djsunyc wrote:martin - the raptors have a payroll of $71 mil. that's 24th. that means there are 23 other teams with higher payrolls in the league. it's a pretty crazy accomplishment to be in the final 4 with such a low payroll. almost never happens. next lowest is gsw and they have $22 mil more.

our big contract will be derozan and while alot of folks don't like his game (myself included) - he is a huge reason we win games in the regular season so his value is that of a max player. ujiri is always about asset retention - and signing dd to the max will fall into that category. and if we chose to move on from lowry after next season, then moving dd will actually be quite easy with an even bigger cap next year. i also think that he would fit into a better systemic offense that casey doesn't instill. (side note - after we dealt rudy and lowry was almost a knick, we also had a dd for beldsoe deal lined up as well).

we have 4 first round picks the next 2 drafts - knicks and our own this draft, clippers and our own next draft.

you make the best with what you've got. we have improved every year as a team the past 5 seasons. and now we've finally made it to the ecf's. we just aren't anywhere near as good as cleveland - they are on another level. and yes, missing jonas is a huge factor b/c he's the one guy that can get easy baskets. cleveland would have no answer for him and he was dominating (star like) in the playoffs until his injury. he was a game changer and we may have been able to get 2 games if he was healthy. but w/o him, and on the heels of 2 seven games series, there was no shot. especially not with the way lebron + kryie + love are all clicking.

the east is good, it's just not top heavy. but to say toronto sucks is just something fans of crappy teams say. but it's eny - he still has a qyntel woods picture on his wall.

we are the best of the 2nd tier teams in the league - nothing wrong with that. final 4. i would say cle + gsw + sas are all better and we are on par with okc(actually slightly better). pop told casey during the season that he expected us to go far and we did. last time the knicks were in the final 4 was in 1999 (a strike shortened season). that's 16 years. and it could be 16 more - there are no guarantees in sports. that's why you take the good when they give it to you.

we are probably going to ride out this current toronto core for another year at least and then see what happens after that.

can we get that much better? well much better means we are championship level so the realistic answer is no and this is as good as this core is going to get. if love + kyrie was out this year instead of last and if jonas was healthy - we are going to the finals. so sometimes luck plays into it - luck and timing. with that said, we could still add a piece to the mix like batum or horford. the good thing about winning is that players values go up which makes deals easier to make and the team more attractive. pivoting from our situation will be quite easy and we have one of the best gm's. 64 wins on the season so far - i'll take it.

the one thing toronto has to deal with that no other team does is that it's in a foreign country. only b/c of the latest success of the franchise have folks actually thinking it's ok to play in toronto. if the team was still losing, it would still be considered siberia.

dude what is fish giving you to smoke these days?

slightly better than OKC? Wanna say that Thunder has just gelled some but TOR ain't on that level. Nor do you get past LAC in 7 game series or MIA if all teams are healthy. I think luck of the playoff draw and super depleted East have the Raptors in EC Finals.

martin wrote:

djsunyc wrote:martin - the raptors have a payroll of $71 mil. that's 24th. that means there are 23 other teams with higher payrolls in the league. it's a pretty crazy accomplishment to be in the final 4 with such a low payroll. almost never happens. next lowest is gsw and they have $22 mil more.

our big contract will be derozan and while alot of folks don't like his game (myself included) - he is a huge reason we win games in the regular season so his value is that of a max player. ujiri is always about asset retention - and signing dd to the max will fall into that category. and if we chose to move on from lowry after next season, then moving dd will actually be quite easy with an even bigger cap next year. i also think that he would fit into a better systemic offense that casey doesn't instill. (side note - after we dealt rudy and lowry was almost a knick, we also had a dd for beldsoe deal lined up as well).

we have 4 first round picks the next 2 drafts - knicks and our own this draft, clippers and our own next draft.

you make the best with what you've got. we have improved every year as a team the past 5 seasons. and now we've finally made it to the ecf's. we just aren't anywhere near as good as cleveland - they are on another level. and yes, missing jonas is a huge factor b/c he's the one guy that can get easy baskets. cleveland would have no answer for him and he was dominating (star like) in the playoffs until his injury. he was a game changer and we may have been able to get 2 games if he was healthy. but w/o him, and on the heels of 2 seven games series, there was no shot. especially not with the way lebron + kryie + love are all clicking.

the east is good, it's just not top heavy. but to say toronto sucks is just something fans of crappy teams say. but it's eny - he still has a qyntel woods picture on his wall.

