Vmart wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think Rondo and Evan Turner are big candidates. I hope Brandon Jennings gets a look, too. I wonder if they think they can make a play for Conley? I'd still love Conley and I'd even be okay with overpaying him.

But, yes, glad to hear Mills acknowledge this. It does sort of conflict with what Phil Jackson has said - his comments that we wouldn't get caught up in overpaying for a lead guard and maybe we'd go underground to get one. I think Phil thinks Wroten can be that guy, not sure Mills agrees. Also, Hornacek has never mentioned Wroten in any of his comments on the team's roster, particularly when talking about guards.

Wondering if Mills and JH will push to spend on a point guard. I sort of hope they do.

That would be one of the worst three point shooting backcourts in the league.

KP and Melo are both great shooters though. I agree we'd need more shooting though. Maybe try to bring in Courtney Lee as well.

Crunch time lineup:

Wroten/Grant
Turner
CLee
Melo
KP

That lineup can shoot for the most part.

crzymdups wrote:I'd rank the *REALISTIC* order of who I think they can get like this:

1) Turner. He's a SG, but ready for a starting role and the kind of Triangle big lead guard Phil would covet. I could see him starting next to Wroten in a long rangy backcourt where both guys initiate offense. Neither is a great shooter, but KP and Melo can spread the floor pretty well for them.

2) Rondo. He's got that chess player mind set, so you'd think read and react ball might appeal to him. Add in JH who wants to push the ball whenever possible and Rondo might be more interested in coming here. He's always loved the stage and what better stage than MSG? He supposedly has always wanted to play with Melo too. Sacramento is a mess and I don't see him re-signing there.

3) Brandon Jennings. Kid has shown flashes. Always wanted to be a Knick. He's 26 and been through some injuries but seemed to be putting it together when healthy in Detroit. He's ready to make the leap if he's healthy. He's a lefty like Dragic and JH could sell him on his PG-centric offense.

4) Bayless. The best shooter of the realistic bunch. But not a great playmaker. Still, you put him next to Grant or Wroten and he could be good. I'd even be on board signing Bayless and Turner.

5) Courtney Lee. I just like this cat. Big defensive SG, can shoot the 3pt at a good clip. Playoff tested. I'd love to add Rondo AND Lee or Turner AND Lee. He'd be a perfect second guard signing after we get a lead guard.

Guys I don't think are realistic:

1) Conley - staying in Memphis with his BFF Gasol and getting PAID.

2) Batum - staying in Charlotte where he found a role and getting PAID.

3) Clarkson, Fournier, Crabbe, Tyler Johnson - the RFA crew. Not leaving because of how the rules work.

4) Lin. Dolan and Melo have not forgotten.

5) DeRozan. So unrealistic I always forget he's technically UFA. I think he gets PAID in Tdot.

Updated to add CLee and DeRozan to each list.

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:When I hear lead guard, I can only think of one guy and that's Rondo. The rest of the free agents don't possess that quality. Rondo is bat **** crazy especially when he crosses that line to insanity.... the dude is a lead guard though. If he feels and our staff feels they can work together... than this is our guy. If not, I'd rather stay put with what we have.

I agree about Rondo. We all know what there isn't to like about him, but his high bball iq and ability to create, plus his availability and connection with Melo, he seems like the most likely target. I wish he was younger, a better shooter, and not a head-case, but those are all of the reasons he is available. We need to make sure we have a good outside shooting guard next to him, but this seems like the most likely scenario to me.

Head case + NY media = Disater

I don't want drama to out weigh team goals. As much a talent Rondo is the media will have a field day with him.

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:When I hear lead guard, I can only think of one guy and that's Rondo. The rest of the free agents don't possess that quality. Rondo is bat **** crazy especially when he crosses that line to insanity.... the dude is a lead guard though. If he feels and our staff feels they can work together... than this is our guy. If not, I'd rather stay put with what we have.

I agree about Rondo. We all know what there isn't to like about him, but his high bball iq and ability to create, plus his availability and connection with Melo, he seems like the most likely target. I wish he was younger, a better shooter, and not a head-case, but those are all of the reasons he is available. We need to make sure we have a good outside shooting guard next to him, but this seems like the most likely scenario to me.

