shinmen wrote:Unless, Phil can entice a good rebounder and defender(who can stay on the court more thant 40 games) as center to replace Lopez, what we could gain from DRose, we'll lose it on the defensive end. I read an article our defense was 10th in the league despite our perimeter defense.

GustavBahler wrote:I dont believe we will know until next summer. The Knicks future hinges IMO on what Phil does with Rose.

Signing Derrick Rose for Max years, Max dollars next summer would be no different than any other quick fix previous Knick GMs have foisted on fans over the past decade. The player that used to be Derrick Rose has been a shell of his former self for the last 4 years. Derrick has been one of the worst in the league, if not the worst at his position. Right now he is Derrick Rose in name only (no Shakespeare please)

Rose might have shown some signs of life here and there, but not enough to be anything but very wary of a long term deal. If this were one knee surgery, one bad season, talking a chance on Rose would be worth the gamble. I dont care how old he is, Im sure Rose's knees are a lot older.

What I dont know, and no one here knows, is how well Rose has to play to get that big contract he has been telling the media that he cant wait to sign. Will journeyman numbers be enough? Slightly better? Something closer to the old Derrick Rose? No one really knows, and anyone who says they do is lying. How good is enough for Phil to give someone who has shown they can't stay on the court the Max? We wont know that until next summer, until then the jury is out.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont believe we will know until next summer. The Knicks future hinges IMO on what Phil does with Rose.

Signing Derrick Rose for Max years, Max dollars next summer would be no different than any other quick fix previous Knick GMs have foisted on fans over the past decade. The player that used to be Derrick Rose has been a shell of his former self for the last 4 years. Derrick has been one of the worst in the league, if not the worst at his position. Right now he is Derrick Rose in name only (no Shakespeare please)

Rose might have shown some signs of life here and there, but not enough to be anything but very wary of a long term deal. If this were one knee surgery, one bad season, talking a chance on Rose would be worth the gamble. I dont care how old he is, Im sure Rose's knees are a lot older.

What I dont know, and no one here knows, is how well Rose has to play to get that big contract he has been telling the media that he cant wait to sign. Will journeyman numbers be enough? Slightly better? Something closer to the old Derrick Rose? No one really knows, and anyone who says they do is lying. How good is enough for Phil to give someone who has shown they can't stay on the court the Max? We wont know that until next summer, until then the jury is out.

so no matter what happens Phil gets an F if Rose plays his way into a big extension?

Would you give him the Max? What is your criteria for a contract extension? I didnt want to give Melo max years either for the same reasons, age, injuries, cap hit. With Rose the risk is even greater.

Average fan: "Since I don't know the future, I don't know what Phil is doing, thus I fear what I don't know. Since it has gone wrong in the past, It must go wrong in the future. since I get most of my info from the media, I am manipulated by fear/anger articles".

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont believe we will know until next summer. The Knicks future hinges IMO on what Phil does with Rose.

Signing Derrick Rose for Max years, Max dollars next summer would be no different than any other quick fix previous Knick GMs have foisted on fans over the past decade. The player that used to be Derrick Rose has been a shell of his former self for the last 4 years. Derrick has been one of the worst in the league, if not the worst at his position. Right now he is Derrick Rose in name only (no Shakespeare please)

Rose might have shown some signs of life here and there, but not enough to be anything but very wary of a long term deal. If this were one knee surgery, one bad season, talking a chance on Rose would be worth the gamble. I dont care how old he is, Im sure Rose's knees are a lot older.

What I dont know, and no one here knows, is how well Rose has to play to get that big contract he has been telling the media that he cant wait to sign. Will journeyman numbers be enough? Slightly better? Something closer to the old Derrick Rose? No one really knows, and anyone who says they do is lying. How good is enough for Phil to give someone who has shown they can't stay on the court the Max? We wont know that until next summer, until then the jury is out.

so no matter what happens Phil gets an F if Rose plays his way into a big extension?

Would you give him the Max? What is your criteria for a contract extension? I didnt want to give Melo max years either for the same reasons, age, injuries, cap hit. With Rose the risk is even greater.

It seems like Phil is hot on the trail of Joakim Noah. I think he'd be a great fit for the Knicks. His passing and hustle would be very good for the team and his passion on D would help tremendously. He would give the team a lot of what RoLo gave us but with the addition of more speed and great passing.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont believe we will know until next summer. The Knicks future hinges IMO on what Phil does with Rose.

Signing Derrick Rose for Max years, Max dollars next summer would be no different than any other quick fix previous Knick GMs have foisted on fans over the past decade. The player that used to be Derrick Rose has been a shell of his former self for the last 4 years. Derrick has been one of the worst in the league, if not the worst at his position. Right now he is Derrick Rose in name only (no Shakespeare please)

Rose might have shown some signs of life here and there, but not enough to be anything but very wary of a long term deal. If this were one knee surgery, one bad season, talking a chance on Rose would be worth the gamble. I dont care how old he is, Im sure Rose's knees are a lot older.

