fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Would be great to have a shooter like JR Smith to space the floor in the Triangle. How do we get a guard like that?

Honest answer? Europe. Conventional isn't going to get you that without grossly overpaying.

This guy jumps out at me
http://dailyknicks.com/2016/04/27/new-york-knicks-international-players-worth-pursuing/4/

Maybe a 2 year $14mm deal gets him over here?

And while I am down on Galloway I am not without hope. He has certainly shown he can shoot the 3 at a high rate for extended periods of time. I want to know if this year's way up and way down can be stabilized. Was it mental? Was it mechanical? If we can get LG fixed. He shot 34% from 3 for the year, which I think can certainly be improved on. Kids got a great work ethic. The problem isn't so much the 34% but that at first he hit everything than he hit nothing.

That being said if LG could ever be a good shooter from there... say 38%-40% he would be a really valuable player off the bench. Kind of guy that always gives you full speed defense, will catch some guys sleeping but is mostly a 3&D player. That would be nice... I have some realistic hope. We have seen some good things, but I do not have conviction... just as many dudes show a nice flash and can never get it back and are in Europe a year later.

Another thing is simply swapping out Afflalo (please opt out) with Grant or Wroten, whomever wins the job. My money would be on Grant. He had enough good games this year where I think he can look at tape, dissect what he needs to work on, put the time in and come into camp feeling like he can be a player in this league. If that happens, or is Wroten's healthy and his confidence is justified that gives us a big athletic guard to match up, can slash to the basket and that frees up Jose to spread the floor more and run the offense less. Jose Calderon was 10th in the NBA in shooting the 3.

And that is just looking (hoping) at the upside of the roster.

I think the guy who moves the needle the most is Batum. He's a great ball mover. Can hit the long jumper and 3. Plays a few positions. Can slide to the 3 when Lopez comes out and its Melo/KP up front. Puts a high IQ vet on the floor next to Grant or Wroten and is a spacer for those slashers as well. I just think he's the guy you throw the big cash at.

Batum would be great. Though he really faded in the second half this season. He shouldn't be more than our fourth or fifth best player. Counting on him to be third best is not a good plan. Also, Charlotte had a lot more success with Courtney Lee at SG and Batum at SF. They were actually at their best when the backcourt was Walker and Lin and Lee was their SF and Batum was out. I'd rather chase Lee. He's a better defender at SG/SF.

Jr Smith is feast or famine. He played great in a couple of last yrs ECF games as well. Then the finals came. To ride the jock of JR Smith at this point in his career after he has demonstrated time and time again who he really is. Either is purely to push agenda. Or signs of insanity.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Would be great to have a shooter like JR Smith to space the floor in the Triangle. How do we get a guard like that?

Honest answer? Europe. Conventional isn't going to get you that without grossly overpaying.

This guy jumps out at me
http://dailyknicks.com/2016/04/27/new-york-knicks-international-players-worth-pursuing/4/

Maybe a 2 year $14mm deal gets him over here?

And while I am down on Galloway I am not without hope. He has certainly shown he can shoot the 3 at a high rate for extended periods of time. I want to know if this year's way up and way down can be stabilized. Was it mental? Was it mechanical? If we can get LG fixed. He shot 34% from 3 for the year, which I think can certainly be improved on. Kids got a great work ethic. The problem isn't so much the 34% but that at first he hit everything than he hit nothing.

That being said if LG could ever be a good shooter from there... say 38%-40% he would be a really valuable player off the bench. Kind of guy that always gives you full speed defense, will catch some guys sleeping but is mostly a 3&D player. That would be nice... I have some realistic hope. We have seen some good things, but I do not have conviction... just as many dudes show a nice flash and can never get it back and are in Europe a year later.

Another thing is simply swapping out Afflalo (please opt out) with Grant or Wroten, whomever wins the job. My money would be on Grant. He had enough good games this year where I think he can look at tape, dissect what he needs to work on, put the time in and come into camp feeling like he can be a player in this league. If that happens, or is Wroten's healthy and his confidence is justified that gives us a big athletic guard to match up, can slash to the basket and that frees up Jose to spread the floor more and run the offense less. Jose Calderon was 10th in the NBA in shooting the 3.

And that is just looking (hoping) at the upside of the roster.

I think the guy who moves the needle the most is Batum. He's a great ball mover. Can hit the long jumper and 3. Plays a few positions. Can slide to the 3 when Lopez comes out and its Melo/KP up front. Puts a high IQ vet on the floor next to Grant or Wroten and is a spacer for those slashers as well. I just think he's the guy you throw the big cash at.

