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Derek rose move means this...
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CrushAlot
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6/22/2016  10:23 PM
Rookie wrote:Y'all are high. Rose will be traded again tomorrow on draft night
Yep. Knicks are getting their big butt and tall point guard from the Bucks. MCW and Monroe for Rose. Works on trade checker
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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Knixkik
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6/22/2016  10:23 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:...Phil might be the worst President the KNicks ever had.

I tend to agree. KP makes it a bit murky but Phil Jackson is TERRIBLE with trades.

Knicks got the best player in the trade who is only 27 years old and gave up no draft picks, and can let him go after the season if it doesn't work out. Seems low risk, high reward. Can't be considered a bad trade.
mreinman
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6/22/2016  10:24 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Rookie wrote:Y'all are high. Rose will be traded again tomorrow on draft night
Yep. Knicks are getting their big butt and tall point guard from the Bucks. MCW and Monroe for Rose. Works on trade checker

would be appropriate to essentially trade lopez for monroe since monroe is 100x better than lopez

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Jmpasq
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6/22/2016  10:54 PM
NYY1NYK2 wrote:K. Durant, Melo and Rose for the 3 amigos in NYC

The knicks now have a legit PG in Rose, therefore other players WANT to come here.

Sign Gasol or Noah, both of whom played with D. rose

Sign Bradley Beal, who gives you a nice core of melo,beal,rose

I think we get Gasol and another guard

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Jmpasq
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6/22/2016  10:57 PM
Paris907 wrote:My take on Rose.
1- it's a salary dump.
2- landing a guard like Teague or Batum or Beal or Rhondo or Conley all presented issues and the Knocks may not have been successful. Therefore MGT figured it's easier to appease the fans with Rose and see what happens in a year. Easier to get Howard, or Gasol or Noah than a guard plain and simple. Easier to replace Lopez than secure a guard and better guards available next year.

3- very smart deal by Phil. It can only attract other FAs to have KP Melo and Rose.

I think Rose still holds some weight around the NBA it could attract another player

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
sidsanders
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6/22/2016  11:01 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
Paris907 wrote:My take on Rose.
1- it's a salary dump.
2- landing a guard like Teague or Batum or Beal or Rhondo or Conley all presented issues and the Knocks may not have been successful. Therefore MGT figured it's easier to appease the fans with Rose and see what happens in a year. Easier to get Howard, or Gasol or Noah than a guard plain and simple. Easier to replace Lopez than secure a guard and better guards available next year.

3- very smart deal by Phil. It can only attract other FAs to have KP Melo and Rose.

I think Rose still holds some weight around the NBA it could attract another player

wouldnt you need him signed past this year to do that? if he is 1 and done (due to poor play or good play and he bolts, etc), what top line FA is gonna sign this year with that uncertainty. if anything they will sign despite his presence, or a crap load of $$$ does the trick.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
dk7th
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6/22/2016  11:25 PM
I see Rose as a salary dump too. It also means that the Knicks are going to bring in Hernangomez in an effort to get younger and continue a rebuild as they continue to look beyond Melo.
knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
CrushAlot
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6/22/2016  11:33 PM
dk7th wrote:I see Rose as a salary dump too. It also means that the Knicks are going to bring in Hernangomez in an effort to get younger and continue a rebuild as they continue to look beyond Melo.
Rose is a salary dump if he doesn't work out. Bringing in a guy like Rose is not a move beyond Melo though in my opinion. Bringing Rose is trying to win with Melo. If Noah or Pau is brought in it will continue the 'vet' movement.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
meloshouldgo
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6/22/2016  11:48 PM
dk7th wrote:I see Rose as a salary dump too. It also means that the Knicks are going to bring in Hernangomez in an effort to get younger and continue a rebuild as they continue to look beyond Melo.

That only holds if we don't give him a max contract with a NTC. Given our recent past, I wouldn't hold my breath.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
NardDogNation
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6/23/2016  12:11 AM
Knixkik wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:...Phil might be the worst President the KNicks ever had.

I tend to agree. KP makes it a bit murky but Phil Jackson is TERRIBLE with trades.

Knicks got the best player in the trade who is only 27 years old and gave up no draft picks, and can let him go after the season if it doesn't work out. Seems low risk, high reward. Can't be considered a bad trade.

Rose might not even be in the league in 2 seasons. How is he the better player? Raymond Felton- the guy that was so bad we simply couldn't waive him- has a higher WS/48 than Rose this past season. This guy is grossly damaged goods and we paid a high premium to get him.

Like I said, I honestly didn't mind Rose as a rental. I do mind Rose as a rental for assets because we are in no position to be doing favors for other teams.
NardDogNation
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6/23/2016  12:17 AM
BigRedDog wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
nixluva wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:...Phil might be the worst President the KNicks ever had.

I tend to agree. KP makes it a bit murky but Phil Jackson is TERRIBLE with trades.


You are both off your rockers!!! Can we at least see what happens with the rest of this summer's moves? This is not the final piece for this roster. It's one move to set up other moves. That and it still doesn't come with any risk. They end up with great cap space next summer in a great FA Class.

