nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

wargames wrote:http://nypost.com/2016/05/22/bulls-t-critics-havent-killed-knicks-triangle-phil-jackson-pal/

Rosen says the triangle isn't completely scrapped

“It’s hard to imagine Phil caving in and abandoning a system that is entirely flexible and he’s had so much success in the past,” Rosen told The Post. “That’s absurd. It takes many forms. You can change it from the low post to the high post. You can do anything. People talk about it being mechanical and robotic. It’s not the case. Maybe it’s the case with guys who never played it before because they have to think instead of react.

Hornacek’s hiring was a stunner because he never worked or played for Jackson or ran the triangle. Rosen, however, said the media missed the boat by not pointing out Hornacek defended against Jackson’s triangle for 10 years. Plus, he worked against it in two Finals series when the Bulls faced the Jazz in the late 1990s.

“When you’re in the Finals, you’re doing heavy-duty scouting before,” Rosen said. “Your B team will run the triangle in practice. It’s not the same as coaching it or playing it, but he has a certain degree of familiarity.”

I have a feeling we'll see a combination of what Horn did with the suns with triangle offense plays mixed in. He didn't have what would be a called a system in Phoenix (similar to how better coaches these days like Kerr, Stotts, Pops, etc don't have systems) but used a combination of plays that emphasized his rosters strength. A lot of those plays could be useful for the knicks, but obviously with the way the lineup is made (and the lack of PG's with 3 pt shots) I could see him being willing to change things around.

Spurs have a system. Once you establish your style of play and build on it long enough it can become a system. That's how it works. Spurs have been developing what they do and tweaking it over the entire time Pop has been coach. The Triangle evolved into a system over time as well but it's just MUCH older.

Rosen seems unaware of the fact that Horn actually played 4 years in the triangle under Cotton Fitzsimmons. He does know and understand the Triangle enough to coach it and I suspect he'll blend in some Triangle. He could use the Triangle as the base offense and simply tweak it with his own principles. I've been saying for over a year that the Triangle as a system is highly flexible. It's up to the coach to decide what they will focus on and how they will run the system.

Pops system is really based on his current personnel. I am sure that Hornacek is smart enough to do the same thing. Play to our strengths.

Pop TWEAKS what they do based on personnel but they've had concepts that have remained in place for many years. Phil did the same exact thing but people constantly keep talking like he's never changed the Triangle, when in fact he has changed things up based on his personnel.

Another thing is that in NY we've NEVER run the full Triangle all the time. Not even under Rambis did the team really go deep into the Triangle or stay in it all the time.

Horn is going to have to also adjust to this roster which isn't the same as what he had in PHX. That's only natural to expect. Still it should be very interesting to see what he comes up with and how the team will look next year. Now he'll have some influence on what Phil does cuz they will have talked about how Horn plans to do things and what he'll need to accomplish his goals. Phil is aware of how important it is for the GM/Prez to support the coach.

I don't care what we ran before, I just know that it was FUGLY! I am happy that JH is here and we not how a really smart guy as a coach. Not like the other 2 tools that phil hired/promoted.

If JH really has autonomy that I have full faith in him that he will run a smart modern offense that maximizes our efficiency and does not hide KP in the post. He will have no problem having KP shoot 10 3's a game if need be.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

wargames wrote:http://nypost.com/2016/05/22/bulls-t-critics-havent-killed-knicks-triangle-phil-jackson-pal/

Rosen says the triangle isn't completely scrapped

“It’s hard to imagine Phil caving in and abandoning a system that is entirely flexible and he’s had so much success in the past,” Rosen told The Post. “That’s absurd. It takes many forms. You can change it from the low post to the high post. You can do anything. People talk about it being mechanical and robotic. It’s not the case. Maybe it’s the case with guys who never played it before because they have to think instead of react.

Hornacek’s hiring was a stunner because he never worked or played for Jackson or ran the triangle. Rosen, however, said the media missed the boat by not pointing out Hornacek defended against Jackson’s triangle for 10 years. Plus, he worked against it in two Finals series when the Bulls faced the Jazz in the late 1990s.