Batum would be great. Though he really faded in the second half this season. He shouldn't be more than our fourth or fifth best player. Counting on him to be third best is not a good plan. Also, Charlotte had a lot more success with Courtney Lee at SG and Batum at SF. They were actually at their best when the backcourt was Walker and Lin and Lee was their SF and Batum was out. I'd rather chase Lee. He's a better defender at SG/SF.

If KP has a breakout year and can start playing the 5 full time in year 3 that REALLY opens things up, because you can trade Lopez for a decent draft pick. 29 year old center, durable, great defense with 2 years left on a good contract is a nice trade chip. Max out Westbrook with the extra cap space and your 2017-18 KNicks:
C KP
PF Melo
SF Batum
SG Westbrook
PG Grant
Bench: Wroten, Galloway, Willy, Early... who knows plus you have a nice pick or two from a potential Lopez deal so you have a team that can compete pretty well now in year 4 of Phil and is very future based as well. Of course Westbrook is a long shot, but he's not the only stud FA in that class and I have no doubt we can flip Lopez for pick(s) giving us extra cap space and another chip (aside from our own pick) to draft, move up, etc

If I had a "vision" it would be something like that. My FA goal is get a guy that elevates the play of the rest of the roster. Makes things easier. What we are able to add? I have no idea. Most of the bigname FAs have some real pitfalls. I think Derozan goes to LA. Connley's hammy or achilies or whatever terrifies me. Batum at the max helps us but is lets face it, overpaying. Guys like Bazemore don't move the needle and I don't see the value in overpaying role players. We are not a couple pieces away... so this off season strikes me as having more pitfalls than windfalls. I would almost be happier just trying to improve from within than whiffing on a big name but we will see what Phil does.

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

foosballnick wrote:Knicks attempted almost 250 more threes than the Spurs this year.

the spurs have duncan and parker who just can't hit the 3.

They only take stupid shots

LMA just strokes mid range jumper after mid range jumper.

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:with the triangle you need guys who can shoot the 20 footer.

In truth you want well rounded players that can score from everywhere at a decent level. You don't have to go for a 3pt specialist who can't do much of anything else. Ideally you want players that can create a little, Pass, move without the ball, post, shoot from mid range and from 3 at a decent level. The more versatile the better. It's that simple.

cleveland went 25 for 45 from 3 tonight. Did not say many mid range shots at all ... its a stupid shot.

One game defines your philosophy. impressionable.

one game? take your head out of phil azz and watch what is going on around the league. Oh ... JR smith says hi.

lol, these triangle lovers, swear that it's going to cure all of our woes.

If you don't have at least 2 bigs and 3 smalls, that can knock down 3's at a 34 to 39% clip. your going to be toast on most nights.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Would be great to have a shooter like JR Smith to space the floor in the Triangle. How do we get a guard like that?

Honest answer? Europe. Conventional isn't going to get you that without grossly overpaying.

This guy jumps out at me
http://dailyknicks.com/2016/04/27/new-york-knicks-international-players-worth-pursuing/4/

Maybe a 2 year $14mm deal gets him over here?

And while I am down on Galloway I am not without hope. He has certainly shown he can shoot the 3 at a high rate for extended periods of time. I want to know if this year's way up and way down can be stabilized. Was it mental? Was it mechanical? If we can get LG fixed. He shot 34% from 3 for the year, which I think can certainly be improved on. Kids got a great work ethic. The problem isn't so much the 34% but that at first he hit everything than he hit nothing.

That being said if LG could ever be a good shooter from there... say 38%-40% he would be a really valuable player off the bench. Kind of guy that always gives you full speed defense, will catch some guys sleeping but is mostly a 3&D player. That would be nice... I have some realistic hope. We have seen some good things, but I do not have conviction... just as many dudes show a nice flash and can never get it back and are in Europe a year later.

Another thing is simply swapping out Afflalo (please opt out) with Grant or Wroten, whomever wins the job. My money would be on Grant. He had enough good games this year where I think he can look at tape, dissect what he needs to work on, put the time in and come into camp feeling like he can be a player in this league. If that happens, or is Wroten's healthy and his confidence is justified that gives us a big athletic guard to match up, can slash to the basket and that frees up Jose to spread the floor more and run the offense less. Jose Calderon was 10th in the NBA in shooting the 3.

