ChuckBuck wrote:

franco12 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's the reason why were not in the playoffs. We all know that.

I'm just saying.... can we become successful from within with Grant and Wroten? I'm fully expecting Grant to be a starter next year right out the gate. I also expect Wroten to come back next season with a vengeance. Both guys are 6'5" & 6'6" respectively. Defensively they can compete. Offensively, how can you stop either guy from getting in the paint? Rolo, KP and Melo ate great passing targets.

Do we haverour best 5 already on the roster?
KP, Melo, Rolo, Grant and Wroten? KP has got to get up to 18pts per game next year. Melo should be about 20. Rolo should get about 12. If Grant and Wroten can both get at least 12 per game withgooddefense... how good can we be?

You need guys who can shoot it

Sure they have to hit shots but a lot of what they do is gonna come from breaking down the D and getting to the rim or dishing. Not to mention more fast breaks. I agree with EnySpree on the general idea of going forward with big combo guards.

Free Agency will hopefully give us another dynamic guard. IMO it's THE missing element for this team. Even this year when we got halfway decent guard play the team was competitive. Just imagine a better upgrade at the guard spots next year.

sadly, the way this plays out is we do upgrade the back court, and end up winning mid to high 30s, ensuring our draft pick is back end of the lottery- good enough for perhaps a solid bench player.

And then we end up stuck there, while KP and the youth get better, our older veterans- Rolo & Melo, continue to get older and produce diminished results.

And in 5 years, we've won nothing, and not added any franchise changing talent.

This guy. He gets it.

Only viable way out of the dark ages is to tank to get KP's Robin to his Batman. He's not on the roster yet.

So KP's Robin would be a solid bench player because that's what your friend has us getting if we tank?? Yep he gets it....hahaha

crzymdups wrote:I like Grant and Wroten - but Briggs is right - we need shooters. The good thing about Grant and Wroten is they can penetrate. But without shooters to spread the floor, the D can sag off those guys in the pick and roll and dare them to shoot.

I agree 100%, we need at least one guard that can shoot the shyt out of the ball and two would be nice. So maybe getting a C.Lee or PJ Hairston or J.Bayless would be a big help cause we don't have any guards besides Calderon that can really shoot the rock.

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I like Grant and Wroten - but Briggs is right - we need shooters. The good thing about Grant and Wroten is they can penetrate. But without shooters to spread the floor, the D can sag off those guys in the pick and roll and dare them to shoot.

Its going top be so hard to replicate what GS has. I watched Michigan State all year and that why I loved Valentine and Forbes so much--they play a similar chemistry branded version of Golden State with guys who shoot well over 40% from 3 who move the ball. In fact my whole schmeal about guys who I wanted in the draft and NBA acquisition are all based on Golden State/ San Antonio

Valentine--PG/G version of Dray Green with less D
Forbes-- Poor mans SG version of a back up SG Curry
McCaw--version of Shaun Livingston
Derrick Jones--version of Andre Igudola
Daniel Ochefu--version of Fetsus Ezeli

Pros

Seth Curry--version of Steph Curry
Gasol--triangle master better version of Bogut
Bazemore--better version of Branden Rush

Were not winning big next year--I mean we can win but it takes time in the NBA to get real good. Look at really good teams chemistry--that takes atleast two years to build up.

Replicating what GSW has is almost impossible. S.Curry is the greatest shooter EVER and another player even close to Steph won't be around for a long time and guys like Klay and Draymond don't get the amount of respect they deserve because so much of GSW's attention goes to Steph but Klay and especially Draymond are stars. Draymond doesn't have a weak part to his game and finding a player like him is almost as impossible as it would be to find another Steph.

We need better guards but we won't be able to find guards like GSW has so there's no reason to try to replicate what they have and would rather go the way of finding defenders that can play up on guys like Steph and Klay to take away the 3 ball as much as you can anyway which with Steph is also almost impossible because of the ridiculous range he has.

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I like Grant and Wroten - but Briggs is right - we need shooters. The good thing about Grant and Wroten is they can penetrate. But without shooters to spread the floor, the D can sag off those guys in the pick and roll and dare them to shoot.