Head case + NY media = Disater

I don't want drama to out weigh team goals. As much a talent Rondo is the media will have a field day with him.

Chandler wrote:

EnySpree wrote:When I hear lead guard, I can only think of one guy and that's Rondo. The rest of the free agents don't possess that quality. Rondo is bat **** crazy especially when he crosses that line to insanity.... the dude is a lead guard though. If he feels and our staff feels they can work together... than this is our guy. If not, I'd rather stay put with what we have.

Good point. I don't see it happening because he's not a shooter, but he would fill the bill as lead, and be Phil's latest Rodman, Artest, or whoever else I'm forgetting

I don't know if Phil would want to get a "troubled" personality on the team just because of all the issues Hornecek had on the Sun's managing the Morris Bros and to a degree the glut of starting PG's on that Sun's roster.

Hornecek comes off like a decent guy, but sometimes players take kindness for weakness and its a distraction I don't think the knicks need at this point in their rebuild.

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:When I hear lead guard, I can only think of one guy and that's Rondo. The rest of the free agents don't possess that quality. Rondo is bat **** crazy especially when he crosses that line to insanity.... the dude is a lead guard though. If he feels and our staff feels they can work together... than this is our guy. If not, I'd rather stay put with what we have.

I agree about Rondo. We all know what there isn't to like about him, but his high bball iq and ability to create, plus his availability and connection with Melo, he seems like the most likely target. I wish he was younger, a better shooter, and not a head-case, but those are all of the reasons he is available. We need to make sure we have a good outside shooting guard next to him, but this seems like the most likely scenario to me.

Head case + NY media = Disater

I don't want drama to out weigh team goals. As much a talent Rondo is the media will have a field day with him.

Couldn't agree more. No to Rondo for me. Look at the issues he had with Carlisle in Dallas. I feel like that could easily happen to Hornacek too. No way I'm dealing with that..

Finestrg wrote:

Chandler wrote:

EnySpree wrote:When I hear lead guard, I can only think of one guy and that's Rondo. The rest of the free agents don't possess that quality. Rondo is bat **** crazy especially when he crosses that line to insanity.... the dude is a lead guard though. If he feels and our staff feels they can work together... than this is our guy. If not, I'd rather stay put with what we have.

Good point. I don't see it happening because he's not a shooter, but he would fill the bill as lead, and be Phil's latest Rodman, Artest, or whoever else I'm forgetting

Maybe we just look to fill the spot with someone competent without overspending (this is a HUGE deal to me now -- if something doesn't work, I don't ever want to be in the position of digging out of a hole we created for years ever again) and try to shoot for Gary Payton Jr. to be our own Rondo for years to come. GP2 may be an even better player than Rondo eventually.

I think a lot of guys will take 1 and 1 deals a la Lebron to cash in next summer when the cap hits $108M. I could see Rondo doing that, which wouldn't be a bad signing for the Knicks.

dk7th wrote:does "lead guard" mean only a point guard? the article mentions afflalo and his possible opt out. shouldn't "lead guard" mean either backcourt position for this team?

To me, it's the guy that drives the bus. Doesn't have to be a pure PG necessarily--it could be a combo or more of a scoring guard, whatever (Steph Curry's arguably the best guard in the league and he's no pure point), but a guy that possesses all the requisite skills to run the show -- good enough handle, some speed, breakdown ability, good enough passer. If a guy has that and there are other attractive factors in addition (like in Jerryd Bayless' case, he'd come cheaper than others, he's a knockdown shooter, he has the ability to go out and get his own shot whenever he wants and I think the ability to average 15 ppg/5 apg if leaned on for that amount of production) -- that all factors into a good lead guard candidate imo.