And that is just looking (hoping) at the upside of the roster.

I think the guy who moves the needle the most is Batum. He's a great ball mover. Can hit the long jumper and 3. Plays a few positions. Can slide to the 3 when Lopez comes out and its Melo/KP up front. Puts a high IQ vet on the floor next to Grant or Wroten and is a spacer for those slashers as well. I just think he's the guy you throw the big cash at.

Batum would be great. Though he really faded in the second half this season. He shouldn't be more than our fourth or fifth best player. Counting on him to be third best is not a good plan. Also, Charlotte had a lot more success with Courtney Lee at SG and Batum at SF. They were actually at their best when the backcourt was Walker and Lin and Lee was their SF and Batum was out. I'd rather chase Lee. He's a better defender at SG/SF.

they are different. Agree on your points about Lee, but I see the same role for Batum, when we go small he goes to the 3, or even the 4 (he reminds me a lot of Diaw). And I think of him less as my 3rd best player, and more of his impact on the rest of the roster. He's a good shooter so he can space the floor. Good for the slashers (Wroten, Grant and DWill if he's back). He's a ball mover and will get a handful of assists swings the ball to the bigs who are shooter (Melo, KP, etc). What I really like about Batum is his impact on the guys around him.

If KP has a breakout year and can start playing the 5 full time in year 3 that REALLY opens things up, because you can trade Lopez for a decent draft pick. 29 year old center, durable, great defense with 2 years left on a good contract is a nice trade chip. Max out Westbrook with the extra cap space and your 2017-18 KNicks:
C KP
PF Melo
SF Batum
SG Westbrook
PG Grant
Bench: Wroten, Galloway, Willy, Early... who knows plus you have a nice pick or two from a potential Lopez deal so you have a team that can compete pretty well now in year 4 of Phil and is very future based as well. Of course Westbrook is a long shot, but he's not the only stud FA in that class and I have no doubt we can flip Lopez for pick(s) giving us extra cap space and another chip (aside from our own pick) to draft, move up, etc

If I had a "vision" it would be something like that. My FA goal is get a guy that elevates the play of the rest of the roster. Makes things easier. What we are able to add? I have no idea. Most of the bigname FAs have some real pitfalls. I think Derozan goes to LA. Connley's hammy or achilies or whatever terrifies me. Batum at the max helps us but is lets face it, overpaying. Guys like Bazemore don't move the needle and I don't see the value in overpaying role players. We are not a couple pieces away... so this off season strikes me as having more pitfalls than windfalls. I would almost be happier just trying to improve from within than whiffing on a big name but we will see what Phil does.

Batum is absolutely not leaving Charlotte and has made that very clear and Charlotte has made it very clear that they're bringing him back.

nixluva wrote:We've gone over this before!!! The Knicks are gonna win in a similar fashion to the Spurs! That's the kind of team Phil is building. It's not gonna be a GS type team. The Spurs can do it and don't tell me we can't eventually match that cuz one day this team could be that type of team. It's not gonna be instantaneous but gradually Phil will have to keep improving the team.

Spurs are who they are because of pop.

why is Portland better with less talent then last yr

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

foosballnick wrote:Knicks attempted almost 250 more threes than the Spurs this year.

the spurs have duncan and parker who just can't hit the 3.

They only take stupid shots

LMA just strokes mid range jumper after mid range jumper.

any shot is a good shot if the shooter can hit it at an efficient enough level to warrant it.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:with the triangle you need guys who can shoot the 20 footer.

In truth you want well rounded players that can score from everywhere at a decent level. You don't have to go for a 3pt specialist who can't do much of anything else. Ideally you want players that can create a little, Pass, move without the ball, post, shoot from mid range and from 3 at a decent level. The more versatile the better. It's that simple.

cleveland went 25 for 45 from 3 tonight. Did not say many mid range shots at all ... its a stupid shot.

No one said you can't shoot 3's in the Triangle, but it's not the only way to play efficient ball. The Warriors are an all time Team so we can't judge everything off of only them. I compared the top 5 teams in Offensive Rating from this year with Phil's last Lakers teams of 2007-08 thru 2010-11. Aside from the Warriors the top offensive teams this year and Phil's Lakers teams were pretty close offensively even tho those old teams did things differently.

Fewer PnR's and fewer 3's for those Lakers teams but they got more scoring at the rim and took more FT's. Seems that with minor tweaks to the percentage of 3's shot and a slightly faster pace, that it's possible for a team playing the Triangle to be competitive in today's NBA.