I agree 100%, we need at least one guard that can shoot the shyt out of the ball and two would be nice. So maybe getting a C.Lee or PJ Hairston or J.Bayless would be a big help cause we don't have any guards besides Calderon that can really shoot the rock.

Yeah, I think we need at least two SGs who can really shoot it. And then a competent third big man. I'm starting to think KOQ and Seraphin cost us way too many games with their ****ty play last season.

Bayless, Allen Crabbe, Courtney Lee - if we could sign those three and then maybe add a third big man like David Lee or Pau Gasol? Could we get those guys for a combined $35M? Maaaaaybe? Who knows.

I would be more than happy if we could add those 3 guards along with D.Lee and would really love getting P.Gasol but i see no way that he would chose to play his last couple of years for the Knicks when he's have his choices from the Spurs, GSW and whichever other team that's ready to make a championship run right away and i believe all of the top teams will be calling him. D.Lee could certainly help us as well as maybe a I.Mahimi and a few other bigs that will be out there, if we get Vogel then i really can see us going after Mahimi.

Actually Pau may not have a choice of going to one of those teams. Not every top team is gonna be looking to add Pau. It all depends on the plan of each team and what they think they need for the next few years. There's a small chance it could happen.

newyorker4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

franco12 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's the reason why were not in the playoffs. We all know that.

I'm just saying.... can we become successful from within with Grant and Wroten? I'm fully expecting Grant to be a starter next year right out the gate. I also expect Wroten to come back next season with a vengeance. Both guys are 6'5" & 6'6" respectively. Defensively they can compete. Offensively, how can you stop either guy from getting in the paint? Rolo, KP and Melo ate great passing targets.

Do we haverour best 5 already on the roster?
KP, Melo, Rolo, Grant and Wroten? KP has got to get up to 18pts per game next year. Melo should be about 20. Rolo should get about 12. If Grant and Wroten can both get at least 12 per game withgooddefense... how good can we be?

You need guys who can shoot it

Sure they have to hit shots but a lot of what they do is gonna come from breaking down the D and getting to the rim or dishing. Not to mention more fast breaks. I agree with EnySpree on the general idea of going forward with big combo guards.

Free Agency will hopefully give us another dynamic guard. IMO it's THE missing element for this team. Even this year when we got halfway decent guard play the team was competitive. Just imagine a better upgrade at the guard spots next year.

sadly, the way this plays out is we do upgrade the back court, and end up winning mid to high 30s, ensuring our draft pick is back end of the lottery- good enough for perhaps a solid bench player.

And then we end up stuck there, while KP and the youth get better, our older veterans- Rolo & Melo, continue to get older and produce diminished results.

And in 5 years, we've won nothing, and not added any franchise changing talent.

This guy. He gets it.

Only viable way out of the dark ages is to tank to get KP's Robin to his Batman. He's not on the roster yet.

So KP's Robin would be a solid bench player because that's what your friend has us getting if we tank?? Yep he gets it....hahaha

No - my point is winning this coming year with marginal improvement nets us a solid bench player.

I think there are some that would like to tank properly so we can add a super star type talent.

Though they use the Triangle principles "more for floor spacing and using it to pass instead of scoring" with tweaks
As I have said when Phil Jackson came here, the league has changed with "small ball" along with the HELP DEFENSE/Zones that Shaq did not have to go through
Along with more skilled players/shooters/versatile talents in ALL positions

NixLuva always is always POSITIVE, however, his opinions are not opinions, they will be positive thoughts regardless
We do not have the talent to execute the 11 rings that Phil Jackson had

Phil Jackson has taken cheap shots since CA resigned here (not sure if he is looking to try force him to waive his NTC)
This has cause a rift between the 2 along with the belief in the Triangle, as they lack talent to execute it
The Triangle is a system that can be good but it isn't for a rebuilding team and it is not the only system that allows better team play
Phil Jackson seems to be more in proving the Triangle than doing what is best for the Knick's

The talent that he had to execute the system is far more important than the development of the Triangle itself
We simply are not there yet, we need to acquire the talent first, then build chemistry/re learn the system, till then we need to acquire more talents whether through the Draft, continued development players, as well as our continued development

We need to improve our development coaches and trainers as it will be a long process, as we will be unable to sign TOP TIER FA's, despite the rise of the cap and the UFA's available these next 2 summers
However, our time is limited, before KP earns his future extension to be able to build a team together
Or starphuking by trading KP for lets say Cousins or whatever....