we are the best of the 2nd tier teams in the league - nothing wrong with that. final 4. i would say cle + gsw + sas are all better and we are on par with okc(actually slightly better). pop told casey during the season that he expected us to go far and we did. last time the knicks were in the final 4 was in 1999 (a strike shortened season). that's 16 years. and it could be 16 more - there are no guarantees in sports. that's why you take the good when they give it to you.

we are probably going to ride out this current toronto core for another year at least and then see what happens after that.

can we get that much better? well much better means we are championship level so the realistic answer is no and this is as good as this core is going to get. if love + kyrie was out this year instead of last and if jonas was healthy - we are going to the finals. so sometimes luck plays into it - luck and timing. with that said, we could still add a piece to the mix like batum or horford. the good thing about winning is that players values go up which makes deals easier to make and the team more attractive. pivoting from our situation will be quite easy and we have one of the best gm's. 64 wins on the season so far - i'll take it.

the one thing toronto has to deal with that no other team does is that it's in a foreign country. only b/c of the latest success of the franchise have folks actually thinking it's ok to play in toronto. if the team was still losing, it would still be considered siberia.

dude what is fish giving you to smoke these days?

slightly better than OKC? Wanna say that Thunder has just gelled some but TOR ain't on that level. Nor do you get past LAC in 7 game series or MIA if all teams are healthy. I think luck of the playoff draw and super depleted East have the Raptors in EC Finals.

martin, honestly the only valid points to be made here are:
1) the knicks suck
2) raptors are better than us
3) everyone is actually better than us
4) Bargnagni sucks and the raptors have our pick
5) the knicks suck
6) the raptors have our pick
7) we sort of should like KP, but only in so much as it gives us something else to do comparison hate with.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:martin - the raptors have a payroll of $71 mil. that's 24th. that means there are 23 other teams with higher payrolls in the league. it's a pretty crazy accomplishment to be in the final 4 with such a low payroll. almost never happens. next lowest is gsw and they have $22 mil more.

our big contract will be derozan and while alot of folks don't like his game (myself included) - he is a huge reason we win games in the regular season so his value is that of a max player. ujiri is always about asset retention - and signing dd to the max will fall into that category. and if we chose to move on from lowry after next season, then moving dd will actually be quite easy with an even bigger cap next year. i also think that he would fit into a better systemic offense that casey doesn't instill. (side note - after we dealt rudy and lowry was almost a knick, we also had a dd for beldsoe deal lined up as well).

we have 4 first round picks the next 2 drafts - knicks and our own this draft, clippers and our own next draft.

you make the best with what you've got. we have improved every year as a team the past 5 seasons. and now we've finally made it to the ecf's. we just aren't anywhere near as good as cleveland - they are on another level. and yes, missing jonas is a huge factor b/c he's the one guy that can get easy baskets. cleveland would have no answer for him and he was dominating (star like) in the playoffs until his injury. he was a game changer and we may have been able to get 2 games if he was healthy. but w/o him, and on the heels of 2 seven games series, there was no shot. especially not with the way lebron + kryie + love are all clicking.

the east is good, it's just not top heavy. but to say toronto sucks is just something fans of crappy teams say. but it's eny - he still has a qyntel woods picture on his wall.

we are the best of the 2nd tier teams in the league - nothing wrong with that. final 4. i would say cle + gsw + sas are all better and we are on par with okc. last time the knicks were in the final 4 was in 1999 (a strike shortened season). that's 16 years. and it could be 16 more - there are no guarantees in sports. that's why you take the good when they give it to you.

we are probably going to ride out this current toronto core for another year at least and then see what happens after that.

can we get that much better? well much better means we are championship level so the realistic answer is no and this is as good as this core is going to get. if love + kyrie was out this year instead of last and if jonas was healthy - we are going to the finals. so sometimes luck plays into it - luck and timing. with that said, we could still add a piece to the mix like batum or horford. the good thing about winning is that players values go up which makes deals easier to make and the team more attractive. pivoting from our situation will be quite easy and we have one of the best gm's. 64 wins on the season so far - i'll take it.

the one thing toronto has to deal with that no other team does is that it's in a foreign country. only b/c of the latest success of the franchise have folks actually thinking it's ok to play in toronto. if the team was still losing, it would still be considered siberia.

few other things to address from this thread:

chandler - even tho we kept improving the past 5 years - my biggest gripe with casey is our offensive system. he relies too much on lowry + dd to carry the load. we did see an adjustment and saw us using jonas alot more in the playoffs but overall, it's still an iso-heavy guard team. maybe changing the offense will help but you still need the guards to hit shots and lowry + dd's shot really struggled for most of the playoffs.