What moves do you know of that will happen because of this trade? Because at this point, not even Phil Jackson knows since we've put all our eggs into free agency which can be extremely unpredictable. All we know for sure is that we gave up the best player in the trade (Robin) and its best young player (Jerian Grant) but somehow happened to not walk away with at least a 1st rounder.

The best player in this trade is a 27yr old Rose. Lopez is an unathletic big man that can easily be replaced and who really didn't fit in with what the new coach wants to do. Which is to run more and push the pace. Rose is the best pg we have had since strickland.

No. The imaginery image you're conjuring up of Derrick Rose from years past would be the best player in this trade. The 27 year old one you see before you has a lower WS/48 than Raymond Felton....who I'm sure you used to justify trading Tyson Chandler for cents on the dollar.

And I find it interesting that Lopez is "easily replaced". There is a strong correlation between his arrival and teams formerly bad at defending the paint, becoming noticeably better. The cherry on top is that he recently discovered an offensive game, which got better and better as the season went along.
blkexec
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6/23/2016  1:27 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
nixluva wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:...Phil might be the worst President the KNicks ever had.

I tend to agree. KP makes it a bit murky but Phil Jackson is TERRIBLE with trades.


You are both off your rockers!!! Can we at least see what happens with the rest of this summer's moves? This is not the final piece for this roster. It's one move to set up other moves. That and it still doesn't come with any risk. They end up with great cap space next summer in a great FA Class.

What moves do you know of that will happen because of this trade? Because at this point, not even Phil Jackson knows since we've put all our eggs into free agency which can be extremely unpredictable. All we know for sure is that we gave up the best player in the trade (Robin) and its best young player (Jerian Grant) but somehow happened to not walk away with at least a 1st rounder.

The best player in this trade is a 27yr old Rose. Lopez is an unathletic big man that can easily be replaced and who really didn't fit in with what the new coach wants to do. Which is to run more and push the pace. Rose is the best pg we have had since strickland.

No. The imaginery image you're conjuring up of Derrick Rose from years past would be the best player in this trade. The 27 year old one you see before you has a lower WS/48 than Raymond Felton....who I'm sure you used to justify trading Tyson Chandler for cents on the dollar.

And I find it interesting that Lopez is "easily replaced". There is a strong correlation between his arrival and teams formerly bad at defending the paint, becoming noticeably better. The cherry on top is that he recently discovered an offensive game, which got better and better as the season went along.

One thing Knicks fans aren't used to is rebuilds. And during this rebuilding phase , its best to not to fall in love with any player. Rose could be dealt as an expering contract with vet appeal. So his value remains high. I'm just happy we have a GM not afraid to go against the grain. He might strike out, but at least he's swinging for the fences.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Clean
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6/23/2016  5:13 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:...Phil might be the worst President the KNicks ever had.

I tend to agree. KP makes it a bit murky but Phil Jackson is TERRIBLE with trades.

Yall are crazy. How easily we forget the many blunders of Isiah Thomas. I will not judge Phil on this move until I see what he does to follow up. Remember people killed Phil for signing Rolo in the 1st place. Now they like him so much they are killing Phil for trading him. No need to pass judgement on the 1st move of the off season. Lets see what he does from here on out.
NardDogNation
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6/23/2016  7:43 AM
blkexec wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
nixluva wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:...Phil might be the worst President the KNicks ever had.

I tend to agree. KP makes it a bit murky but Phil Jackson is TERRIBLE with trades.


You are both off your rockers!!! Can we at least see what happens with the rest of this summer's moves? This is not the final piece for this roster. It's one move to set up other moves. That and it still doesn't come with any risk. They end up with great cap space next summer in a great FA Class.

What moves do you know of that will happen because of this trade? Because at this point, not even Phil Jackson knows since we've put all our eggs into free agency which can be extremely unpredictable. All we know for sure is that we gave up the best player in the trade (Robin) and its best young player (Jerian Grant) but somehow happened to not walk away with at least a 1st rounder.

The best player in this trade is a 27yr old Rose. Lopez is an unathletic big man that can easily be replaced and who really didn't fit in with what the new coach wants to do. Which is to run more and push the pace. Rose is the best pg we have had since strickland.

No. The imaginery image you're conjuring up of Derrick Rose from years past would be the best player in this trade. The 27 year old one you see before you has a lower WS/48 than Raymond Felton....who I'm sure you used to justify trading Tyson Chandler for cents on the dollar.

And I find it interesting that Lopez is "easily replaced". There is a strong correlation between his arrival and teams formerly bad at defending the paint, becoming noticeably better. The cherry on top is that he recently discovered an offensive game, which got better and better as the season went along.

One thing Knicks fans aren't used to is rebuilds. And during this rebuilding phase , its best to not to fall in love with any player. Rose could be dealt as an expering contract with vet appeal. So his value remains high. I'm just happy we have a GM not afraid to go against the grain. He might strike out, but at least he's swinging for the fences.

