crzymdups wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:**** lin. what he did to this franchise with the whole poison pill was a joke, a big FU to the fans. in no way do i want him anywhere near this team.

how soon we forget... Melo made him do that

lol... oops, how could i have left that part of history out? people took blaming things on melo to a whole new level when they blamed him for that.

On both sides it was a joke - "Lin ***MADE*** the Rockets offer him a poison pill"

In reality it was just a bad contract offered by the Rockets. That's the only way you can steal an RFA - to offer a really bad contract.

Sort of like, a ridiculous contract?

GustavBahler wrote:I doubt Dolan is so forgiving. Hope Lin looks for marketing opportunities elsewhere.

Yeah, like making movies with Starbury.

jrodmc wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks really wanted him back they could have offered him a deal up front, instead of telling him to go find a deal. You think Lin would've turned down 3yr/$18M? Knicks never offered him a deal!

Actually no.

Due to the intricacies of restricted free agency, they could not have done that. They didn't have the cap space and he wasn't a full Bird free agent.

CBA rules allowed them to match much more than they had to offer outright. They wanted him to go out there and sign an offer sheet that league rules would allow them to match on purpose.

But he went and go the so-called "poison pill" deal, rather than just a standard one.

Stop inserting facts into the LinLove fest. We all see what a mistake it was not to have Lin here. Remember what great memories he created during the playoffs? Oh wait...

They're not facts.

Here are some facts -

Q.
Why didn’t the Knicks simply outbid the Rockets, or lock up Lin sooner?

A.
They couldn’t. The Knicks were not permitted to give Lin an extension during the season. They had to wait for him to become a restricted free agent on July 1. Even then, they were constrained by the N.B.A.’s arcane cap rules. The most they could offer was $28.75 million over five years, or — to compare apples to apples — $16.13 million over three years. Only a rival team with cap room could give Lin the balloon payment. Again, for Lin to maximize his value, he had to play the market. Also, no contracts could be signed from July 1-10, so the Knicks had to wait while Lin tested the market.

Q.
Does this mean Lin wanted to leave?

A.
No, Lin never gave any indication that he wanted to leave New York. It is common for restricted free agents to solicit offers from other teams to drive up their price, even if they prefer to stay. In fact, this was the only way for Lin to maximize his value. It was a smart business move.

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/questions-abound-with-lin-in-the-balance/?_r=0

Knicks could have offered him 3yr $16M or 5yr $28M on July 1. They did not. They told him to go solicit offers. He did. Dolan got pissed about the poison pill and didn't sign it.

And THAT is factorial.

crzymdups wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:**** lin. what he did to this franchise with the whole poison pill was a joke, a big FU to the fans. in no way do i want him anywhere near this team.

how soon we forget... Melo made him do that

lol... oops, how could i have left that part of history out? people took blaming things on melo to a whole new level when they blamed him for that.

On both sides it was a joke - "Lin ***MADE*** the Rockets offer him a poison pill"

In reality it was just a bad contract offered by the Rockets. That's the only way you can steal an RFA - to offer a really bad contract. That's why I shake my head when people here want to offer Crabbe the max to "steal" him from Portland. In reality, you're just overpaying. And probably hurting the development of a young player's career because they feel like they have to live up to the contract and probably can't.

i totally agree about offering RFA's bad contracts, its a real risk. lin didn't have to sign that deal though, if he TRULY wanted to play for the knicks, he would not have signed that deal. bringing that deal back to dolan was the nail in the coffin him staying here. i just wish lin would have called it like it was, which was that he was more interested in getting paid (i don't blame him one iota for that) and not pretending like it was all about staying with the knicks. dude got paid and i dont think anyone here will argue that point of the deal. he tried to make himself look blameless and like the good guy in it - it's not what it was.

If the Knicks really wanted him back they could have offered him a deal up front, instead of telling him to go find a deal. You think Lin would've turned down 3yr/$18M? Knicks never offered him a deal!

And it is pretty easy to yell about someone being interested in money... man, if someone in Houston offered me $25M, I'd tell my current job - "yo homes, smell ya later!"

Anyway, it's all in the past, but trying to blame Lin for the fact that the Knicks didn't offer him a deal and Houston did is absurd. It was poor management by the Knicks. Full stop. Anything else is spin that is pretty easy to poke holes in.