We can possibly look to trade CA if we are unable to contend for the better for CA and The Knicks, along with ANY contract that can yield us salary cap space and draft picks, including Robin Lopez/KOQ, and any future signings as a process...
It took Golden State many years after, can range from 5-8years +

1- Drafting Curry
2- drafting they still had to draft Klay Thompson
3- Feztiz Ezili/Draymond Green, Harrison Barnes
4- along with trading Monta for Bogut
5- and then signing both Iggy and Livingston...

6- Then on TOP OF ALL THAT, they had Mark Jackson developing the players for a couple of years, got them to play and develop their DEFENSE

7- and finally, Kerr simply took them to another level after that, however, EVERY STEP prior to this took time and some luck with the draft, along with *OWNING draft picks for this to happen*

We are in phase 1 of this however, Phil Jackson has been stubborn with the development of The Triangle despite not having enough talent to execute it effectively or having enough quality DEFENDERS to even become a play off contender, do not even talk about a contender for a RING
After we acquire such talents and IF IT FITS, then that is when running the Triangle would make sense (if we have the talent able to do so, until then we are just making our players losing faith in the system itself

We should also upgrade our development coaches and trainers during this time
With Scott Brooks going to Washington, we may lose some of the assistant coaches that Fisher recruited with him

Give Pau Gasol a heads up that he could be targetted for a future HC gig so he can prepare for it when it times, especially if he plays for the Spurs possibly for a year or 2, joining Robert Horry, Steve Kerr, as former players that have played for both HOF Coaches as many HOF talents in players with different styles of leadership

Maybe going for some Triangle Disciples, Brian Shaw, Fick Fox, Odom, Bynum *maybe if we can a LEGIT Center to work with*, maybe Pau Gasol as a future HC that could also help develop KP in the system when he is stronger, especially if he signs with The Spurs to play 1-2 more seasons or even just some skilled former players such as

Billups
Rasheed Wallace
Jermaine Oneil

Battier for DEFENSE and adjusting to the NCAA to NBA transition along with the different roles he plays as a player from SG to PF, after being a PF/C #1 goto man in Duke

Trainers that have been proven to work with similar talents that we would have like trainers for Dirk, KG, Anthony Davis, Pau Gasol, Rasheed Wallace
CP3 and Steph Curry both have the same trainer

They have done this many times during the past 2 seasons and it is due to the versatile talents that they have on BOTH OFF and DEF
I was hoping Phil Jackson would have recognized this to get Luke Walton on a HUGE CONTRACT, 2-3x's more than what The Lakers offered, which would have improved our "ability to attract talents with the UFA's available these next couple of seasons with EVERY TEAM having much more cap space"

the 12m Phil Jackson is making should be going to Luke Walton as he clearly understands how the league has changed and how to play with the changes, while still running and utilizing philosophies of the Triangle and adjusting to the talent he has to work with...

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I like Grant and Wroten - but Briggs is right - we need shooters. The good thing about Grant and Wroten is they can penetrate. But without shooters to spread the floor, the D can sag off those guys in the pick and roll and dare them to shoot.

I agree 100%, we need at least one guard that can shoot the shyt out of the ball and two would be nice. So maybe getting a C.Lee or PJ Hairston or J.Bayless would be a big help cause we don't have any guards besides Calderon that can really shoot the rock.

These guys you mention arent good shooters for goodness sake--just shtty retreads?? Seth Curry up and coming 45% 3 pt shooter good passer. With Melo KP Lopez no one will be able to pay attention to him and he spreads the floor to 30 feet so those guys will have a lot of room. Same thing with Valentine Forbes. But we need a lot we need two athletic 6-6 6-7 guards in addition for some defense and easy buckets. We need like 4 guards mininum new.