fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:God I hope not. Stash that money away for the remote chance of landing a Curry, Westbrook, CP3, or Greek Freak next summer.

There is literally zero chance we get any of those guys.

i think Giannis is a RFA next summer. Bucks will have some issues though. They have a lot of money being tied up and they'll have to start thinking who they can afford and who they can't. Jabari is not far off before he sticks his hand out. Would love the Freak on NYK

guys change teams for lots of reasons. Cant imagine Curry leaving. Westbrook might but I would expect him to go to the Lakers as he's a Cali guy, but he's a guy that has off the court interests that make NYC enticing. Chris Paul is a long shot but there is a connection there. There are a ton of othe good players that year also though. Much better FA crop than this one.

The 2017 FA is complicated by the fact that there will likely be a huge lockout before it. Hard to know what the cap will look like and plan for a specific number. Right now that cap number is SUPPOSED to be $108M. Which seems crazy. Which is probably why there will be a lockout.

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think the Conley situation is fluid, but I suspect he'll try to stay in Memphis for the max.

I see Memphis maxing Conley and trying to get Pau Gasol to play with his brother. I think they might get Vogel and they have a team option on Lance Stephenson. Memphis could be very good again quickly, provided they get healthy.

I like Conley a lot, but at $25M a year? Yikes.

i have a strange feeling Grizzlies are going to blow up and start over. SOmething real strange there with coach wanting out for last 2 years and Wallace having his own rumores

I wouldn't be surprised if they let Conley go and they already told him he wouldn't be offered more than he was alreayd making. I could see him in Sacramento -- for some stability.

ALso if M.Gasol can be traded I'd suspect the Celts will be offering. It seems crazy to say (no pun intended) but they have too many young players and too many picks which are slotted for the same type of young guys they already have. My crystal ball says they offer their two latter first round picks and something else for Gasol. They also have a history of trades and IIRC Wallace has Celt connections

I personally don't get the love for COnley. Not a fit, and why would you want to pay a guy more (perhaps a lot more) than he's currently making, when all you can expect is that his play will decline during the contract. We want guys on the upswing if we're going to pay a lot

I agree. But the way free agency is structured is that guys are on their rookie deals for the first 3-4 years in the league, then the first time they hit free agency, it's as Restricted free agents, so the norm is to sign an extension for the next 4-5 years with their first team. So guys don't hit real unrestricted free agency for the first time until they've been in the league for 8-9 years and they're either in the middle of their prime, or headed toward a decline. It's REALLY hard to get a player on the way up in Free Agency, because most guys don't wait the year to sign their big extension. Monroe is one of the few recent guys I can think of who did it.

I agree the Grizzlies could go either way - they could double down on what they have or they could blow it all up. Their coaching hire might be a clue. If they hire a Vogel, I think that's a sign they double down, keep Gasol, keep Conley, keep Lance Stephenson, sign a Pau Gasol type.

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:God I hope not. Stash that money away for the remote chance of landing a Curry, Westbrook, CP3, or Greek Freak next summer.

There is literally zero chance we get any of those guys.

i think Giannis is a RFA next summer. Bucks will have some issues though. They have a lot of money being tied up and they'll have to start thinking who they can afford and who they can't. Jabari is not far off before he sticks his hand out. Would love the Freak on NYK

Monroe's contract is pretty short. They have flexibility.

Knicks can sign a Fa this offseason and sign one next of season. They have the flexibility to do so if they choose.

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think the Conley situation is fluid, but I suspect he'll try to stay in Memphis for the max.

I see Memphis maxing Conley and trying to get Pau Gasol to play with his brother. I think they might get Vogel and they have a team option on Lance Stephenson. Memphis could be very good again quickly, provided they get healthy.

I like Conley a lot, but at $25M a year? Yikes.

i have a strange feeling Grizzlies are going to blow up and start over. SOmething real strange there with coach wanting out for last 2 years and Wallace having his own rumores

I wouldn't be surprised if they let Conley go and they already told him he wouldn't be offered more than he was alreayd making. I could see him in Sacramento -- for some stability.

