BRIGGS wrote:If we pay him 20 mm then we are married to him. I'd R that wait until next years free agency where the Pickens will be better

EnySpree wrote:My issue is overpaying for a declining player. I don't want to do that. Plus I don't think Conley is that good to blow our cap on. The Derrick Rose idea is better because of the commitment.

The Hornacek comment says it all though. The Knicks are looking to add an established player at point guard.

Knicks arent winning anything with Conley, he is a nice player but the KNicks may be a 45 win team

fishmike wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

You see a max player here? He's not a 25 million dollar player in no shape or form. He's a good player but for half of that price. Nothing that's he's doing here is all that special.

I'm not sure what math you're getting $25M a year from. It's 4yr $92M max. First year of that deal would be ~$21M and about 20% of the cap. Five years ago when the cap was $55M that's the same as an $11M deal. New math for a new cap.

I'm about building a TEAM of COMPLIMENTARY parts. Conley would be a perfect complement to Melo and KP and even Rolo.

I'm all about building the team. We have Rolo, Melo under contract for 3yrs. Getting Conley for 4yrs would sync up nicely.

You need to watch a full Conley game to see the impact he has on offense, defense, etc. He would be a MASSIVE upgrade.

I'm about team building too.... a complimentary you just don't spend 21 million on a compliment.

you got that twisted... Conley would be core player. He's an excellent piece... complimentary only in that his skill set immediately makes the most important players on the Knicks BETTER. KP, Melo, Grant and Rolo all become better players. Thus he compliments them.

4 years $92 is overpaying, but not by a ton, and to me its a calculated overpay. Your not just throwing money at talent and hoping for the best (as we did with Amare and in recent years). Conley really is the attainable player that moves the needle the most. My only concern would be that achilles and his health, but if he checks out I would not hesitate. This would be money well spent.

He's also a good defensive player.

Everything for me right now is in the context of the future. I am ok with short term solutions and stop gaps so long as they are future looking. Conley improves us short term and long. I think NY would love him and he would be a fav Knick. Health scares me a bit but have to trust it was just bad timing

Even if it is an overpay this year, the market will re-caliberate itself next. For all we know Conley will be a value contract in 2 years time, which is possible when you consider that the cap is projected to jump again to $108 million. And when you consider that we have Jerian Grant behind him, concerns about Conley's achilles can be cast aside.

BRIGGS wrote:If we pay him 20 mm then we are married to him. I'd R that wait until next years free agency where the Pickens will be better

No we're not. Not unless we give him a no-trade clause, which I don't think is feasible. But a 4 year contract will encompass Conley's prime, so we can expect more of what he's done in the past...and what he's done has consistently been an honorable mention for the Western Conference all-star team.

Financially, Conley might be overpaid at 4yr/$92 million in 2016-2017 dollars but the cap will jump again for the 2017-2018 season. It's very well possible that once the market re-caliberates itself that Conley's deal turns into a sweetheart one. So needless to say, I don't see the money being an impediment if we could potentially get a better option for the position via trade.

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

You see a max player here? He's not a 25 million dollar player in no shape or form. He's a good player but for half of that price. Nothing that's he's doing here is all that special.

I'm not sure what math you're getting $25M a year from. It's 4yr $92M max. First year of that deal would be ~$21M and about 20% of the cap. Five years ago when the cap was $55M that's the same as an $11M deal. New math for a new cap.

I'm about building a TEAM of COMPLIMENTARY parts. Conley would be a perfect complement to Melo and KP and even Rolo.

I'm all about building the team. We have Rolo, Melo under contract for 3yrs. Getting Conley for 4yrs would sync up nicely.

You need to watch a full Conley game to see the impact he has on offense, defense, etc. He would be a MASSIVE upgrade.

I'm about team building too.... a complimentary you just don't spend 21 million on a compliment.

you got that twisted... Conley would be core player. He's an excellent piece... complimentary only in that his skill set immediately makes the most important players on the Knicks BETTER. KP, Melo, Grant and Rolo all become better players. Thus he compliments them.

4 years $92 is overpaying, but not by a ton, and to me its a calculated overpay. Your not just throwing money at talent and hoping for the best (as we did with Amare and in recent years). Conley really is the attainable player that moves the needle the most. My only concern would be that achilles and his health, but if he checks out I would not hesitate. This would be money well spent.

He's also a good defensive player.

Everything for me right now is in the context of the future. I am ok with short term solutions and stop gaps so long as they are future looking. Conley improves us short term and long. I think NY would love him and he would be a fav Knick. Health scares me a bit but have to trust it was just bad timing

Even if it is an overpay this year, the market will re-caliberate itself next. For all we know Conley will be a value contract in 2 years time, which is possible when you consider that the cap is projected to jump again to $108 million. And when you consider that we have Jerian Grant behind him, concerns about Conley's achilles can be cast aside.

