markvmc wrote:Makes you wish we had some way of getting a decent center on, say 12 million or so a year.

+1

oh ... btw ... how much range does a 120m noah have?

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Fans will see 95% of contracts as bad contracts this summer. The line of thinking has to be adjusted. 20 mil is the new 10 mil.

Right. Tyson Chandler signed a 4yr $60M deal with Phoenix two years ago. This 4yr $120M potential offer is not too far off from that, especially when you consider that years 2-4 of the deal the cap should be ~$110M or more, instead of the $55-60M it was just a few years ago.

your are flip flopping ... doesn't that make rolo's contract a steal??

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:Makes you wish we had some way of getting a decent center on, say 12 million or so a year.

Honestly, I'd rather have the potential of Rose. Much higher ceiling. If he flames out, we have our own pick in a stacked 2017 draft.

To me, Rolo is the type of player who locks you into being decent, but not really good enough to contend and not really bad enough to bottom out.

Fair enough. Though you and I obviously disagree in our assessments of Lopez. I doubt we'll be able to get that kind of value in terms of production:dollar with the new cap, though.

But, yes, to your point - Rolo's contract is going to look insanely cheap in about two weeks.

I just didn't love the way he and KP played together. I think teams figured out how to play the two of them. I didn't see it working going forward. Maybe I'm wrong...

But, yes, you are absolutely right that we will have a hard time replacing Rolo's production at anywhere near $13M a year.

This article from another thread talks a little about the Rolo issue that I wasn't able to articulate. But, yes to this quote:

For example, ROLO was gangbusters in the paint, taking 76% of his shots from there and shooting 5% above the league average, but he couldn't score from anywhere else, shooting anywhere from 2-15% from the baseline or elbow area. This means that ROLO's defender only has to guard him in he paint, and if ROLO tried to go anywhere else, the defender could simply stay in the painted area, making life difficult for Melo, KP, (each of whom took just over 50% of there shots from the paint) or anyone else that shot in the painted area after beating there defender.

Yes. This was Rolo's biggest offensive AND defensive weaknesses - he also couldn't guard anyone who had a faceup jumpshot outside of 15" (like his bro).

I have to tell you though, given his FT rate, I thought he could get a decent faceup shot with enough work.

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:so rolo could only shoot from within 15 feet and that is no good anymore? So are we all in agreement now that all big men need to be able to shoot 3's?

oh ... btw ... how much range does a 120m noah have?

He's a better passer. And he does have a jumper out to 15ft.

But I don't think it's rocket science or shocking to point out that Rolo's defender was able to pack the paint and it created spacing problems for Melo and KP.

Our offense looked much more fluid when Rolo was out and KP played 5 and Melo 4 towards the end of the year.

I think teams learned how to defend the Rolo / KP / Melo frontline.

Rolo was a very good piece and very efficient on offense and pretty dang good on D.

you may want to check the stats on that. What pct of Noah's shots were beyond 10 feet? 3-10? Compare that to lopez.

contradicting logic ... the lopez trade was the ultimate starphuck

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:Makes you wish we had some way of getting a decent center on, say 12 million or so a year.

Honestly, I'd rather have the potential of Rose. Much higher ceiling. If he flames out, we have our own pick in a stacked 2017 draft.

To me, Rolo is the type of player who locks you into being decent, but not really good enough to contend and not really bad enough to bottom out.

Fair enough. Though you and I obviously disagree in our assessments of Lopez. I doubt we'll be able to get that kind of value in terms of production:dollar with the new cap, though.

But, yes, to your point - Rolo's contract is going to look insanely cheap in about two weeks.

I just didn't love the way he and KP played together. I think teams figured out how to play the two of them. I didn't see it working going forward. Maybe I'm wrong...

But, yes, you are absolutely right that we will have a hard time replacing Rolo's production at anywhere near $13M a year.

This article from another thread talks a little about the Rolo issue that I wasn't able to articulate. But, yes to this quote:

For example, ROLO was gangbusters in the paint, taking 76% of his shots from there and shooting 5% above the league average, but he couldn't score from anywhere else, shooting anywhere from 2-15% from the baseline or elbow area. This means that ROLO's defender only has to guard him in he paint, and if ROLO tried to go anywhere else, the defender could simply stay in the painted area, making life difficult for Melo, KP, (each of whom took just over 50% of there shots from the paint) or anyone else that shot in the painted area after beating there defender.

