crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

callmened wrote:yep I heard. vogel is VERY old school. DEFENSE first and he likes having bigs

hey I would love it. to me hes a top 10 coach, from NJ and can handle the media. im just not sure if he wants a someone telling him what to do

Phil isn't going to be micro managing Vogel. Besides Vogel respects Phil and actually WANTS to learn from him. It's IMO a perfect match!!!

???? Where are you getting that from.

Fisher was fired because he didn't let Phil micro-manage him enough. This is on the record.

Where has Vogel said he wants to learn from Phil.

Regarding Fish, he was a rookie and needed help. Also Phil didn't really go crazy if he wasn't popping up at practice but was only sending him emails.

As for Vogel there are a lot of hints that Vogel has a good view of Phil and wants to learn from him. You should know that I don't just make **** up!

As Marc Berman of the New York Post notes, Vogel and Knicks president of basketball operations Phil Jackson have some history together. Vogel was an advanced scout for the Los Angeles Lakers during the 2005-2006 season, though he says he only met Jackson once at a shootaround. In a 2013 interview, Vogel praised Jackson while talking about then-Pacers assistant Brian Shaw.

“From the standpoint of studying the NBA game, I was always a big fan of Phil Jackson and his approach,” Vogel said at the time. “Obviously, he had great players, but there were a lot of coaches with great players that didn’t win at the level he did. That was a big reason why I hired Brian Shaw. He was as close to Phil as anyone could be, and I thought I could rely on that experience, and it’s been awesome.”

To make matters more interesting, Berman spoke to a source close to Vogel who said there “could be intrigue in coaching the Knicks,” as Vogel grew up in New Jersey and some of his family members attend all of the Knicks’ home games.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

callmened wrote:yep I heard. vogel is VERY old school. DEFENSE first and he likes having bigs

hey I would love it. to me hes a top 10 coach, from NJ and can handle the media. im just not sure if he wants a someone telling him what to do

Phil isn't going to be micro managing Vogel. Besides Vogel respects Phil and actually WANTS to learn from him. It's IMO a perfect match!!!

???? Where are you getting that from.

Fisher was fired because he didn't let Phil micro-manage him enough. This is on the record.

Where has Vogel said he wants to learn from Phil.

Regarding Fish, he was a rookie and needed help. Also Phil didn't really go crazy if he wasn't popping up at practice but was only sending him emails.

As for Vogel there are a lot of hints that Vogel has a good view of Phil and wants to learn from him. You should know that I don't just make **** up!

As Marc Berman of the New York Post notes, Vogel and Knicks president of basketball operations Phil Jackson have some history together. Vogel was an advanced scout for the Los Angeles Lakers during the 2005-2006 season, though he says he only met Jackson once at a shootaround. In a 2013 interview, Vogel praised Jackson while talking about then-Pacers assistant Brian Shaw.

“From the standpoint of studying the NBA game, I was always a big fan of Phil Jackson and his approach,” Vogel said at the time. “Obviously, he had great players, but there were a lot of coaches with great players that didn’t win at the level he did. That was a big reason why I hired Brian Shaw. He was as close to Phil as anyone could be, and I thought I could rely on that experience, and it’s been awesome.”

To make matters more interesting, Berman spoke to a source close to Vogel who said there “could be intrigue in coaching the Knicks,” as Vogel grew up in New Jersey and some of his family members attend all of the Knicks’ home games.

http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/frank-vogel-knicks/303304

I think he has a positive view of Phil and that could definitely help.

But we don't have much evidence that Phil doesn't micro-manage, in fact we have evidence to the contrary.

I am cautiously optimistic that it's a good fit, but I'm not gonna say Phil wants this quite yet.

If he does this, my faith will be restored in him quite a bit. We'll see what he does though.

crzymdups wrote:

wargames wrote:In theory steve mills can do most of the leg work and Phil can just be involved in the final interview. I honestly don't think their is a better match for what Vogel would want to do (big front court) than the knicks. Also the knicks can pay him a ton. I don't think Phil needs to rush to get him.