I think Grant is the starter next to him. Grant has the size to guard 2s and played off the ball a ton at ND.
Not only that but I love the idea of a 2nd unit featuring Wroten and DWill... a couple of slashers and yes are you ready? Jose off the bench to spread the floor for those guys. That looks like an immediate upgrade not only in talent but in the roles you are asking them to play. Just thinking out loud here but the point is Conley allows you to do so much.

Yes, exactly - he's the perfect fit. Just cross those fingers. We'll know in about two weeks.

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

You see a max player here? He's not a 25 million dollar player in no shape or form. He's a good player but for half of that price. Nothing that's he's doing here is all that special.

I'm not sure what math you're getting $25M a year from. It's 4yr $92M max. First year of that deal would be ~$21M and about 20% of the cap. Five years ago when the cap was $55M that's the same as an $11M deal. New math for a new cap.

I'm about building a TEAM of COMPLIMENTARY parts. Conley would be a perfect complement to Melo and KP and even Rolo.

I'm all about building the team. We have Rolo, Melo under contract for 3yrs. Getting Conley for 4yrs would sync up nicely.

You need to watch a full Conley game to see the impact he has on offense, defense, etc. He would be a MASSIVE upgrade.

I'm about team building too.... a complimentary you just don't spend 21 million on a compliment.

you got that twisted... Conley would be core player. He's an excellent piece... complimentary only in that his skill set immediately makes the most important players on the Knicks BETTER. KP, Melo, Grant and Rolo all become better players. Thus he compliments them.

4 years $92 is overpaying, but not by a ton, and to me its a calculated overpay. Your not just throwing money at talent and hoping for the best (as we did with Amare and in recent years). Conley really is the attainable player that moves the needle the most. My only concern would be that achilles and his health, but if he checks out I would not hesitate. This would be money well spent.

He's also a good defensive player.

Everything for me right now is in the context of the future. I am ok with short term solutions and stop gaps so long as they are future looking. Conley improves us short term and long. I think NY would love him and he would be a fav Knick. Health scares me a bit but have to trust it was just bad timing

Even if it is an overpay this year, the market will re-caliberate itself next. For all we know Conley will be a value contract in 2 years time, which is possible when you consider that the cap is projected to jump again to $108 million. And when you consider that we have Jerian Grant behind him, concerns about Conley's achilles can be cast aside.

I think Grant is the starter next to him. Grant has the size to guard 2s and played off the ball a ton at ND.
Not only that but I love the idea of a 2nd unit featuring Wroten and DWill... a couple of slashers and yes are you ready? Jose off the bench to spread the floor for those guys. That looks like an immediate upgrade not only in talent but in the roles you are asking them to play. Just thinking out loud here but the point is Conley allows you to do so much.

I could get behind your plan. Hornancek does favor two guard fronts, which a Conley-Grant combo would provide. Personally, I'd like the idea of bringing in Courtney Lee to be my starter at the 2-guard spot and prefer to bring Grant off the bench to play both spots like a Vinny Johnson. Lee spreads the floor better, which I'd put a higher value on since we'd be starting two big men in KP-Lopez.

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

You see a max player here? He's not a 25 million dollar player in no shape or form. He's a good player but for half of that price. Nothing that's he's doing here is all that special.

I'm not sure what math you're getting $25M a year from. It's 4yr $92M max. First year of that deal would be ~$21M and about 20% of the cap. Five years ago when the cap was $55M that's the same as an $11M deal. New math for a new cap.

I'm about building a TEAM of COMPLIMENTARY parts. Conley would be a perfect complement to Melo and KP and even Rolo.

I'm all about building the team. We have Rolo, Melo under contract for 3yrs. Getting Conley for 4yrs would sync up nicely.

You need to watch a full Conley game to see the impact he has on offense, defense, etc. He would be a MASSIVE upgrade.

I'm about team building too.... a complimentary you just don't spend 21 million on a compliment.

you got that twisted... Conley would be core player. He's an excellent piece... complimentary only in that his skill set immediately makes the most important players on the Knicks BETTER. KP, Melo, Grant and Rolo all become better players. Thus he compliments them.

4 years $92 is overpaying, but not by a ton, and to me its a calculated overpay. Your not just throwing money at talent and hoping for the best (as we did with Amare and in recent years). Conley really is the attainable player that moves the needle the most. My only concern would be that achilles and his health, but if he checks out I would not hesitate. This would be money well spent.

He's also a good defensive player.

Everything for me right now is in the context of the future. I am ok with short term solutions and stop gaps so long as they are future looking. Conley improves us short term and long. I think NY would love him and he would be a fav Knick. Health scares me a bit but have to trust it was just bad timing

Even if it is an overpay this year, the market will re-caliberate itself next. For all we know Conley will be a value contract in 2 years time, which is possible when you consider that the cap is projected to jump again to $108 million. And when you consider that we have Jerian Grant behind him, concerns about Conley's achilles can be cast aside.

