he has a versatile skill set...just nothing JUMPS out athletically. I DONT understand this love affair with valentine (pun intended)

BRIGGS wrote:Valentine is also a tremendous shooter on top of that, making the second highest volume of 3-pointers among DX Top-100 prospects (behind only Buddy Hield), but doing so at an incredible 45% clip. Only five players in college basketball made over 100 3s this year and did so while shooting so accurately, while none did so last season.

What's even more impressive about Valentine's shooting, beyond the numbers, is the way he knocks down his jumpers, some of which come off the most complicated looks you can imagine. Valentine is frequently utilized as a floor-spacer, but is also very capable both running off screens and shooting pull-up jumpers. He does a great job of getting his feet underneath him and releasing the ball quickly, and has the ability to attack closeouts with straight-line drives and floaters when defenses play up on his shot too aggressively. Valentine is not afraid to take big shots and has had some very memorable moments in his college career hitting timely jumpers with a hand in his face and the clock running down.

Valentine's size, length and instincts also translates to his work on the glass, as his 8.5 defensive rebounds per-40 minutes was the top rate among any guard or wing prospect in our Top-100 prospect rankings, higher than many power forwards or centers in fact.

Valentine is the only player in our extensive college basketball historical database (dating back around 30 years) to average over 19 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists per game. The only ones to come close are Penny Hardaway (23, 8+6 as a sophomore at Memphis in 1993), Evan Turner (20, 9+6 as a junior at Ohio State in 2008) and Michael Anderson (24, 6+7 as a senior at Drexel in 1988).

He's a senior. Their stats are always inflated against less mature competition.

No arguing he can be a good player - why wouldn't the Knicks just sign Evan Turner who is a more seasoned version of the same type of player?

BRIGGS wrote:Valentine is also a tremendous shooter on top of that, making the second highest volume of 3-pointers among DX Top-100 prospects (behind only Buddy Hield), but doing so at an incredible 45% clip. Only five players in college basketball made over 100 3s this year and did so while shooting so accurately, while none did so last season.

What's even more impressive about Valentine's shooting, beyond the numbers, is the way he knocks down his jumpers, some of which come off the most complicated looks you can imagine. Valentine is frequently utilized as a floor-spacer, but is also very capable both running off screens and shooting pull-up jumpers. He does a great job of getting his feet underneath him and releasing the ball quickly, and has the ability to attack closeouts with straight-line drives and floaters when defenses play up on his shot too aggressively. Valentine is not afraid to take big shots and has had some very memorable moments in his college career hitting timely jumpers with a hand in his face and the clock running down.

Valentine's size, length and instincts also translates to his work on the glass, as his 8.5 defensive rebounds per-40 minutes was the top rate among any guard or wing prospect in our Top-100 prospect rankings, higher than many power forwards or centers in fact.

Valentine is the only player in our extensive college basketball historical database (dating back around 30 years) to average over 19 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists per game. The only ones to come close are Penny Hardaway (23, 8+6 as a sophomore at Memphis in 1993), Evan Turner (20, 9+6 as a junior at Ohio State in 2008) and Michael Anderson (24, 6+7 as a senior at Drexel in 1988).

Link for those wondering:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Denzel-Valentine-58739/

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Valentine is also a tremendous shooter on top of that, making the second highest volume of 3-pointers among DX Top-100 prospects (behind only Buddy Hield), but doing so at an incredible 45% clip. Only five players in college basketball made over 100 3s this year and did so while shooting so accurately, while none did so last season.

What's even more impressive about Valentine's shooting, beyond the numbers, is the way he knocks down his jumpers, some of which come off the most complicated looks you can imagine. Valentine is frequently utilized as a floor-spacer, but is also very capable both running off screens and shooting pull-up jumpers. He does a great job of getting his feet underneath him and releasing the ball quickly, and has the ability to attack closeouts with straight-line drives and floaters when defenses play up on his shot too aggressively. Valentine is not afraid to take big shots and has had some very memorable moments in his college career hitting timely jumpers with a hand in his face and the clock running down.

Valentine's size, length and instincts also translates to his work on the glass, as his 8.5 defensive rebounds per-40 minutes was the top rate among any guard or wing prospect in our Top-100 prospect rankings, higher than many power forwards or centers in fact.

Valentine is the only player in our extensive college basketball historical database (dating back around 30 years) to average over 19 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists per game. The only ones to come close are Penny Hardaway (23, 8+6 as a sophomore at Memphis in 1993), Evan Turner (20, 9+6 as a junior at Ohio State in 2008) and Michael Anderson (24, 6+7 as a senior at Drexel in 1988).

He's a senior. Their stats are always inflated against less mature competition.