ALso if M.Gasol can be traded I'd suspect the Celts will be offering. It seems crazy to say (no pun intended) but they have too many young players and too many picks which are slotted for the same type of young guys they already have. My crystal ball says they offer their two latter first round picks and something else for Gasol. They also have a history of trades and IIRC Wallace has Celt connections

I personally don't get the love for COnley. Not a fit, and why would you want to pay a guy more (perhaps a lot more) than he's currently making, when all you can expect is that his play will decline during the contract. We want guys on the upswing if we're going to pay a lot

Funny you say that because I was trying to figure out how we could leverage the Celtics'assets to bring Marc Gasol to NY as well. The best I came up with was:

BOS: Robin Lopez, cash (via NYK) and future 2nd rounders (via NYK)
MEM: Amir Johnson, 16th pick and 23rd pick
NYK: Marc Gasol and pick no. 45

I'd love Conley and Gasol to pair with what we've got but I doubt the Celtics would allow it to happen, since they are likely to be more interested in Gasol than Lopez.

As for Conley, you raise some pretty valid points but how is he not a fit in a pick and roll heavy offense (that Hornancek is likely to run)? I wouldn't pay him the max but would approach it and make sure that his 4th year has a team option to effectively make the contract a 3 year deal. At 29 years old, we'd still be able to get good play out of him during the length of the deal.

That trade is lopsided for NY. No way I see MEM doing that.

Nor do I, if Gasol is healthy. The thing is that at his age, size/wight and injury, there is a fair amount of risk involved in acquiring him. Broken bones in a big man's lower extremities has historically been a death sentence for their career e.g. Yao Ming, Greg Oden, and Sam Bowie. I don't think the risk involved, however, would assuage whatever interest a team like the Celtics would have in him though. The Celtics are teeming with assets and could take a loss in a trade if Gasol is handicapped moving forward; and there is no doubt that he's miles better than Lopez when healthy.

NardDogNation wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think the Conley situation is fluid, but I suspect he'll try to stay in Memphis for the max.

I see Memphis maxing Conley and trying to get Pau Gasol to play with his brother. I think they might get Vogel and they have a team option on Lance Stephenson. Memphis could be very good again quickly, provided they get healthy.

I like Conley a lot, but at $25M a year? Yikes.

i have a strange feeling Grizzlies are going to blow up and start over. SOmething real strange there with coach wanting out for last 2 years and Wallace having his own rumores

I wouldn't be surprised if they let Conley go and they already told him he wouldn't be offered more than he was alreayd making. I could see him in Sacramento -- for some stability.

ALso if M.Gasol can be traded I'd suspect the Celts will be offering. It seems crazy to say (no pun intended) but they have too many young players and too many picks which are slotted for the same type of young guys they already have. My crystal ball says they offer their two latter first round picks and something else for Gasol. They also have a history of trades and IIRC Wallace has Celt connections

I personally don't get the love for COnley. Not a fit, and why would you want to pay a guy more (perhaps a lot more) than he's currently making, when all you can expect is that his play will decline during the contract. We want guys on the upswing if we're going to pay a lot

Funny you say that because I was trying to figure out how we could leverage the Celtics'assets to bring Marc Gasol to NY as well. The best I came up with was:

BOS: Robin Lopez, cash (via NYK) and future 2nd rounders (via NYK)
MEM: Amir Johnson, 16th pick and 23rd pick
NYK: Marc Gasol and pick no. 45

I'd love Conley and Gasol to pair with what we've got but I doubt the Celtics would allow it to happen, since they are likely to be more interested in Gasol than Lopez.

As for Conley, you raise some pretty valid points but how is he not a fit in a pick and roll heavy offense (that Hornancek is likely to run)? I wouldn't pay him the max but would approach it and make sure that his 4th year has a team option to effectively make the contract a 3 year deal. At 29 years old, we'd still be able to get good play out of him during the length of the deal.

conley is on the shorter end of things and he's too old for what we need (plus too expensive). If we were true contenders and felt we needed an upgrade for a year or two then maybe. He's exactly the kind of player you might like in year 1 and then in the other years cursing at him and his cap hit.

wargames wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:God I hope not. Stash that money away for the remote chance of landing a Curry, Westbrook, CP3, or Greek Freak next summer.

There is literally zero chance we get any of those guys.

i think Giannis is a RFA next summer. Bucks will have some issues though. They have a lot of money being tied up and they'll have to start thinking who they can afford and who they can't. Jabari is not far off before he sticks his hand out. Would love the Freak on NYK

Gianni's or Gordon Hayward would be my top FA goals next year. I have no idea if the Knicks will be decent enough to even entertain chasing them though.

