knicks1248 wrote:so reports are coming that Rambis is pretty upset he didn't get the head coaching gig

Rambis is said to be upset that he didn't get the head coaching job. He was Phil Jackson's preferred choice since February but the player, fan and media criticism of Rambis may have pressured Jackson into making a dramatic turn.

Hornacek is an offensive-minded coach while Rambis was hired by Jackson two years ago to coach the triangle with Derek Fisher. With Hornacek not required to run the triangle, he may look for a more defensive-minded lead assistant.

He's going to be really piss he wont even be part of the coaching staff.

I can't believe that phil would leave is homeie hanging, and not even give him a heads up

knicks1248 wrote:so reports are coming that Rambis is pretty upset he didn't get the head coaching gig

Rambis is said to be upset that he didn't get the head coaching job. He was Phil Jackson's preferred choice since February but the player, fan and media criticism of Rambis may have pressured Jackson into making a dramatic turn.

Hornacek is an offensive-minded coach while Rambis was hired by Jackson two years ago to coach the triangle with Derek Fisher. With Hornacek not required to run the triangle, he may look for a more defensive-minded lead assistant.

He's going to be really piss he wont even be part of the coaching staff.

I can't believe that phil would leave is homeie hanging, and not even give him a heads up

I'm still hoping that Hornacek is coming on to join the Triangle way of life --
not to replace it.

That means keeping Rambis and the rest of the Triangle staff.

If not . . . then too many things make no sense -- like the Triangle workshop (!)

I just can't see how Jackson can make a U-turn of that kind.

But then again, he hired Fisher. So there's reason to worry . . .

CrushAlot wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:so reports are coming that Rambis is pretty upset he didn't get the head coaching gig

Rambis is said to be upset that he didn't get the head coaching job. He was Phil Jackson's preferred choice since February but the player, fan and media criticism of Rambis may have pressured Jackson into making a dramatic turn.

Hornacek is an offensive-minded coach while Rambis was hired by Jackson two years ago to coach the triangle with Derek Fisher. With Hornacek not required to run the triangle, he may look for a more defensive-minded lead assistant.

He's going to be really piss he wont even be part of the coaching staff.

I can't believe that phil would leave is homeie hanging, and not even give him a heads up

Link please.

Found it. It is Isola.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/jeff-hornacek-knicks-progressing-deal-article-1.2648703

do you think fan pressure played a role in phils decision to not hire rambis?

knicks1248 wrote:do we ever know what phil is doing or thinking. He does a triangle seminar,
and now reports are coming out that J H doesn't have to run it..smh

But the Fisher fiasco was so bad that I think you can't just
assume that things will work out okay anymore.

The Knicks need MORE Triangle . . . not LESS.

I don't see how letting Rambis go gives us more Triangle . . .

mreinman wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:do we ever know what phil is doing or thinking. He does a triangle seminar,
and now reports are coming out that J H doesn't have to run it..smh

Normally I wouldn't care how he does things.

But the Fisher fiasco was so bad that I think you can't just
assume that things will work out okay anymore.

The Knicks need MORE Triangle . . . not LESS.

I don't see how letting Rambis go gives us more Triangle . . .

So you don't trust in phil now? Or do you only believe in him if he believes in running more triangle?

If phil believes we need less pure triangle and need to open it up more and modernize it and he believes that JH can do that, is that not good enough anymore? His mind and his opinion?

With regard to Rambis, he himself said that he didn't really expect that he'd end up getting the job. He's no spring chicken and he knows how this works.

While Rambis, who on Monday was named interim head coach for the rest of the season after Derek Fisher was fired, said he’s not holding out hope of becoming the head coach long-term, he does want to get the Knicks into the playoffs this spring.

“I’ve been around too long to have that hope,” Rambis said of being the coach beyond this season. “I’m gonna do the best job I can to finish out this year and get into the playoffs. That’s my goal, to get this team into the playoffs and then I’ll worry about things after we get as far as we can possibly get. But until that point, I’m not worried about it.”

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:so reports are coming that Rambis is pretty upset he didn't get the head coaching gig

Rambis is said to be upset that he didn't get the head coaching job. He was Phil Jackson's preferred choice since February but the player, fan and media criticism of Rambis may have pressured Jackson into making a dramatic turn.