Take a good look at Jordan Clarkson for a sec. -- I like him a lot. He's no pure PG, tough, but I'd classify him as a lead guard. What's the big differences between Clarkson and Jerryd Bayless? One guy's a little younger, OK, but the big difference is Clarkson's gonna get paid a premium whereas Bayless, essentially the same player in my eyes, will go for a fraction of the cost. And when it's all said and done both guys might wind up at the same production level. See that's my thing here -- why pay a premium for Clarkson or Conley Jr. or why trade away our starting center for a Jeff Teague for a production level we could have a good chance of getting out of a Jerryd Bayless for so much less?? Bayless, to me, would be ideal for now -- but I'd also like to invest in another younger understudy to go with Bayless (zeroing in on the handful of quality PG options that should be available in the late 1st round/2nd round/undrafted pool of talent in this upcoming draft) which would give JH options along with providing insurance in case Grant/Wroten didn't pan out, Bayless came aboard but didn't play like I think he's capable of playing, etc.. This would be my plan going into this offseason -- be judicious with the money for once (we don't have to blow it all just because we have the cap room, and we should certainly be mindful by now of not blowing it all on the wrong players--can't stress this enough) but at the same time, looking to add to the talent base for now and the future.

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

Chandler wrote:

EnySpree wrote:When I hear lead guard, I can only think of one guy and that's Rondo. The rest of the free agents don't possess that quality. Rondo is bat **** crazy especially when he crosses that line to insanity.... the dude is a lead guard though. If he feels and our staff feels they can work together... than this is our guy. If not, I'd rather stay put with what we have.

Good point. I don't see it happening because he's not a shooter, but he would fill the bill as lead, and be Phil's latest Rodman, Artest, or whoever else I'm forgetting

Maybe we just look to fill the spot with someone competent without overspending (this is a HUGE deal to me now -- if something doesn't work, I don't ever want to be in the position of digging out of a hole we created for years ever again) and try to shoot for Gary Payton Jr. to be our own Rondo for years to come. GP2 may be an even better player than Rondo eventually.

I think a lot of guys will take 1 and 1 deals a la Lebron to cash in next summer when the cap hits $108M. I could see Rondo doing that, which wouldn't be a bad signing for the Knicks.

That's a good point. Or it could go the other way too bro -- what if there's a lockout in the near future and the money comes back down to Earth? Or what if Rondo, already on the other side of 30, is really looking for that one last lucrative payday (I mean what if he gets hurt on a 1-yr deal?). I hear what you're saying but there's a lot of risk there for a player in his situation. If I'm Rondo's agent, I'd be exploring long-term contracts for him first. I gotta believe that's what he'll be looking for to start this offseason. And with all the cap room suddenly flying around out there league-wide, I think there will be teams out there that will offer him that. I just hope it's not us.

Finestrg wrote:

fishmike wrote:really hard to see Rondo and JH being simpatico

Agreed. I don't see it at all. That together with the inflated price tag & his limitations makes him a no go for me.

I'd love Rondo - but, I think we have so many holes here, esp. outside shooting, that you can't bring him in with the weaknesses he does have.

crzymdups wrote:

wargames wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think Rondo and Evan Turner are big candidates. I hope Brandon Jennings gets a look, too. I wonder if they think they can make a play for Conley? I'd still love Conley and I'd even be okay with overpaying him.

But, yes, glad to hear Mills acknowledge this. It does sort of conflict with what Phil Jackson has said - his comments that we wouldn't get caught up in overpaying for a lead guard and maybe we'd go underground to get one. I think Phil thinks Wroten can be that guy, not sure Mills agrees. Also, Hornacek has never mentioned Wroten in any of his comments on the team's roster, particularly when talking about guards.

Wondering if Mills and JH will push to spend on a point guard. I sort of hope they do.

I think JH is already pushing and now Mills is making it known.

I was thinking it was kinda funny how every time JH talked guards he never brought up Wroten's name either, i've never not once have heard him say anything about Wroten and i've never heard him say anything about R.Lopez either. You would think he'd at least mention both of them in some way but nothing.

He's mentioned RoLo a few times when talking about the knicks Front Court strength..... He hasn't mentioned Wroten once.

I think it's fair not to hand Wroten anything. We don't know what he will look like. He can make his case in summer league and training camp. Give him incentive to work his butt off this summer. Hopefully that includes shooting 1000 jumpers a day with Jerian Grant.

Even if Wroten can start for us, we still need a lead guard to play next to him.

I just see Evan Turner making sense next to him.

But I can see Rondo being a big option.

I love that we have a PG-friendly coach who played guard at the highest levels. I think that'll be a big selling point to guards.

If it's Turner playing next to Wroten then we have no 3 point shooting from that back court at all, at least Rondo shot like 38 percent from 3 last year.