Seriously, you think the Greek Freak is loving Milwaukee's culture? (no disrespect). I can totally see him here filling a Lamar Odom role in his own style. He's a very, very willing passer. His legs and arms would make you think he was 7'3" and he runs!

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think the Conley situation is fluid, but I suspect he'll try to stay in Memphis for the max.

I see Memphis maxing Conley and trying to get Pau Gasol to play with his brother. I think they might get Vogel and they have a team option on Lance Stephenson. Memphis could be very good again quickly, provided they get healthy.

I like Conley a lot, but at $25M a year? Yikes.

i have a strange feeling Grizzlies are going to blow up and start over. SOmething real strange there with coach wanting out for last 2 years and Wallace having his own rumores

I wouldn't be surprised if they let Conley go and they already told him he wouldn't be offered more than he was alreayd making. I could see him in Sacramento -- for some stability.

ALso if M.Gasol can be traded I'd suspect the Celts will be offering. It seems crazy to say (no pun intended) but they have too many young players and too many picks which are slotted for the same type of young guys they already have. My crystal ball says they offer their two latter first round picks and something else for Gasol. They also have a history of trades and IIRC Wallace has Celt connections

I personally don't get the love for COnley. Not a fit, and why would you want to pay a guy more (perhaps a lot more) than he's currently making, when all you can expect is that his play will decline during the contract. We want guys on the upswing if we're going to pay a lot

Funny you say that because I was trying to figure out how we could leverage the Celtics'assets to bring Marc Gasol to NY as well. The best I came up with was:

BOS: Robin Lopez, cash (via NYK) and future 2nd rounders (via NYK)
MEM: Amir Johnson, 16th pick and 23rd pick
NYK: Marc Gasol and pick no. 45

I'd love Conley and Gasol to pair with what we've got but I doubt the Celtics would allow it to happen, since they are likely to be more interested in Gasol than Lopez.

As for Conley, you raise some pretty valid points but how is he not a fit in a pick and roll heavy offense (that Hornancek is likely to run)? I wouldn't pay him the max but would approach it and make sure that his 4th year has a team option to effectively make the contract a 3 year deal. At 29 years old, we'd still be able to get good play out of him during the length of the deal.

That trade is lopsided for NY. No way I see MEM doing that.

I agree. I could even see Boston departing with the 3 pick -- they used a 5 i believe for Ray Allen -- or perhaps packaging picks with Olynk or Sullinger. They're in a very strange situation now

NardDogNation wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Jeff Hornancek is a game-change and leaves me feeling that we'll be running a more traditional style of offense. That being said, the utility for a prototypical PG becomes viable for us and leads me to believe that we'll put on a fullcourt press for the best one available this offseason: Mike Conley Jr.

So given what PHO ran with JH, is it a good pairing? Is he a wise long-term investment in light of this?

I'm not sure I get the more traditional offense bit. Triangle is older than most of the offenses being run now. The dude that created it was Tex Winters Coach, Sam Barry! Just think about how long ago we're talking here. Dude was coaching the Triangle before the NBA existed.

As for Conley, I don't think Phil is going in that direction. I think Phil is pretty much done with old guys and is moving younger. I could be wrong of course, but I think this rebuild is no longer about Melo and his timeline. Conley may only have a few good years left. He ended this one with injury. I just don't get a sense that Phil is thinking that way. I think he's going younger and cheaper.

"Traditional offense" involves the PG being the initiator and creator of the teams offensive sets. The triangle offense completely de-emphasizes that and instead chooses to take the ball out of a "floor generals" hands; instead generating opportunities through ball and player movement. Conley is an excellent piece if you're looking to do the former....he's a bad fit you're looking to do the latter.

And I'm all for signing players to market/below-market contracts but if you're looking to win, you need gamechangers that demand a big payday. IMO, Conley is the type of player that can change a team's fortunes and is secretly one of the best players in the league. I also think it's a difficult sell to try and convince me that the Knicks are not building according to Melo's timeline when our past offseason involved signing prime/past-prime veterans like Robin Lopez and Aaron Afflalo, while playing Jose Calderon extended minutes.

I love this explanation of what Conley brings to the game. My problem with him is that he consumes a major part of the available dollars. He has also become injury prone, and in a sensitive area of his foot/leg. The game evolves ,and the younger version of Conley is out there. I'm looking for that player... at a fourth of his cost.