Hornacek is an offensive-minded coach while Rambis was hired by Jackson two years ago to coach the triangle with Derek Fisher. With Hornacek not required to run the triangle, he may look for a more defensive-minded lead assistant.

He's going to be really piss he wont even be part of the coaching staff.

I can't believe that phil would leave is homeie hanging, and not even give him a heads up

Link please.

Found it. It is Isola.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/jeff-hornacek-knicks-progressing-deal-article-1.2648703

do you think fan pressure played a role in phils decision to not hire rambis?

Nope. This is Phil Jackson you are talking about. He has 11 rings, the fans have zero.
He would not compromise. I don't think there's any major sacrifice in not running the triangle.
I don't think he is he'll bent on running it, that's just media BS and fans who want to paint him as one dimensional person who puts himself ahead of the Knicks. Which is clearly not the case.

Malcolm wrote:

mreinman wrote:So you don't trust in phil now? Or do you only believe in him if he
believes in running more triangle?

If phil believes we need less pure triangle and need to open it up
more and modernize it and he believes that JH can do that, is that
not good enough anymore? His mind and his opinion?

As I've said . . . the Fisher disaster has undermined my confidence
in Jackson.

That was entirely his call and his responsibility. No escape from that.

So what kind of sense would it make to "trust" Phil AFTER it . . . in
the same way one trusted him BEFORE (?)

Instead, he has to show me that he's not going to make a similarly bad
decision again.

If Jackson has decided not to run the Triangle . . . I'm done with him.

wow! so you would have been happier and had much more confidence in him if he brought back rambis and stuck to the pure triangle, correct?

You are a true blue triangle fan!

mreinman wrote:

Malcolm wrote:If Jackson has decided not to run the Triangle . . . I'm done with him.

wow! so you would have been happier and had much more confidence in him if he
brought back rambis and stuck to the pure triangle, correct?

You are a true blue triangle fan!

On the other hand, if Hornacek turns out to be a born-again Triangle-ist . . .
then, of course, I'll be thrilled and will acknowledge that Jackson made a
brilliant move.

But we don't know right now . . . which it is.

The Fisher disaster makes doubt completely reasonable . . .

mreinman wrote:The fisher thing was on him and he did really blow it with that hire.
He should have known or interviewed fisher much better than he did.

Fisher is not a really high IQ guy ... phil should have known that.

Being a little skeptical of Jackson after that . . . is completely justified.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

mreinman wrote:So you don't trust in phil now? Or do you only believe in him if he
believes in running more triangle?

If phil believes we need less pure triangle and need to open it up
more and modernize it and he believes that JH can do that, is that
not good enough anymore? His mind and his opinion?

As I've said . . . the Fisher disaster has undermined my confidence
in Jackson.

That was entirely his call and his responsibility. No escape from that.

So what kind of sense would it make to "trust" Phil AFTER it . . . in
the same way one trusted him BEFORE (?)

Instead, he has to show me that he's not going to make a similarly bad
decision again.

If Jackson has decided not to run the Triangle . . . I'm done with him.

I still think you're putting too much emphasis on the Fisher thing. Phil originally wanted Kerr. What happened with Fish was as much on Fish as on Phil. Phil trusted Fish and thought he was on the same page but Fish had other ideas and wasn't as professional as he should've been. In the end Phil knows more about what happened than any of us. He ended it and now we have a guy with a bit more experience and a great mind. This actually should make you trust Phil MORE than before.

You think it's all about the Triangle when the Triangle is just a means to an end. People seem not to get that part of what Phil is all about. His principles on teamwork and sacrifice came before the Triangle. What he learned from Holzman about team was the blueprint but he used the Triangle to establish in a concrete way those intangible principles. He came to believe that the Triangle was a great way to instill his principles, but not the only way.

The fisher thing was on him and he did really blow it with that hire. He should have known or interviewed fisher much better than he did.

Fisher is not a really high IQ guy ... phil should have known that. It was a rookie mistake.