Yup. I really don't understand the views of other fans when they say Lin was to blame for the poison pill contract. It was the only contract offered to him. The Knicks front office told him to find other teams to set his contract value. Woody told him they will match all the way to a billion.

NYKBocker wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks really wanted him back they could have offered him a deal up front, instead of telling him to go find a deal. You think Lin would've turned down 3yr/$18M? Knicks never offered him a deal!

Actually no.

Due to the intricacies of restricted free agency, they could not have done that. They didn't have the cap space and he wasn't a full Bird free agent.

CBA rules allowed them to match much more than they had to offer outright. They wanted him to go out there and sign an offer sheet that league rules would allow them to match on purpose.

But he went and go the so-called "poison pill" deal, rather than just a standard one.

Stop inserting facts into the LinLove fest. We all see what a mistake it was not to have Lin here. Remember what great memories he created during the playoffs? Oh wait...

They're not facts.

Here are some facts -

Q.
Why didn’t the Knicks simply outbid the Rockets, or lock up Lin sooner?

A.
They couldn’t. The Knicks were not permitted to give Lin an extension during the season. They had to wait for him to become a restricted free agent on July 1. Even then, they were constrained by the N.B.A.’s arcane cap rules. The most they could offer was $28.75 million over five years, or — to compare apples to apples — $16.13 million over three years. Only a rival team with cap room could give Lin the balloon payment. Again, for Lin to maximize his value, he had to play the market. Also, no contracts could be signed from July 1-10, so the Knicks had to wait while Lin tested the market.

Q.
Does this mean Lin wanted to leave?

A.
No, Lin never gave any indication that he wanted to leave New York. It is common for restricted free agents to solicit offers from other teams to drive up their price, even if they prefer to stay. In fact, this was the only way for Lin to maximize his value. It was a smart business move.

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/questions-abound-with-lin-in-the-balance/?_r=0

Knicks could have offered him 3yr $16M or 5yr $28M on July 1. They did not. They told him to go solicit offers. He did. Dolan got pissed about the poison pill and didn't sign it.

And THAT is factorial.

That's all fair enough and I'm glad for the additional details.

The point was Lin going out and seeking the deal the Knicks could only match and not offer him outright was a mutually agreed upon strategy.

That Lin would have accepted what the Knicks were limited to offering him had they not instructed him to go field offers is purely conjecture.

He was a marketing, ratings goldmine at the time. I think he felt justified to maximize his value and by all reports the Knicks agreed with him.

Again, the point is I don't see a scenario in which the Knicks screwed up. To say he would have accepted 3/$16m without fielding offers sheets is a dubious conclusion.

The smart play for the Knicks was to offer it to him before going to the market. We will never know if he would have accepted it or not.

The Knicks knew.

The player was on their roster. They had conversations with his agent. They didn't come up with the strategy on their own.

If fans want to cling to the idea that the Knicks and Lin were opposing forces trying to guess one another's next move and Lin wouldn't have jumped at what would have been a minimum offer without testing the market, enjoy that version of events.

WaltLongmire wrote:Lin does not want to come back to the Knicks (unless we offer him some kind of max contract, of course)...this is a reporter inspired story, and Lin is probably looking to amp up his value in the way he responded.

Let his people make a pronouncement about wanting to be here...the kind of thing Thibs did- until then this talk is a waste of time.

And lets not rewrite history...Anthony and JR took hits for commenting on how the contract was a bit ridiculous, something neither should have done at the time-they should have kept their mouths shut. Hahn has talked about the fact that Lin was not loved on that team, but you still keep quiet.

Lin, on the other hand, was someone I wanted back at the time, but in my mind he was complicit in pushing Houston to come up with that contract that made it impossible for us to resign him. The guy had a great situation in NY, even if there was friction between he and Melo.

Choosing to stay out of the playoffs was an indication that he was out for himself more than helping his team, and that alone makes me dislike him. Same thing happened with the Jets and John Abraham, who was in a similar situation for the playoffs, and as soon as he did it I wanted him off the team.

Any "interest" Lin has in coming to the Knicks is about building up a market for himself. He outplayed his contract in Charlotte, and deserves a raise, but even though Linsanity was a great moment in the recent history of the team, I don't think I would want the guy back, for anything more than a small contract-much less than he would want, I expect.