swish - carroll was hurt alot of the year. but when he played, he made an impact. we just don't maximize his offensive output based on our iso heavy style of play. but he has provided everything we needed when we signed him in the offseason. he just is no match for lebron - but he allowed us to single cover george + wade which is huge considering alot of folks would have to help/switch or double. if he didn't get hurt, we may have 60 wins this year and then the #1 seed - then maybe we split the first two games at home and outlook is a little different.

wh4t - the knicks are 1 or 2 pieces away to get to #2. the knicks are 1-2 starters and 3-4 bench players away. need to get a quality guard with breakdown and takeover potential and the team needs alot of depth.

knicks1248 - we are a very good 3 point shooting team - but the two 7 game series have tired us out. we are missing wide open looks - tired legs. but without the jonas release valve - our offense is even easier to guard with free safety lebron.

you make good points DJ. Im a diehard knick fan but we have no right to criticize the raptors. You are already a good team plus you are loaded with first rounders including our lottery pick from the insanely stupid bargnani trade

EAD and go to your own team's forum with this....

wargames wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:martin - the raptors have a payroll of $71 mil. that's 24th. that means there are 23 other teams with higher payrolls in the league. it's a pretty crazy accomplishment to be in the final 4 with such a low payroll. almost never happens. next lowest is gsw and they have $22 mil more.

our big contract will be derozan and while alot of folks don't like his game (myself included) - he is a huge reason we win games in the regular season so his value is that of a max player. ujiri is always about asset retention - and signing dd to the max will fall into that category. and if we chose to move on from lowry after next season, then moving dd will actually be quite easy with an even bigger cap next year. i also think that he would fit into a better systemic offense that casey doesn't instill. (side note - after we dealt rudy and lowry was almost a knick, we also had a dd for beldsoe deal lined up as well).

we have 4 first round picks the next 2 drafts - knicks and our own this draft, clippers and our own next draft.

you make the best with what you've got. we have improved every year as a team the past 5 seasons. and now we've finally made it to the ecf's. we just aren't anywhere near as good as cleveland - they are on another level. and yes, missing jonas is a huge factor b/c he's the one guy that can get easy baskets. cleveland would have no answer for him and he was dominating (star like) in the playoffs until his injury. he was a game changer and we may have been able to get 2 games if he was healthy. but w/o him, and on the heels of 2 seven games series, there was no shot. especially not with the way lebron + kryie + love are all clicking.

the east is good, it's just not top heavy. but to say toronto sucks is just something fans of crappy teams say. but it's eny - he still has a qyntel woods picture on his wall.

we are the best of the 2nd tier teams in the league - nothing wrong with that. final 4. i would say cle + gsw + sas are all better and we are on par with okc. last time the knicks were in the final 4 was in 1999 (a strike shortened season). that's 16 years. and it could be 16 more - there are no guarantees in sports. that's why you take the good when they give it to you.

we are probably going to ride out this current toronto core for another year at least and then see what happens after that.

can we get that much better? well much better means we are championship level so the realistic answer is no and this is as good as this core is going to get. if love + kyrie was out this year instead of last and if jonas was healthy - we are going to the finals. so sometimes luck plays into it - luck and timing. with that said, we could still add a piece to the mix like batum or horford. the good thing about winning is that players values go up which makes deals easier to make and the team more attractive. pivoting from our situation will be quite easy and we have one of the best gm's. 64 wins on the season so far - i'll take it.

the one thing toronto has to deal with that no other team does is that it's in a foreign country. only b/c of the latest success of the franchise have folks actually thinking it's ok to play in toronto. if the team was still losing, it would still be considered siberia.

few other things to address from this thread:

chandler - even tho we kept improving the past 5 years - my biggest gripe with casey is our offensive system. he relies too much on lowry + dd to carry the load. we did see an adjustment and saw us using jonas alot more in the playoffs but overall, it's still an iso-heavy guard team. maybe changing the offense will help but you still need the guards to hit shots and lowry + dd's shot really struggled for most of the playoffs.

swish - carroll was hurt alot of the year. but when he played, he made an impact. we just don't maximize his offensive output based on our iso heavy style of play. but he has provided everything we needed when we signed him in the offseason. he just is no match for lebron - but he allowed us to single cover george + wade which is huge considering alot of folks would have to help/switch or double. if he didn't get hurt, we may have 60 wins this year and then the #1 seed - then maybe we split the first two games at home and outlook is a little different.

wh4t - the knicks are 1 or 2 pieces away to get to #2. the knicks are 1-2 starters and 3-4 bench players away. need to get a quality guard with breakdown and takeover potential and the team needs alot of depth.

knicks1248 - we are a very good 3 point shooting team - but the two 7 game series have tired us out. we are missing wide open looks - tired legs. but without the jonas release valve - our offense is even easier to guard with free safety lebron.

you make good points DJ. Im a diehard knick fan but we have no right to criticize the raptors. You are already a good team plus you are loaded with first rounders including our lottery pick from the insanely stupid bargnani trade

EAD and go to your own team's forum with this....