Where does that come from? Fish was not known as a stupid guy. He may not have been the X's and O's guy that some coaches are, but that wasn't the main reason for Phil hiring him. Phil has X's and O's guys there to help Fish. Phil hired Fish for relating to and inspiring the players. He felt Fish was a young leader who was known to be a leader in the locker room. It wasn't about how smart he was with a chalk board. He wanted a talented young leader of men. Someone that could relate to today's players as he was doing with the Thunder. There was LEGIT rationale behind what Phil was looking for from Fish.

Today you need really smart head coaches and Fisher to me was a low IQ player and a low IQ coach. Phil miscalculated big time on that ... its ok to make mistakes especially being new to this. I think that he made a good choice now so hopefully it was a good learning experience.

I hope that he was never planning on hiring rambis because that would show more extreme silliness. I guess we will never know.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

mreinman wrote:So you don't trust in phil now? Or do you only believe in him if he
believes in running more triangle?

If phil believes we need less pure triangle and need to open it up
more and modernize it and he believes that JH can do that, is that
not good enough anymore? His mind and his opinion?

As I've said . . . the Fisher disaster has undermined my confidence
in Jackson.

That was entirely his call and his responsibility. No escape from that.

So what kind of sense would it make to "trust" Phil AFTER it . . . in
the same way one trusted him BEFORE (?)

Instead, he has to show me that he's not going to make a similarly bad
decision again.

If Jackson has decided not to run the Triangle . . . I'm done with him.

I still think you're putting too much emphasis on the Fisher thing. Phil originally wanted Kerr. What happened with Fish was as much on Fish as on Phil. Phil trusted Fish and thought he was on the same page but Fish had other ideas and wasn't as professional as he should've been. In the end Phil knows more about what happened than any of us. He ended it and now we have a guy with a bit more experience and a great mind. This actually should make you trust Phil MORE than before.

You think it's all about the Triangle when the Triangle is just a means to an end. People seem not to get that part of what Phil is all about. His principles on teamwork and sacrifice came before the Triangle. What he learned from Holzman about team was the blueprint but he used the Triangle to establish in a concrete way those intangible principles. He came to believe that the Triangle was a great way to instill his principles, but not the only way.

The fisher thing was on him and he did really blow it with that hire. He should have known or interviewed fisher much better than he did.

Fisher is not a really high IQ guy ... phil should have known that. It was a rookie mistake.

Where does that come from? Fish was not known as a stupid guy. He may not have been the X's and O's guy that some coaches are, but that wasn't the main reason for Phil hiring him. Phil has X's and O's guys there to help Fish. Phil hired Fish for relating to and inspiring the players. He felt Fish was a young leader who was known to be a leader in the locker room. It wasn't about how smart he was with a chalk board. He wanted a talented young leader of men. Someone that could relate to today's players as he was doing with the Thunder. There was LEGIT rationale behind what Phil was looking for from Fish.

Today you need really smart head coaches and Fisher to me was a low IQ player and a low IQ coach. Phil miscalculated big time on that ... its ok to make mistakes especially being new to this. I think that he made a good choice now so hopefully it was a good learning experience.

I hope that he was never planning on hiring rambis because that would show more extreme silliness. I guess we will never know.

There are head coaches that have an Offensive guru assistant. Even Kerr had Gentry by his side. If you think Phil just left Fish with no help that's way off base. If Phil has trust in Rambis as an Offensive assistant he clearly felt his BBIQ was high.

Just because JH may have an especially high IQ or keen offensive mind doesn't mean Phil felt he had idiots running his team. Having a great offensive mind is no guarantee of success. There's more to the hire of JH than his ability with X's n O's.

Dumb as Fish was supposed to be he was the one looking for more uptempo and PnR. I think that his firing was about how he handled his job. Dealing with his staff and Phil in particular. Fish showing poor judgment on top of that. Bashing Phil is missing the point. How many good coaches were also fired? Thibs, JH, Blatt, Vogel, Joerger... All stupid guys I guess.

Not all stupid guys and I did not say everyone who gets fired is stupid, I said that phil made a rookie mistake and that happens. Its not a bash, its a fact. Everyone needs to make mistakes and learn.