Sacremento would be another team that could go big, except as I've said else where they are even more dysfunctional that the knicks. Houston is going to lose Dwight. Am I forgetting another opening?

Also this is funny but Brian Shaw might get paid too. Between LA apparently wanting him and the likelihood if Vogel came here he would also be wanted here I could see him getting paid. I know people laugh at Phil's coaching tree.... but he's at least his former players are getting paid.

Shaw may indeed get paid... as a top assistant.

Also, I don't think any good coach would go into Sacramento after what happened to Karl there. Karl was totally undercut. That Sacramento team is a mess on the level of the Isiah Knicks right now. Kevin McHale withdrew his name from their coaching search.

Yeah that's what I meant. Shaw is likely going to get paid to be a top assistant.

Karl did a lot of the undercutting himself by trying to get Boogie traded behind his GM's back. I think someone desperate for a HC job (Ewing maybe) takes that job if they are willing to deal with the Headache.

wargames wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

wargames wrote:In theory steve mills can do most of the leg work and Phil can just be involved in the final interview. I honestly don't think their is a better match for what Vogel would want to do (big front court) than the knicks. Also the knicks can pay him a ton. I don't think Phil needs to rush to get him.

Sacremento would be another team that could go big, except as I've said else where they are even more dysfunctional that the knicks. Houston is going to lose Dwight. Am I forgetting another opening?

Also this is funny but Brian Shaw might get paid too. Between LA apparently wanting him and the likelihood if Vogel came here he would also be wanted here I could see him getting paid. I know people laugh at Phil's coaching tree.... but he's at least his former players are getting paid.

Shaw may indeed get paid... as a top assistant.

Also, I don't think any good coach would go into Sacramento after what happened to Karl there. Karl was totally undercut. That Sacramento team is a mess on the level of the Isiah Knicks right now. Kevin McHale withdrew his name from their coaching search.

Yeah that's what I meant. Shaw is likely going to get paid to be a top assistant.

Karl did a lot of the undercutting himself by trying to get Boogie traded behind his GM's back. I think someone desperate for a HC job (Ewing maybe) takes that job if they are willing to deal with the Headache.

Well, yeah, there's always someone desperate enough. Only 30 HC jobs in the NBA.

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

callmened wrote:yep I heard. vogel is VERY old school. DEFENSE first and he likes having bigs

hey I would love it. to me hes a top 10 coach, from NJ and can handle the media. im just not sure if he wants a someone telling him what to do

Phil isn't going to be micro managing Vogel. Besides Vogel respects Phil and actually WANTS to learn from him. It's IMO a perfect match!!!

???? Where are you getting that from.

Fisher was fired because he didn't let Phil micro-manage him enough. This is on the record.

Where has Vogel said he wants to learn from Phil.

Regarding Fish, he was a rookie and needed help. Also Phil didn't really go crazy if he wasn't popping up at practice but was only sending him emails.

As for Vogel there are a lot of hints that Vogel has a good view of Phil and wants to learn from him. You should know that I don't just make **** up!

As Marc Berman of the New York Post notes, Vogel and Knicks president of basketball operations Phil Jackson have some history together. Vogel was an advanced scout for the Los Angeles Lakers during the 2005-2006 season, though he says he only met Jackson once at a shootaround. In a 2013 interview, Vogel praised Jackson while talking about then-Pacers assistant Brian Shaw.

“From the standpoint of studying the NBA game, I was always a big fan of Phil Jackson and his approach,” Vogel said at the time. “Obviously, he had great players, but there were a lot of coaches with great players that didn’t win at the level he did. That was a big reason why I hired Brian Shaw. He was as close to Phil as anyone could be, and I thought I could rely on that experience, and it’s been awesome.”