I think Grant is the starter next to him. Grant has the size to guard 2s and played off the ball a ton at ND.
Not only that but I love the idea of a 2nd unit featuring Wroten and DWill... a couple of slashers and yes are you ready? Jose off the bench to spread the floor for those guys. That looks like an immediate upgrade not only in talent but in the roles you are asking them to play. Just thinking out loud here but the point is Conley allows you to do so much.

I could get behind your plan. Hornancek does favor two guard fronts, which a Conley-Grant combo would provide. Personally, I'd like the idea of bringing in Courtney Lee to be my starter at the 2-guard spot and prefer to bring Grant off the bench to play both spots like a Vinny Johnson.

I think Courtney Lee would be a good compliment too... I guess I would favor some athleticism but hey I can always get behind defense

SupremeCommander wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

You see a max player here? He's not a 25 million dollar player in no shape or form. He's a good player but for half of that price. Nothing that's he's doing here is all that special.

I'm not sure what math you're getting $25M a year from. It's 4yr $92M max. First year of that deal would be ~$21M and about 20% of the cap. Five years ago when the cap was $55M that's the same as an $11M deal. New math for a new cap.

I'm about building a TEAM of COMPLIMENTARY parts. Conley would be a perfect complement to Melo and KP and even Rolo.

I'm all about building the team. We have Rolo, Melo under contract for 3yrs. Getting Conley for 4yrs would sync up nicely.

You need to watch a full Conley game to see the impact he has on offense, defense, etc. He would be a MASSIVE upgrade.

I'm about team building too.... a complimentary you just don't spend 21 million on a compliment.

you got that twisted... Conley would be core player. He's an excellent piece... complimentary only in that his skill set immediately makes the most important players on the Knicks BETTER. KP, Melo, Grant and Rolo all become better players. Thus he compliments them.

4 years $92 is overpaying, but not by a ton, and to me its a calculated overpay. Your not just throwing money at talent and hoping for the best (as we did with Amare and in recent years). Conley really is the attainable player that moves the needle the most. My only concern would be that achilles and his health, but if he checks out I would not hesitate. This would be money well spent.

He's also a good defensive player.

Everything for me right now is in the context of the future. I am ok with short term solutions and stop gaps so long as they are future looking. Conley improves us short term and long. I think NY would love him and he would be a fav Knick. Health scares me a bit but have to trust it was just bad timing

Even if it is an overpay this year, the market will re-caliberate itself next. For all we know Conley will be a value contract in 2 years time, which is possible when you consider that the cap is projected to jump again to $108 million. And when you consider that we have Jerian Grant behind him, concerns about Conley's achilles can be cast aside.

I think Grant is the starter next to him. Grant has the size to guard 2s and played off the ball a ton at ND.
Not only that but I love the idea of a 2nd unit featuring Wroten and DWill... a couple of slashers and yes are you ready? Jose off the bench to spread the floor for those guys. That looks like an immediate upgrade not only in talent but in the roles you are asking them to play. Just thinking out loud here but the point is Conley allows you to do so much.

I could get behind your plan. Hornancek does favor two guard fronts, which a Conley-Grant combo would provide. Personally, I'd like the idea of bringing in Courtney Lee to be my starter at the 2-guard spot and prefer to bring Grant off the bench to play both spots like a Vinny Johnson.

I think Courtney Lee would be a good compliment too... I guess I would favor some athleticism but hey I can always get behind defense

Don't forget about the 3 ball factor. We'd need it with Lopez on the floor. In this league, you'd need 4 guys in your starting lineup capable of hitting the 3 consistently to be a real contender.

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:he's the perfect player for the team. If you are going to overpay someone I'd rather it be him than DeRozan (or someone like Beal.... eww) simply because of the position involved. He plays both ends and is high IQ. Also, I remember TFK beating his chest over how terrible Conley was and how he knows basketball and Conley is trash blah blah blah. From a forum enjoyment level that is certainly an additional benefit of a Conley signing.

I think Gerald Green would be an excellent compliment to what the other starters would bring. I like that suggestion.

If we move Calderon and O'Quinn, we could theroetically be able to bring in both Courtney Lee (starter) and Gerald Green (off the bench). I'd like that dynamic at the 2-guard spot.

I say keep KOQ. His deal is so cap friendly, he's involved in team stuff (good guy) and I don't think he was utilized well at all last year. He's not a 4, he's a small 5. Too often he played the 4 and he cant guard those guys. Leave him at 5 and its more suited to his strengths... and he's a good shot blocker there also.

Yea.. KOQ is a back of the rotation guy but he's young, has some skills, plays hard and has the most cap friendly deal ever. 2 years $8mm? That's a nice depth player to have. His jumper is much better than he showed w/ the Knicks last year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a KOQ fan but I also think Willie Hernangomez should be a rotation player. The problem, however, is that both he and KOQ are redundant, which makes me inclined to re-invest O'Quinn's salary elsewhere.

And should Willie not be able to perform, I like the idea of a 3 man rotation at the PF-C spots with KP/Lopez/D-Will