“When you’re in the Finals, you’re doing heavy-duty scouting before,” Rosen said. “Your B team will run the triangle in practice. It’s not the same as coaching it or playing it, but he has a certain degree of familiarity.”

I have a feeling we'll see a combination of what Horn did with the suns with triangle offense plays mixed in. He didn't have what would be a called a system in Phoenix (similar to how better coaches these days like Kerr, Stotts, Pops, etc don't have systems) but used a combination of plays that emphasized his rosters strength. A lot of those plays could be useful for the knicks, but obviously with the way the lineup is made (and the lack of PG's with 3 pt shots) I could see him being willing to change things around.

Spurs have a system. Once you establish your style of play and build on it long enough it can become a system. That's how it works. Spurs have been developing what they do and tweaking it over the entire time Pop has been coach. The Triangle evolved into a system over time as well but it's just MUCH older.

Rosen seems unaware of the fact that Horn actually played 4 years in the triangle under Cotton Fitzsimmons. He does know and understand the Triangle enough to coach it and I suspect he'll blend in some Triangle. He could use the Triangle as the base offense and simply tweak it with his own principles. I've been saying for over a year that the Triangle as a system is highly flexible. It's up to the coach to decide what they will focus on and how they will run the system.

Pops system is really based on his current personnel. I am sure that Hornacek is smart enough to do the same thing. Play to our strengths.

Pop TWEAKS what they do based on personnel but they've had concepts that have remained in place for many years. Phil did the same exact thing but people constantly keep talking like he's never changed the Triangle, when in fact he has changed things up based on his personnel.

Another thing is that in NY we've NEVER run the full Triangle all the time. Not even under Rambis did the team really go deep into the Triangle or stay in it all the time.

Horn is going to have to also adjust to this roster which isn't the same as what he had in PHX. That's only natural to expect. Still it should be very interesting to see what he comes up with and how the team will look next year. Now he'll have some influence on what Phil does cuz they will have talked about how Horn plans to do things and what he'll need to accomplish his goals. Phil is aware of how important it is for the GM/Prez to support the coach.

I don't care what we ran before, I just know that it was FUGLY! I am happy that JH is here and we not how a really smart guy as a coach. Not like the other 2 tools that phil hired/promoted.

If JH really has autonomy that I have full faith in him that he will run a smart modern offense that maximizes our efficiency and does not hide KP in the post. He will have no problem having KP shoot 10 3's a game if need be.

Clearly Phil was impressed with Horn and I can imagine they must have really vibed, since that was very important to Phil that he not only trusted the man he hired from an X's and O's standpoint, but that he felt he was someone he could work with. So we can at least be happy that Phil got one of the best minds out there according to everyone that knows Horn.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

wargames wrote:http://nypost.com/2016/05/22/bulls-t-critics-havent-killed-knicks-triangle-phil-jackson-pal/

Rosen says the triangle isn't completely scrapped

“It’s hard to imagine Phil caving in and abandoning a system that is entirely flexible and he’s had so much success in the past,” Rosen told The Post. “That’s absurd. It takes many forms. You can change it from the low post to the high post. You can do anything. People talk about it being mechanical and robotic. It’s not the case. Maybe it’s the case with guys who never played it before because they have to think instead of react.

Hornacek’s hiring was a stunner because he never worked or played for Jackson or ran the triangle. Rosen, however, said the media missed the boat by not pointing out Hornacek defended against Jackson’s triangle for 10 years. Plus, he worked against it in two Finals series when the Bulls faced the Jazz in the late 1990s.

“When you’re in the Finals, you’re doing heavy-duty scouting before,” Rosen said. “Your B team will run the triangle in practice. It’s not the same as coaching it or playing it, but he has a certain degree of familiarity.”