StarksEwing1 wrote:

wargames wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:martin - the raptors have a payroll of $71 mil. that's 24th. that means there are 23 other teams with higher payrolls in the league. it's a pretty crazy accomplishment to be in the final 4 with such a low payroll. almost never happens. next lowest is gsw and they have $22 mil more.

our big contract will be derozan and while alot of folks don't like his game (myself included) - he is a huge reason we win games in the regular season so his value is that of a max player. ujiri is always about asset retention - and signing dd to the max will fall into that category. and if we chose to move on from lowry after next season, then moving dd will actually be quite easy with an even bigger cap next year. i also think that he would fit into a better systemic offense that casey doesn't instill. (side note - after we dealt rudy and lowry was almost a knick, we also had a dd for beldsoe deal lined up as well).

we have 4 first round picks the next 2 drafts - knicks and our own this draft, clippers and our own next draft.

you make the best with what you've got. we have improved every year as a team the past 5 seasons. and now we've finally made it to the ecf's. we just aren't anywhere near as good as cleveland - they are on another level. and yes, missing jonas is a huge factor b/c he's the one guy that can get easy baskets. cleveland would have no answer for him and he was dominating (star like) in the playoffs until his injury. he was a game changer and we may have been able to get 2 games if he was healthy. but w/o him, and on the heels of 2 seven games series, there was no shot. especially not with the way lebron + kryie + love are all clicking.

the east is good, it's just not top heavy. but to say toronto sucks is just something fans of crappy teams say. but it's eny - he still has a qyntel woods picture on his wall.

we are the best of the 2nd tier teams in the league - nothing wrong with that. final 4. i would say cle + gsw + sas are all better and we are on par with okc. last time the knicks were in the final 4 was in 1999 (a strike shortened season). that's 16 years. and it could be 16 more - there are no guarantees in sports. that's why you take the good when they give it to you.

we are probably going to ride out this current toronto core for another year at least and then see what happens after that.

can we get that much better? well much better means we are championship level so the realistic answer is no and this is as good as this core is going to get. if love + kyrie was out this year instead of last and if jonas was healthy - we are going to the finals. so sometimes luck plays into it - luck and timing. with that said, we could still add a piece to the mix like batum or horford. the good thing about winning is that players values go up which makes deals easier to make and the team more attractive. pivoting from our situation will be quite easy and we have one of the best gm's. 64 wins on the season so far - i'll take it.

the one thing toronto has to deal with that no other team does is that it's in a foreign country. only b/c of the latest success of the franchise have folks actually thinking it's ok to play in toronto. if the team was still losing, it would still be considered siberia.

few other things to address from this thread:

chandler - even tho we kept improving the past 5 years - my biggest gripe with casey is our offensive system. he relies too much on lowry + dd to carry the load. we did see an adjustment and saw us using jonas alot more in the playoffs but overall, it's still an iso-heavy guard team. maybe changing the offense will help but you still need the guards to hit shots and lowry + dd's shot really struggled for most of the playoffs.

swish - carroll was hurt alot of the year. but when he played, he made an impact. we just don't maximize his offensive output based on our iso heavy style of play. but he has provided everything we needed when we signed him in the offseason. he just is no match for lebron - but he allowed us to single cover george + wade which is huge considering alot of folks would have to help/switch or double. if he didn't get hurt, we may have 60 wins this year and then the #1 seed - then maybe we split the first two games at home and outlook is a little different.

wh4t - the knicks are 1 or 2 pieces away to get to #2. the knicks are 1-2 starters and 3-4 bench players away. need to get a quality guard with breakdown and takeover potential and the team needs alot of depth.

knicks1248 - we are a very good 3 point shooting team - but the two 7 game series have tired us out. we are missing wide open looks - tired legs. but without the jonas release valve - our offense is even easier to guard with free safety lebron.

you make good points DJ. Im a diehard knick fan but we have no right to criticize the raptors. You are already a good team plus you are loaded with first rounders including our lottery pick from the insanely stupid bargnani trade

EAD and go to your own team's forum with this....

he didnt create this thread, EnySpree did. It was a unecessary thread to begin with plus it makes our fans look foolish since Toronto was in the ECF AND have our lotto pick

Nalod wrote:Cavs had one of those nights where the good shots did not fall and they did not get to the line.
Raptors had it going on.

Now the aura of invincibility is removed. Now if Raptors can take another game. You will see the JR and Shump and all the other start folding like a cheap tent.