There is a difference between understanding market value in this league and us not. Phil clearly doesn't. I don't mind a gamble at all. I do mind a gamble that involves high risk and a low rewadd. Case and point, trading for Tracy McGrady in 2010 was not a bad gamble. Giving up draft picks for a rental of Tracy McGrady was an incredibly stupid gamble. This Rose trade is in that same vein. I don't mind getting Rose...I do mind what we gave up to get him because it demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of value in this league.

You can try to spin it anyway you like but it won't change this fact. If all you're banking on is Rose being an expiring contract, half the league already has cap space making expiring contracts more useless than at any other point in league history. Anyway you dice it, it's a bad trade.
NardDogNation
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6/23/2016  7:49 AM
Clean wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:...Phil might be the worst President the KNicks ever had.

I tend to agree. KP makes it a bit murky but Phil Jackson is TERRIBLE with trades.

Yall are crazy. How easily we forget the many blunders of Isiah Thomas. I will not judge Phil on this move until I see what he does to follow up. Remember people killed Phil for signing Rolo in the 1st place. Now they like him so much they are killing Phil for trading him. No need to pass judgement on the 1st move of the off season. Lets see what he does from here on out.

Isiah actually built a cache of assets that included a two 2xtime all-stars in Zach Randolph and David Lee (both in their primes), a perennial 6th man of the year/contender in Jamal Crawford, and several valuable role players in Trevor Ariza and Wilson Chandler. Isiah's only problem was the Eddy Curry trade and a sexual harrassment suit that prevented him from transitioning from collecting assets to building an actual team. Phil wishes he could do that.

And please don't speculate about my positions in the past. I've never "killed Phil" from signing Robin Lopez. I thought it was an excellent move (along with everything else he did that offseason) that would look better with time. I give credit where credit is due. And what just went down eith Rose deserves no credit; only criticism. To make matters worse, this seems to be a trend involving trades because our only other one (involving Tyson) was similarly horrendous. As I said before, the old man needs to keep himself out of trade discussions because he is getting killed in them.
ESOMKnicks
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6/23/2016  3:41 PM
skoonix wrote:I'm ok with trading Lopez and Calderon but I am real sorry to see Grant leaving. I think he is full of potential and talent. Once he finally got to play more in the lost season of Fisher/Rambis he started to look real good out there. When Rose was healthy he was awesome but that was awhile ago - I am very concerned about his health

I think Grant will be the next Rod Strickland.
fishmike
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6/23/2016  3:50 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
blkexec wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
nixluva wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:...Phil might be the worst President the KNicks ever had.

I tend to agree. KP makes it a bit murky but Phil Jackson is TERRIBLE with trades.


You are both off your rockers!!! Can we at least see what happens with the rest of this summer's moves? This is not the final piece for this roster. It's one move to set up other moves. That and it still doesn't come with any risk. They end up with great cap space next summer in a great FA Class.

What moves do you know of that will happen because of this trade? Because at this point, not even Phil Jackson knows since we've put all our eggs into free agency which can be extremely unpredictable. All we know for sure is that we gave up the best player in the trade (Robin) and its best young player (Jerian Grant) but somehow happened to not walk away with at least a 1st rounder.

The best player in this trade is a 27yr old Rose. Lopez is an unathletic big man that can easily be replaced and who really didn't fit in with what the new coach wants to do. Which is to run more and push the pace. Rose is the best pg we have had since strickland.

No. The imaginery image you're conjuring up of Derrick Rose from years past would be the best player in this trade. The 27 year old one you see before you has a lower WS/48 than Raymond Felton....who I'm sure you used to justify trading Tyson Chandler for cents on the dollar.

And I find it interesting that Lopez is "easily replaced". There is a strong correlation between his arrival and teams formerly bad at defending the paint, becoming noticeably better. The cherry on top is that he recently discovered an offensive game, which got better and better as the season went along.

One thing Knicks fans aren't used to is rebuilds. And during this rebuilding phase , its best to not to fall in love with any player. Rose could be dealt as an expering contract with vet appeal. So his value remains high. I'm just happy we have a GM not afraid to go against the grain. He might strike out, but at least he's swinging for the fences.

There is a difference between understanding market value in this league and us not. Phil clearly doesn't. I don't mind a gamble at all. I do mind a gamble that involves high risk and a low rewadd. Case and point, trading for Tracy McGrady in 2010 was not a bad gamble. Giving up draft picks for a rental of Tracy McGrady was an incredibly stupid gamble. This Rose trade is in that same vein. I don't mind getting Rose...I do mind what we gave up to get him because it demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of value in this league.

You can try to spin it anyway you like but it won't change this fact. If all you're banking on is Rose being an expiring contract, half the league already has cap space making expiring contracts more useless than at any other point in league history. Anyway you dice it, it's a bad trade.

how is trading Rolo and Grant high risk? Thad Young who's value is similar to Lopez netted pick 20. Grant was pick #19 and had and had a very uninspiring rookie year. You act like we gave up unprotected picks and all our best young players.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Derek rose move means this...
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