What I dont know, and no one here knows, is how well Rose has to play to get that big contract he has been telling the media that he cant wait to sign. Will journeyman numbers be enough? Slightly better? Something closer to the old Derrick Rose? No one really knows, and anyone who says they do is lying. How good is enough for Phil to give someone who has shown they can't stay on the court the Max? We wont know that until next summer, until then the jury is out.

so no matter what happens Phil gets an F if Rose plays his way into a big extension?

Would you give him the Max? What is your criteria for a contract extension? I didnt want to give Melo max years either for the same reasons, age, injuries, cap hit. With Rose the risk is even greater.

For some reason I don't believe Phil will give Rose a long term Max Contract, tho it would likely be a very large contract. Rose will never be the exact same MVP level guy he was so I doubt very much Phil would pay him like he was. If Rose balls out relative to his current diminished ability he will get some good money but I can imagine there will be some kind of protection for the team against his next injury, which at his age and with his knee history is very likely. He's gonna need to get at least a scope to clean out the knee at some point. That's just normal for guys that have had knee surgery. The good news is that he supposedly had a great checkup and the Knicks were pleasantly surprised by his condition.

It seems like Phil is hot on the trail of Joakim Noah. I think he'd be a great fit for the Knicks. His passing and hustle would be very good for the team and his passion on D would help tremendously. He would give the team a lot of what RoLo gave us but with the addition of more speed and great passing.

I hope Phil is that sensible. Rose has made it clear that he wants to sign a big deal. I just hope Phil doesn't get seduced by one good season. I understand its hard to sit on your hands when you see players like Curry/Westbrook/Iriving doing their thing.

Drose I would guess made problems with his team when he was practicing full and then not suiting up. History tells us players come back too soon have problems.
The 100mm question will be what is his outlook given the condition of his knee after this season? Its easy to extrapolate his problems going forward, but we just going to have to see.

One can only hope there is more than we know being orchestrated. Usually its not.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont believe we will know until next summer. The Knicks future hinges IMO on what Phil does with Rose.

Signing Derrick Rose for Max years, Max dollars next summer would be no different than any other quick fix previous Knick GMs have foisted on fans over the past decade. The player that used to be Derrick Rose has been a shell of his former self for the last 4 years. Derrick has been one of the worst in the league, if not the worst at his position. Right now he is Derrick Rose in name only (no Shakespeare please)

Rose might have shown some signs of life here and there, but not enough to be anything but very wary of a long term deal. If this were one knee surgery, one bad season, talking a chance on Rose would be worth the gamble. I dont care how old he is, Im sure Rose's knees are a lot older.

What I dont know, and no one here knows, is how well Rose has to play to get that big contract he has been telling the media that he cant wait to sign. Will journeyman numbers be enough? Slightly better? Something closer to the old Derrick Rose? No one really knows, and anyone who says they do is lying. How good is enough for Phil to give someone who has shown they can't stay on the court the Max? We wont know that until next summer, until then the jury is out.

so no matter what happens Phil gets an F if Rose plays his way into a big extension?

Would you give him the Max? What is your criteria for a contract extension? I didnt want to give Melo max years either for the same reasons, age, injuries, cap hit. With Rose the risk is even greater.

there are scenarios where yes.. I would give him a big extension. You didn't answer my question though... Rose is 27. There is no scenario you extend him? Its just dump the garbage at year's end else this is just an epic failure?

I mentioned it the last time we had this discussion. 2-3 years at max dollars would be the most I would want to offer him, there has to be an out. If Rose starts breaking down on a max contract, there wont be one.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I dont believe we will know until next summer. The Knicks future hinges IMO on what Phil does with Rose.

Signing Derrick Rose for Max years, Max dollars next summer would be no different than any other quick fix previous Knick GMs have foisted on fans over the past decade. The player that used to be Derrick Rose has been a shell of his former self for the last 4 years. Derrick has been one of the worst in the league, if not the worst at his position. Right now he is Derrick Rose in name only (no Shakespeare please)

Rose might have shown some signs of life here and there, but not enough to be anything but very wary of a long term deal. If this were one knee surgery, one bad season, talking a chance on Rose would be worth the gamble. I dont care how old he is, Im sure Rose's knees are a lot older.

What I dont know, and no one here knows, is how well Rose has to play to get that big contract he has been telling the media that he cant wait to sign. Will journeyman numbers be enough? Slightly better? Something closer to the old Derrick Rose? No one really knows, and anyone who says they do is lying. How good is enough for Phil to give someone who has shown they can't stay on the court the Max? We wont know that until next summer, until then the jury is out.

so no matter what happens Phil gets an F if Rose plays his way into a big extension?

Would you give him the Max? What is your criteria for a contract extension? I didnt want to give Melo max years either for the same reasons, age, injuries, cap hit. With Rose the risk is even greater.

We basically gave up Grant for a one year look at Rose and his bird rights as well as full medical knowledge privy to his situation.
Ropez as a freebie. We gave up no future assets. we got back a serviceable Two, (Holiday and second round pick)
So basically your afraid we end up with another Amare situation. THat is logical, but not one medical situation with one mans body is the same on anothers.
Also, who is to say his market price will be that high and another team will go max on him? We might decide on Westbrook? If KP has a monster year, the whole thing changes.