Rolo did a lot of damage with that ugly hook shot of his. Made up for the lack of outside shooting. He did show that he could drain a jumper. Could have been encouraged to shoot more. Not a good enough reason to trade him IMO, not with all the other things he brought to the table. Not to mention his increasingly reasonable contract.

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:Makes you wish we had some way of getting a decent center on, say 12 million or so a year.

Honestly, I'd rather have the potential of Rose. Much higher ceiling. If he flames out, we have our own pick in a stacked 2017 draft.

To me, Rolo is the type of player who locks you into being decent, but not really good enough to contend and not really bad enough to bottom out.

Fair enough. Though you and I obviously disagree in our assessments of Lopez. I doubt we'll be able to get that kind of value in terms of production:dollar with the new cap, though.

But, yes, to your point - Rolo's contract is going to look insanely cheap in about two weeks.

I just didn't love the way he and KP played together. I think teams figured out how to play the two of them. I didn't see it working going forward. Maybe I'm wrong...

But, yes, you are absolutely right that we will have a hard time replacing Rolo's production at anywhere near $13M a year.

This article from another thread talks a little about the Rolo issue that I wasn't able to articulate. But, yes to this quote:

For example, ROLO was gangbusters in the paint, taking 76% of his shots from there and shooting 5% above the league average, but he couldn't score from anywhere else, shooting anywhere from 2-15% from the baseline or elbow area. This means that ROLO's defender only has to guard him in he paint, and if ROLO tried to go anywhere else, the defender could simply stay in the painted area, making life difficult for Melo, KP, (each of whom took just over 50% of there shots from the paint) or anyone else that shot in the painted area after beating there defender.

Rolo did a lot of damage with that ugly hook shot of his. Made up for the lack of outside shooting. He did show that he could drain a jumper. Could have been encouraged to shoot more. Not a good enough reason to trade him IMO, not with all the other things he brought to the table. Not to mention his increasingly reasonable contract.

If a starting center like Rolo/Noah is going to be worth $30M in free agency... how much will an all-star guard be worth? Or how hard will he be to get?

The Knicks had to take a risk to get a potential all-star guard - they are the hardest commodities to get in the entire league, because of how valuable they are. Most of them never even really hit free agency.

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

markvmc wrote:Makes you wish we had some way of getting a decent center on, say 12 million or so a year.

Honestly, I'd rather have the potential of Rose. Much higher ceiling. If he flames out, we have our own pick in a stacked 2017 draft.

To me, Rolo is the type of player who locks you into being decent, but not really good enough to contend and not really bad enough to bottom out.

Fair enough. Though you and I obviously disagree in our assessments of Lopez. I doubt we'll be able to get that kind of value in terms of production:dollar with the new cap, though.

But, yes, to your point - Rolo's contract is going to look insanely cheap in about two weeks.

I just didn't love the way he and KP played together. I think teams figured out how to play the two of them. I didn't see it working going forward. Maybe I'm wrong...

But, yes, you are absolutely right that we will have a hard time replacing Rolo's production at anywhere near $13M a year.

This article from another thread talks a little about the Rolo issue that I wasn't able to articulate. But, yes to this quote:

For example, ROLO was gangbusters in the paint, taking 76% of his shots from there and shooting 5% above the league average, but he couldn't score from anywhere else, shooting anywhere from 2-15% from the baseline or elbow area. This means that ROLO's defender only has to guard him in he paint, and if ROLO tried to go anywhere else, the defender could simply stay in the painted area, making life difficult for Melo, KP, (each of whom took just over 50% of there shots from the paint) or anyone else that shot in the painted area after beating there defender.

Rolo did a lot of damage with that ugly hook shot of his. Made up for the lack of outside shooting. He did show that he could drain a jumper. Could have been encouraged to shoot more. Not a good enough reason to trade him IMO, not with all the other things he brought to the table. Not to mention his increasingly reasonable contract.

If a starting center like Rolo/Noah is going to be worth $30M in free agency... how much will an all-star guard be worth? Or how hard will he be to get?

The Knicks had to take a risk to get a potential all-star guard - they are the hardest commodities to get in the entire league, because of how valuable they are. Most of them never even really hit free agency.

Lots of teams have cap room to burn through, this offer for Noah pretty much proves that. They could have waited a season for Rose to be an FA. They would have seen how Rose was faring on some other team's dime. Meanwhile our starting frontcourt would have been set with plenty of cap room to go after FAs. As I said have no problem with the idea of Rolo being traded, but not for damaged goods, not for an expiring contract.