Chandler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think the Conley situation is fluid, but I suspect he'll try to stay in Memphis for the max.

I see Memphis maxing Conley and trying to get Pau Gasol to play with his brother. I think they might get Vogel and they have a team option on Lance Stephenson. Memphis could be very good again quickly, provided they get healthy.

I like Conley a lot, but at $25M a year? Yikes.

i have a strange feeling Grizzlies are going to blow up and start over. SOmething real strange there with coach wanting out for last 2 years and Wallace having his own rumores

I wouldn't be surprised if they let Conley go and they already told him he wouldn't be offered more than he was alreayd making. I could see him in Sacramento -- for some stability.

ALso if M.Gasol can be traded I'd suspect the Celts will be offering. It seems crazy to say (no pun intended) but they have too many young players and too many picks which are slotted for the same type of young guys they already have. My crystal ball says they offer their two latter first round picks and something else for Gasol. They also have a history of trades and IIRC Wallace has Celt connections

I personally don't get the love for COnley. Not a fit, and why would you want to pay a guy more (perhaps a lot more) than he's currently making, when all you can expect is that his play will decline during the contract. We want guys on the upswing if we're going to pay a lot

Funny you say that because I was trying to figure out how we could leverage the Celtics'assets to bring Marc Gasol to NY as well. The best I came up with was:

BOS: Robin Lopez, cash (via NYK) and future 2nd rounders (via NYK)
MEM: Amir Johnson, 16th pick and 23rd pick
NYK: Marc Gasol and pick no. 45

I'd love Conley and Gasol to pair with what we've got but I doubt the Celtics would allow it to happen, since they are likely to be more interested in Gasol than Lopez.

As for Conley, you raise some pretty valid points but how is he not a fit in a pick and roll heavy offense (that Hornancek is likely to run)? I wouldn't pay him the max but would approach it and make sure that his 4th year has a team option to effectively make the contract a 3 year deal. At 29 years old, we'd still be able to get good play out of him during the length of the deal.

conley is on the shorter end of things and he's too old for what we need (plus too expensive). If we were true contenders and felt we needed an upgrade for a year or two then maybe. He's exactly the kind of player you might like in year 1 and then in the other years cursing at him and his cap hit.

As Conley ages, we have Jerian Grant in place to gradually assume more responsibility. In the interim, I could see Conley being invaluable as a mentor and stopgap in that process. Mind you, I'm not advocating giving Conley the max....in fact, I'd look to have it in the vincinity of what Marc Gasol is currently making except with annual declines to accomodate his play. And in spite of whatever he makes, the cap will be increasing significantly in 2017 which will still allow us to add another big chip. Should KP make his expected improvements along the way and Hornancek recapture the magic of his first two seasons in PHO, we should be able to compete against CLE.

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:God I hope not. Stash that money away for the remote chance of landing a Curry, Westbrook, CP3, or Greek Freak next summer.

There is literally zero chance we get any of those guys.

Doesn't matter, you have to try. Even if it means settling for a Gordon Hayward, Kyle Lowry, or Dennis Schroeder....you have to try.

Settling for this mediocre 2016 free agent class is NBA franchise death.

I prefer Conley to Lowry. Schroeder is yet another restricted free agent that the Hawks won't allow to walk. And we could still sign Hayward, in spite of Conley's contract, given the cap increasing significantly in 2017 as well. So I feel that your point is moot.

NardDogNation wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:God I hope not. Stash that money away for the remote chance of landing a Curry, Westbrook, CP3, or Greek Freak next summer.

Westbrook's a cancer and the Greek Freak is a restricted free agent, which does not make them viable options.

CP3, who has logged crazy mileage up until this point, will be 32 years old at 6"0' during the 2017 offseason. I'd prefer Conley at that juncture in his respective career. Worse comes to worse though, we could trade Conley for CP3, since I doubt the Clippers would want to lose him for nothing.

Stephen Curry is just a pipedream.

That being said, I don't know how Conley doesn't become the unquestioned BPA to us now or in the future via free agency.

i haven't checked their numbers but have the suspicion that the Bucks are getting logjammed on deals. they gave middleton and monroe decent money. i think MCW too. then you have Jabari to take care of and the Freak. Numbers might not add up. They might need to flip some of those guys for picks or risk losing them