No arguing he can be a good player - why wouldn't the Knicks just sign Evan Turner who is a more seasoned version of the same type of player?

Well DEnzel is a high volume 45% 3 point shooter and turner who is 5 years older is not even in the same wavelength. Anyone just watch GS? This is a GS type of basketball player. Great vision great shooter great feel for the game diverse leader yeah hes not winning a dunk contest either is klay thompson or curry.

While Valentine doesn't look scared to mix things up on the glass, he's an extremely poor defender that needed to be hidden constantly at the college level in order to not emerge as a liability. While somewhat of a combo guard offensively, he's best suited guarding small forwards who don't have much in the way of ball-handling ability or explosiveness on the other end. His lateral quickness is very poor, he doesn't cover ground well, and his effort really comes and goes, as he often looks fairly lazy closing out on shooters or trying to keep his man in front. Valentine relies heavily on reaching and grabbing his man to try and slow him down, which simply will not work at the NBA level.

Another concern is his lack of burst offensively, as he often has a tough time turning the corner against better defenders in the half-court. His size, strength and ability to change speeds works to his advantage at the college level, but there are concerns about whether he'll be able to do the same against NBA-level defenders, where everyone is much bigger, longer, stronger and more athletic.

BRIGGS wrote:Best move we can make. Thats the type of player we need. Leader passer rebounder ballhandler 3 point marksman can play PG at 6-5 220.

That was my thought process 5 months ago and still today best move we can make.

Valentine Barber Forbes

Ill even do this

2017 pick restricted to 5 + 3mm for picks 16 and 31.

The thread title says we should trade our 2019 1st round pick and your original post says we should trade our 2017 1st round pick so which is it??

Our 2019 1st round pick will be lower than #16 and we can't trade our 2017 1st rounder so neither option would work.

smackeddog wrote:You missed this bit :

While Valentine doesn't look scared to mix things up on the glass, he's an extremely poor defender that needed to be hidden constantly at the college level in order to not emerge as a liability. While somewhat of a combo guard offensively, he's best suited guarding small forwards who don't have much in the way of ball-handling ability or explosiveness on the other end. His lateral quickness is very poor, he doesn't cover ground well, and his effort really comes and goes, as he often looks fairly lazy closing out on shooters or trying to keep his man in front. Valentine relies heavily on reaching and grabbing his man to try and slow him down, which simply will not work at the NBA level.

Another concern is his lack of burst offensively, as he often has a tough time turning the corner against better defenders in the half-court. His size, strength and ability to change speeds works to his advantage at the college level, but there are concerns about whether he'll be able to do the same against NBA-level defenders, where everyone is much bigger, longer, stronger and more athletic.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/aj-hammons-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/anthony-cat-barber-1.html

Just to go through a little numbers

A Bryn Forbes had the highest ts% and efg in the nation for a guard as in #1.

B Denzel Valentine only guard projected in the top 30 to have a 30 PER and an efg of 58%

C A J Hammons--first player in the history of the big ten to avg 20-11-4 per 40 minutes over FOUR years

yellowboy90 wrote:Valentine reminds me of a more well rounded guard version of Jared Dudley.

Hes a PG so while he can hit the three at a high rate hes also a top 3 passer coming into the draft. I mean you are talking 20-8-8 for a team that was 26-4 and out of those 4 lost 3 of them by 1 pt each.

I think this is what we need

A. A playmaking PG who can actually shoot the 3 ball

B. A big 2G

c. A shot blocking center who can also score

d. A specialty 3 point shooter (ie Patty Mills etc.)

e. A speed guard--while we have Wroten and Grant--I do not qualify them as guys with speed+ dribble combined with a shot.

smackeddog wrote:You missed this bit :

While Valentine doesn't look scared to mix things up on the glass, he's an extremely poor defender that needed to be hidden constantly at the college level in order to not emerge as a liability. While somewhat of a combo guard offensively, he's best suited guarding small forwards who don't have much in the way of ball-handling ability or explosiveness on the other end. His lateral quickness is very poor, he doesn't cover ground well, and his effort really comes and goes, as he often looks fairly lazy closing out on shooters or trying to keep his man in front. Valentine relies heavily on reaching and grabbing his man to try and slow him down, which simply will not work at the NBA level.

Another concern is his lack of burst offensively, as he often has a tough time turning the corner against better defenders in the half-court. His size, strength and ability to change speeds works to his advantage at the college level, but there are concerns about whether he'll be able to do the same against NBA-level defenders, where everyone is much bigger, longer, stronger and more athletic.

This shows a little of everything this guy has--and shows hes a good athlete as well. You had to watch this team to appreciate how good this guy was.