operates, even before he was the gm. Everybody was looking at rose injury history, and that's the checkers insight. But he used rose to JumpStart a mini super team while keeping our flexibility for next years draft and free agency. With that build strategy the only risk is injury (not age) which is a risk for everybody. But usually injuries come with stress. Rose and Noah didn't come here to be the main guys.....that's melo and KP. As complimentary pieces, its a low stress environment for them. The pressure is mostly on melo now..... Just like it was on lebron in Cleveland. Melo has a team of vets around him and the second best rookie and the best basketball mind as the gm.....and a respectable up and coming coach in hornacek.

They'd probably still be a lottery team if Rose and Noah simply repeat their production from last year. (I'm talking about Noah's production before the shoulder injury and Rose's overall season #s.)

Of course, since we need them to carry our team. If only we had more good players...

Bonn1997 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

VCoug wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's like I wrote this article or something.

His concerns are my concerns. Instead of sitting put and filling out the roster with filler, we're about to ruin our cap for next year. Instead of 60-65m to sign 2 max studs, we can only offer 1.

Today proved players are willing to jump ship if the money and opportunity presented itself.

Shame we're going in another direction.

Yep, exactly what I have been trying to say as well. We wasted our assets for a middling second round exit team. Unless of course like the author suggests we are competing for the 2012 conference finals in which case success is assured.

2nd round exit is pretty generous. Barring anything unexpected happening, like us signing a good player, or Porzingis making the leap to superstardom I think there's a really good chance that we don't make the playoffs. In fact, based on what's expected to happen with the rest of free agency I almost expect us to be worse than last season.

What is it about this team that makes you think they won't make the playoffs? I haven't seen anyone that has suggested that poor of an outcome.

Derrick Rose is so bad he might actually be a downgrade from Calderon who's also awful. And I don't know who our backup is going to be but I don't have high hopes. Noah is, at best, a lateral move from Lopez; whatever improvement we'll get to our defense he'll subtract equally from our offense. And Noah will almost certainly get injured.

Yeah, there's more upside now but there's a high chance that the team is actually worse than before these acquisitions.

Wores than a 32 win team?

Possibly but that's not what I was arguing. With Grant and KP, I think the same roster would have won more games next year (maybe 38). So let's say I think there's a good chance the team does worse than that.

Ok. It happens. We get a lotto pick and have at least 36 million to spend in free agency. With guys like Westbrook and Curry on the market instead of Mike Conley. A losing season would suck but it would be a quick but seamless shift.

I'm sure Westbrook and Curry would be dying to come to a team that's been in the lottery for 4 straight seasons at that point.

So you are saying it is better to win now?

Sure, but that's not going to happen.

So you think we had a better chance to win with Calderon/Grant/Lopez than a Rose/Noah/Lee (Gordon) combo? I sure dont.

No, I think we need to do a legit rebuild and *eventually* the top FAs will want to come here. The shortcut starphucks don't work. There was no way a .390 team in 12 months could be so appealing that guys with unlimited options would want to come here.

I get that but people were killing Phil for colllecting all these young players and no stars remember? Ideally yes, a traditional rebuild is ideal but this team has been so bad for so long, 16 years now, and Phil was so far behind the 8 ball when he got hired i dont think there is the option of signing on for another 5 years of bad basketball just to build a base.

I think these "shortcut starphucks" are based on perspective of expectation. I know i dont expect Rose to be MVP Rose, but give me Mike Conley level numbers, I'm ok. Noah does need to be DPOY Noah, but give me 8 and 9 and that passing out of the post and some solid D and Im good.