	                                                Advanced		 Offense Four Factors	                   Defense Four Factors	
Rk  Team	     Age   PW PL  MOV    SOS   SRS	ORtg ▾	DRtg	Pace	FTr  3PAr TS%	eFG%	TOV% ORB% FT/FGA   eFG%	TOV%  DRB%  FT/FGA
1   Warriors* 15-16  27.4  65 17  10.76 -0.38 10.38	114.5	103.8	99.3	.250 .362 .593	.563	13.5 23.5 .191	   .479	12.6  76.0  .208	
2   Thunder*         25.8  59 23  7.28  -0.19  7.09	113.1	105.6	96.7	.292 .275 .565	.524	14.0 31.1 .228	   .484	11.7  76.0  .205	
3   Cavaliers*	     28.1  57 25  6.00  -0.55  5.45	110.9	104.5	93.3	.259 .352 .558	.524	12.7 25.1 .194	   .496	12.6  78.5  .205
4   Spurs*	     30.3  67 15  10.63 -0.36 10.28	110.3	99.0	93.8	.246 .223 .564	.526	12.4 23.0 .197	   .477	14.1  79.1  .182	
5   Raptors*	     26.3  53 29  4.50  -0.42  4.08	110.0	105.2	92.9	.328 .287 .552	.504	12.3 24.6 .255	   .498	12.7  77.7  .201
League Average	     26.8  41 41  0.00   0.00  0.00	106.4	106.4	95.8	.276 .285 .541	.502	13.2 23.8 .209	   .502	13.2  76.2  .209
		                                        Advanced		 Offense Four Factors	                    Defense Four Factors	
Rk  Team	     Age   PW PL  MOV    SOS   SRS	ORtg ▾	DRtg	Pace	FTr  3PAr TS%	eFG%	TOV% ORB%  FT/FGA   eFG% TOV% DRB%  FT/FGA
6   Lakers*   10-11  30.2  58 24  6.11  -0.10  6.01	111.0	104.3	90.7	.293 .220 .545	.502	12.3 29.2  .228	   .477	12.8  72.3  .181
11  Lakers*   09-10  28.4  54 28  4.72   0.06  4.78	108.8	103.7	92.8	.289 .227 .538	.496	12.4 27.6  .221	   .484	13.2  74.4  .195
3   Lakers*   08-09  27.4  61 21  7.66  -0.55  7.11	112.8	104.7	94.3	.299 .217 .555	.513	12.3 29.4  .230	   .490	14.2  73.0  .213
3   Lakers*   07-08  26.7  59 23  7.26   0.09  7.34	113.0	105.5	95.6	.333 .257 .570	.525	12.9 26.3  .256	   .485	12.9  73.4  .214

Interesting stuff

MaTT4281 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Would be great to have a shooter like JR Smith to space the floor in the Triangle. How do we get a guard like that?

You have to put up with crap like the below.

I wish this was even all of the things I could cite on JR. There's just too many to post!

If you ever find yourself missing him, feel free to do a quick Google search for "JR Smith fined", "JR Smith suspended", or ****, "JR Smith arrested" and you'll have multiple stories for each.

J.R. Smith, the Knicks guard with a history of legal troubles, was arrested in Miami Beach on Thursday for failing to appear in court on a traffic matter.

Smith, 26, was cited in May 2011 for operating a scooter without a valid driver’s license and was ordered to stand trial on July 25. When he failed to show, a bench warrant was issued for his arrest

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/26/sports/basketball/jr-smith-arrested-in-miami-beach.html?_r=0

Smith's tiff with Woodson on Monday night, earlier reported by the New York Daily News, was the latest instance of friction between Smith and the Knicks organization this season.

He was fined $50,000 by the NBA last week for his attempts to untie two opponents' shoelaces in recent games. That led to Woodson benching the 28-year-old in the Knicks' next game -- a nationally televised win over the Miami Heat.

Smith also was suspended for the first five games of the regular season for violating the league's anti-drug policy over the summer. In November, he was fined $25,000 for sending a threatening message to Detroit's Brandon Jennings on Twitter after Jennings questioned the NBA credentials of Smith's brother, Chris.

The Knicks released Chris Smith in late December to make room for free-agent big man Jeremy Tyler. Multiple sources say Smith is angry over the team's decision to cut his brother. He hinted at his displeasure with the situation at the time with a post on social media.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/10299083/jr-smith-mike-woodson-had-heated-run-monday-night