To make matters more interesting, Berman spoke to a source close to Vogel who said there “could be intrigue in coaching the Knicks,” as Vogel grew up in New Jersey and some of his family members attend all of the Knicks’ home games.

http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/frank-vogel-knicks/303304

I think he has a positive view of Phil and that could definitely help.

But we don't have much evidence that Phil doesn't micro-manage, in fact we have evidence to the contrary.

I am cautiously optimistic that it's a good fit, but I'm not gonna say Phil wants this quite yet.

If he does this, my faith will be restored in him quite a bit. We'll see what he does though.

We do? I don't remember that

Yeah and there were those who actually bashed Phil for not being more involved this year with Fish! That is a fact. Fish wanted to do his own thing and after a while Phil just left him alone.

Nevertheless, Stefan Bondy of The New York Daily News reports that Fisher came off as territorial in his response to Jackson’s desire to play a bigger role with the coaching staff.

“(Jackson) was here (at training camp). He doesn’t coach the team, I coach the team,” Fisher said. “So he wasn’t involved.”
Fortunately, he’s not actually insecure about the situation.

“I was asked a question. I don’t think about it until I’m asked about it. I’m me and [Phil Jackson]’s him and I don’t get caught up in how much and not enough and it’s my job. I’m the coach of the team. How we do will fall on my shoulders,” said Fisher. “It doesn’t matter who says what or how many percentages or times we meet and watch film or whatever. It’s on me. And I’m comfortable with that. I wouldn’t have accepted the job if I wasn’t comfortable with it.”

What did Phil say about why Fisher was fired?

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

callmened wrote:yep I heard. vogel is VERY old school. DEFENSE first and he likes having bigs

hey I would love it. to me hes a top 10 coach, from NJ and can handle the media. im just not sure if he wants a someone telling him what to do

Phil isn't going to be micro managing Vogel. Besides Vogel respects Phil and actually WANTS to learn from him. It's IMO a perfect match!!!

???? Where are you getting that from.

Fisher was fired because he didn't let Phil micro-manage him enough. This is on the record.

Where has Vogel said he wants to learn from Phil.

Regarding Fish, he was a rookie and needed help. Also Phil didn't really go crazy if he wasn't popping up at practice but was only sending him emails.

As for Vogel there are a lot of hints that Vogel has a good view of Phil and wants to learn from him. You should know that I don't just make **** up!

As Marc Berman of the New York Post notes, Vogel and Knicks president of basketball operations Phil Jackson have some history together. Vogel was an advanced scout for the Los Angeles Lakers during the 2005-2006 season, though he says he only met Jackson once at a shootaround. In a 2013 interview, Vogel praised Jackson while talking about then-Pacers assistant Brian Shaw.

“From the standpoint of studying the NBA game, I was always a big fan of Phil Jackson and his approach,” Vogel said at the time. “Obviously, he had great players, but there were a lot of coaches with great players that didn’t win at the level he did. That was a big reason why I hired Brian Shaw. He was as close to Phil as anyone could be, and I thought I could rely on that experience, and it’s been awesome.”

To make matters more interesting, Berman spoke to a source close to Vogel who said there “could be intrigue in coaching the Knicks,” as Vogel grew up in New Jersey and some of his family members attend all of the Knicks’ home games.

http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/frank-vogel-knicks/303304

I think he has a positive view of Phil and that could definitely help.

But we don't have much evidence that Phil doesn't micro-manage, in fact we have evidence to the contrary.

I am cautiously optimistic that it's a good fit, but I'm not gonna say Phil wants this quite yet.

If he does this, my faith will be restored in him quite a bit. We'll see what he does though.

We do? I don't remember that

See Derek Fisher who was fired for "responding to texts in one word answers," "not listening to input," "not listening to certain assistant coaches enough"

Phil said this. It's on the record. Video on knicks.com. I'm not making this up.

Fisher was fired because he didn't fall in line as a Triangle soldier enough. Phil and Rambis have said this over and over and over.