Lin and MSG were never compatible.
He is too smart to be a slave of a bunch of corrupt bureaucrats even a slave who eats from golden platter like Melo.
The organization is changing a bit but the culture is not getting changed overnight.
Even if Phil will be able to destroy this snake nest this will take long time.
So Lin should not come back under any consequences.

Knickoftime wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks really wanted him back they could have offered him a deal up front, instead of telling him to go find a deal. You think Lin would've turned down 3yr/$18M? Knicks never offered him a deal!

Actually no.

Due to the intricacies of restricted free agency, they could not have done that. They didn't have the cap space and he wasn't a full Bird free agent.

CBA rules allowed them to match much more than they had to offer outright. They wanted him to go out there and sign an offer sheet that league rules would allow them to match on purpose.

But he went and go the so-called "poison pill" deal, rather than just a standard one.

Stop inserting facts into the LinLove fest. We all see what a mistake it was not to have Lin here. Remember what great memories he created during the playoffs? Oh wait...

They're not facts.

Here are some facts -

Q.
Why didn’t the Knicks simply outbid the Rockets, or lock up Lin sooner?

A.
They couldn’t. The Knicks were not permitted to give Lin an extension during the season. They had to wait for him to become a restricted free agent on July 1. Even then, they were constrained by the N.B.A.’s arcane cap rules. The most they could offer was $28.75 million over five years, or — to compare apples to apples — $16.13 million over three years. Only a rival team with cap room could give Lin the balloon payment. Again, for Lin to maximize his value, he had to play the market. Also, no contracts could be signed from July 1-10, so the Knicks had to wait while Lin tested the market.

Q.
Does this mean Lin wanted to leave?

A.
No, Lin never gave any indication that he wanted to leave New York. It is common for restricted free agents to solicit offers from other teams to drive up their price, even if they prefer to stay. In fact, this was the only way for Lin to maximize his value. It was a smart business move.

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/questions-abound-with-lin-in-the-balance/?_r=0

Knicks could have offered him 3yr $16M or 5yr $28M on July 1. They did not. They told him to go solicit offers. He did. Dolan got pissed about the poison pill and didn't sign it.

And THAT is factorial.

That's all fair enough and I'm glad for the additional details.

The point was Lin going out and seeking the deal the Knicks could only match and not offer him outright was a mutually agreed upon strategy.

That Lin would have accepted what the Knicks were limited to offering him had they not instructed him to go field offers is purely conjecture.

He was a marketing, ratings goldmine at the time. I think he felt justified to maximize his value and by all reports the Knicks agreed with him.

Again, the point is I don't see a scenario in which the Knicks screwed up. To say he would have accepted 3/$16m without fielding offers sheets is a dubious conclusion.

The smart play for the Knicks was to offer it to him before going to the market. We will never know if he would have accepted it or not.

The Knicks knew.

The player was on their roster. They had conversations with his agent. They didn't come up with the strategy on their own.

If fans want to cling to the idea that the Knicks and Lin were opposing forces trying to guess one another's next move and Lin wouldn't have jumped at what would have been a minimum offer without testing the market, enjoy that version of events.

So if it was the Knicks strategy... why did they get mad again? Because Lin *MADE* Houston add the poison pill year? Gotcha!

crzymdups wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Lin does not want to come back to the Knicks (unless we offer him some kind of max contract, of course)...this is a reporter inspired story, and Lin is probably looking to amp up his value in the way he responded.

Let his people make a pronouncement about wanting to be here...the kind of thing Thibs did- until then this talk is a waste of time.

And lets not rewrite history...Anthony and JR took hits for commenting on how the contract was a bit ridiculous, something neither should have done at the time-they should have kept their mouths shut. Hahn has talked about the fact that Lin was not loved on that team, but you still keep quiet.

Lin, on the other hand, was someone I wanted back at the time, but in my mind he was complicit in pushing Houston to come up with that contract that made it impossible for us to resign him. The guy had a great situation in NY, even if there was friction between he and Melo.

Choosing to stay out of the playoffs was an indication that he was out for himself more than helping his team, and that alone makes me dislike him.