I have a feeling we'll see a combination of what Horn did with the suns with triangle offense plays mixed in. He didn't have what would be a called a system in Phoenix (similar to how better coaches these days like Kerr, Stotts, Pops, etc don't have systems) but used a combination of plays that emphasized his rosters strength. A lot of those plays could be useful for the knicks, but obviously with the way the lineup is made (and the lack of PG's with 3 pt shots) I could see him being willing to change things around.

Spurs have a system. Once you establish your style of play and build on it long enough it can become a system. That's how it works. Spurs have been developing what they do and tweaking it over the entire time Pop has been coach. The Triangle evolved into a system over time as well but it's just MUCH older.

Rosen seems unaware of the fact that Horn actually played 4 years in the triangle under Cotton Fitzsimmons. He does know and understand the Triangle enough to coach it and I suspect he'll blend in some Triangle. He could use the Triangle as the base offense and simply tweak it with his own principles. I've been saying for over a year that the Triangle as a system is highly flexible. It's up to the coach to decide what they will focus on and how they will run the system.

Pops system is really based on his current personnel. I am sure that Hornacek is smart enough to do the same thing. Play to our strengths.

Pop TWEAKS what they do based on personnel but they've had concepts that have remained in place for many years. Phil did the same exact thing but people constantly keep talking like he's never changed the Triangle, when in fact he has changed things up based on his personnel.

Another thing is that in NY we've NEVER run the full Triangle all the time. Not even under Rambis did the team really go deep into the Triangle or stay in it all the time.

Horn is going to have to also adjust to this roster which isn't the same as what he had in PHX. That's only natural to expect. Still it should be very interesting to see what he comes up with and how the team will look next year. Now he'll have some influence on what Phil does cuz they will have talked about how Horn plans to do things and what he'll need to accomplish his goals. Phil is aware of how important it is for the GM/Prez to support the coach.

I don't care what we ran before, I just know that it was FUGLY! I am happy that JH is here and we not how a really smart guy as a coach. Not like the other 2 tools that phil hired/promoted.

If JH really has autonomy that I have full faith in him that he will run a smart modern offense that maximizes our efficiency and does not hide KP in the post. He will have no problem having KP shoot 10 3's a game if need be.

What this really says is that Phil is 1000% doing this for KP and the young team he's going to be putting around him. This is Phil doing what he thinks is gonna be best for the future and not just what he'd like to see for himself right now. This is a move that is gonna be about how KP is developed and that is a major responsibility that Phil didn't want to mess up. He knows he got a big chip for the future and to the degree he can maximize KP's abilities that will be huge for the success of this franchise.

Clearly Phil was impressed with Horn and I can imagine they must have really vibed, since that was very important to Phil that he not only trusted the man he hired from an X's and O's standpoint, but that he felt he was someone he could work with. So we can at least be happy that Phil got one of the best minds out there according to everyone that knows Horn.

ok ... lmao ... I know that you are trying hard with this Horn nickname but its pretty awful and it feels like way too much over injection.

I am ok if you come up with it, I just think that Horn sounds terrible.

Someone else started using JH and for now ... IMHO that is much better for now unless someone comes up with something better.

Horny - obviously awful
jhck ?
Jhorn?
Jornk?
Abbey ?
Hnck ?
Hornk ? Not horrible
JH - still the default and decent enough?

That's what you chose to focus on from my post? Horn is how I've been referring him for days. You're free to use whatever you choose to refer to Hornacek. I was using Jeff early as well but since there was no consensus what does it matter at this point?

you are free to use it obviously ... just stated my opinion about my thoughts on that nickname.

Don't know maybe it reminds me too much of KVH

Malcolm wrote:Let's wait and see what happens.

It may not turn out to be the anybody-but-Rambis that
most people are now expecting.

Especially if Rambis is kept on as offensive coach.

So let's see about that . . .

That Jackson was converted to Hornacek-ism (?)

Or that Hornacek was converted to Triangle-ism (?)

NEITHER seems especially likely BEFORE the fact . . . but
which is MORE so now that's it's actually come down (?)