Somehow the Phil supporters here think that isn't true even though Phil has explicitly said this multiple times

Oh I've heard all of that and seen the tapes and Phil's acknowledgement of it. Still awaiting the micro-manage part.

You ever have a boss that send you text messages? I have. The micro-manage-y kind.

You ever have a boss that tells you how to do your job? I have. The micro-manage-y kind.

What do you think telling Fisher he has to run the Triangle and listen to Phil's assistants vs Fisher's own OKC assistants equals.

It's micro-management. Still waiting to hear how that's not micro-management.

wargames wrote:I'll say this if the plan is to tank next season Rambis makes a ton of sense. If the plan is to go to the playoffs then Vogel makes a lot of sense.

On another note

If Phil get KP and he gets Vogel I legit think we as a fanbase need to stfu going forward. I say this as a fan whose complained with the best of them. If Phil brings KP and Vogel (who fits Phil's system) to NY. While showing he is not going to panic and trade first round picks away to chase a low seed playoff run (like last trade line) is not what we normally get from our GM's. It should in the grand picture make Phil the best Knicks GM..... since Grunfeld by default.

If Phil hires Vogel, I'll stfu.

If Phil hires Rambis and the plan is to try to win games, I'm vocally opposed.

Part of having a good coach comes to attracting Free Agents, too. Rambis isn't going to bring a single guy through the door.

Free Agents want to go to a team they believe they can win with. Having a good coach is part of the sales pitch. It also helps win.

If Phil's plan is to tank again and miss the playoffs for the fourth straight season... ok. He's a patient mastermind if that's his plan.

crzymdups wrote:

wargames wrote:I'll say this if the plan is to tank next season Rambis makes a ton of sense. If the plan is to go to the playoffs then Vogel makes a lot of sense.

On another note

If Phil get KP and he gets Vogel I legit think we as a fanbase need to stfu going forward. I say this as a fan whose complained with the best of them. If Phil brings KP and Vogel (who fits Phil's system) to NY. While showing he is not going to panic and trade first round picks away to chase a low seed playoff run (like last trade line) is not what we normally get from our GM's. It should in the grand picture make Phil the best Knicks GM..... since Grunfeld by default.

If Phil hires Vogel, I'll stfu.

If Phil hires Rambis and the plan is to try to win games, I'm vocally opposed.

this is my view in a nutshell

wargames wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

wargames wrote:I'll say this if the plan is to tank next season Rambis makes a ton of sense. If the plan is to go to the playoffs then Vogel makes a lot of sense.

On another note

If Phil get KP and he gets Vogel I legit think we as a fanbase need to stfu going forward. I say this as a fan whose complained with the best of them. If Phil brings KP and Vogel (who fits Phil's system) to NY. While showing he is not going to panic and trade first round picks away to chase a low seed playoff run (like last trade line) is not what we normally get from our GM's. It should in the grand picture make Phil the best Knicks GM..... since Grunfeld by default.

If Phil hires Vogel, I'll stfu.

If Phil hires Rambis and the plan is to try to win games, I'm vocally opposed.

Part of having a good coach comes to attracting Free Agents, too. Rambis isn't going to bring a single guy through the door.

Free Agents want to go to a team they believe they can win with. Having a good coach is part of the sales pitch. It also helps win.

If Phil's plan is to tank again and miss the playoffs for the fourth straight season... ok. He's a patient mastermind if that's his plan.

If the plan is to tank we fans can complain while tanking though....

If the plan is to win though, yeah KP and Vogel...... That is a lot better than his peers who are trying to do the same thing in a lot of ways. I mean I mentioned Grunfeld who is currently trying to pull a Hail Mary GM play by signing Brooks probably to try and attract Durant. If Phil gets Vogel that means he got a top coach that does what Phil feels he needs from a coach..... while on vacation. He would have all the NY Media eating crow if he pulled that for the whole season.

If Phil hires Vogel from Montana, I will literally kill and eat a crow.