+1
This is so nicely and consistently ignored by the rabid LinLovers who want to cream endlessly over the two week "moment", like it was on par with the first time they got a hand job by the hot girl at recess.

So do you guys hate Derrick Rose already? He did the same thing in Chicago.

Personally I think a guy's long term health is more important and I like DRose and JLin and understand their decisions.

You are actually comparing a league MVP and a guy who had actually PLAYED in the playoffs to JLin's 15 minutes of fame run with the Knicks? Seriously? Doubled up on the meds by mistake this morning maybe?

crzymdups wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks really wanted him back they could have offered him a deal up front, instead of telling him to go find a deal. You think Lin would've turned down 3yr/$18M? Knicks never offered him a deal!

Actually no.

Due to the intricacies of restricted free agency, they could not have done that. They didn't have the cap space and he wasn't a full Bird free agent.

CBA rules allowed them to match much more than they had to offer outright. They wanted him to go out there and sign an offer sheet that league rules would allow them to match on purpose.

But he went and go the so-called "poison pill" deal, rather than just a standard one.

Stop inserting facts into the LinLove fest. We all see what a mistake it was not to have Lin here. Remember what great memories he created during the playoffs? Oh wait...

They're not facts.

Here are some facts -

Q.
Why didn’t the Knicks simply outbid the Rockets, or lock up Lin sooner?

A.
They couldn’t. The Knicks were not permitted to give Lin an extension during the season. They had to wait for him to become a restricted free agent on July 1. Even then, they were constrained by the N.B.A.’s arcane cap rules. The most they could offer was $28.75 million over five years, or — to compare apples to apples — $16.13 million over three years. Only a rival team with cap room could give Lin the balloon payment. Again, for Lin to maximize his value, he had to play the market. Also, no contracts could be signed from July 1-10, so the Knicks had to wait while Lin tested the market.

Q.
Does this mean Lin wanted to leave?

A.
No, Lin never gave any indication that he wanted to leave New York. It is common for restricted free agents to solicit offers from other teams to drive up their price, even if they prefer to stay. In fact, this was the only way for Lin to maximize his value. It was a smart business move.

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/questions-abound-with-lin-in-the-balance/?_r=0

Knicks could have offered him 3yr $16M or 5yr $28M on July 1. They did not. They told him to go solicit offers. He did. Dolan got pissed about the poison pill and didn't sign it.

And THAT is factorial.

That's all fair enough and I'm glad for the additional details.

The point was Lin going out and seeking the deal the Knicks could only match and not offer him outright was a mutually agreed upon strategy.

That Lin would have accepted what the Knicks were limited to offering him had they not instructed him to go field offers is purely conjecture.

He was a marketing, ratings goldmine at the time. I think he felt justified to maximize his value and by all reports the Knicks agreed with him.

Again, the point is I don't see a scenario in which the Knicks screwed up. To say he would have accepted 3/$16m without fielding offers sheets is a dubious conclusion.

The smart play for the Knicks was to offer it to him before going to the market. We will never know if he would have accepted it or not.

The Knicks knew.

The player was on their roster. They had conversations with his agent. They didn't come up with the strategy on their own.

If fans want to cling to the idea that the Knicks and Lin were opposing forces trying to guess one another's next move and Lin wouldn't have jumped at what would have been a minimum offer without testing the market, enjoy that version of events.

So if it was the Knicks strategy... why did they get mad again? Because Lin *MADE* Houston add the poison pill year? Gotcha!

Knicks thought Lin had market value greater than they could offer, but not as much as Morey wound up offering the second time.

I don't know exactly what the Knicks or Dolan's position towards Lin was/is, but if I had to guess I'd say it's possible they thought he'd go out, get himself more money which the Knicks would gladly pay, but NOT sign an offer sheet that has such noxious luxury tax implications.

Perhaps they naively thought Lin would go out, get himself more cash with their blessing, but was motivated to stay in NY and wouldn't make it so difficult for them to swallow that last year.

But again, to argue Lin would have signed for less (when he could have with Houston, the first offer they gave him) had the Knicks just offered just seems pointless. It's by definition fantasy - a textbook what if/if only ignoring the implications of what actually occurred.

But I admit i can't prove the fantasy might not have happened, so I won't even try.